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Descartes’s proof of the cogito

שו”תCategory: generalDescartes’s proof of the cogito
asked 7 years ago

Hello Rabbi,
I am currently reading your book Truth and Unstable (great so far) and am now on page 100 where you raise the objection to Descartes’ Godito argument by saying that it is not necessary to claim that I think because the opposite of I think is simply not to think and in any case it is not necessary that I think. But, doesn’t that still leave the argument valid when I think or when I think that I am not thinking (and only then)?
Another question: Isn’t it possible to reject Descartes’ argument from another direction, from the direction of the deceptive demon – that is, maybe it is what makes me perceive myself as a thinker? Maybe everything is actually an illusion (and it is true that there is a “who” who completes it, but this “who” is also just an illusion of the deceptive demon, and in fact, the world is empty and does not exist at all)?
 


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מיכי Staff answered 7 years ago
Yes, but it is no longer necessary because in principle it is possible for a person to never think. The question of the deceiving demon cannot attack logic. Beyond that, the question is who is the demon deceiving? Whom does he make think he is thinking?

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אריאל replied 7 years ago

That is, since Descartes tried to base reality on something that cannot be doubted, since it is hypothetical (although I have never met a person who does not think at all - it seems that every person, no matter who they are, thinks at some level) can it be doubted - he lost the proof?

Regarding the second part of the question:
Why can't the deceptive demon attack logic?? Isn't that all his claim is that maybe the answer to 1+1 is dictated to me by the deceptive demon?

מיכי Staff replied 7 years ago

You need to distinguish between a reasonable argument and a proof. If you are looking for probability, there is no need for a cogito. Everyone understands that it exists even without proof. Descartes tried to bring an argument that forces us to reach this conclusion with certainty. What I argued is that there is no certainty here. You keep saying that there is a high probability and no one argues that they think from time to time. Indeed, that is true. To the same extent, there is a high probability that I exist. I have not met anyone who argues about that either.

I asked you the question of who is the demon deceiving? If I do not exist (as you want to claim), then the deceiving does not exist because there is no one being deceived. And in any case, there is no reason to assume that there is a deceiving demon. Therefore, I exist. Prov.

אריאל replied 7 years ago

I don't want to argue anything. Just asking to understand.
I didn't understand your response that the deceptive demon cannot attack ”logic”? What did you mean by the term “logic”?

מיכי Staff replied 7 years ago

If you make an argument against logic, you have destroyed the possibility of discourse in general (because it takes place within logic). Yes, the argument of a deceiving demon about logic is nothing more than an oxymoron. This is Descartes' cogito argument itself, that even if you think that a demon is deceiving you, you are thinking, and hence that you exist and that there is thinking (=logic).
Likewise, the deceiving demon cannot be a reason to deny my existence because then he has no one to deceive.

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