Haredim, Army and Work

So we come to the question, why don't the Haredim establish companies that are 100 percent suitable for them? If they need conditions adapted to spiritual work, then they should be 100 percent suitable. After all, even during the time of the Bible, there was a religious army in the people of Israel.
On the Hidabrot website, I was exposed to information for the question of why the Haredim don't form an army - one of the reasons is that the senior military officials do not want the Haredim in the army and oppose their conscription because they do not want the army to become a Teshuvah movement. Because if the senior military officials did not oppose this, it means that the Haredim would establish companies that are 100 percent suitable. The question is how can we know that this information is reliable enough? If the army opposes the conscription of Haredim as a principle, then it contradicts everything I knew about Haredim-army relations.

There are Haredi/Hardalite units that are 100% adapted to a very strict Haredi lifestyle
Anyone who wants to serve the people can serve there.

Anyone who wants to not serve submits a paper that says he is registered in some yeshiva and he studies and his Torah is his art

Of course, even if he is a pizza delivery man, he also submits it even if he violates Shabbat, even if he is just a criminal or a bum, and no one asks him even if he is the address of the yeshiva in whose name he is submitting the declaration even if he is not where the dining room is or what are the names of the rabbis in the institution or maybe what tractate is currently being studied there.

Nothing, nothing.
Needless to say, the institution (yeshiva) that gives him this paper receives many hundreds of shekels every month from the State of Israel for the fact that he is registered there

This is from the Ministry of Religious Affairs

But there are many other state bodies that give money to this joke.
For example, the estates committee and all sorts of other things.

Shalom Rabbi
I heard from a Haredi kollel head a slightly different argument. He argued as follows: Ostensibly, if they established companies and educational institutions that truly fit the Haredi lifestyle, there would be no fear that they would deteriorate because it is in complete isolation from the secular public. The reason they do not establish them is because of the fear that many will pursue these paths and then there will not be enough Torah students whose Torah is their art, as is the case in the national religious public. That's all for the argument.
What does the Rabbi think about this argument?
Are there any facts that refute this argument?

Their fear is not only of the secular but of secularism. Every encounter with general education and life outside, even if it is conducted according to Haredi standards, threatens them. That is clear.
The idea that there will not be enough Torah students is nonsense, of course. There are enough, far too many. Their fear is that people will leave Harediism (and also religious commitment in general).

53% of ultra-Orthodox men work. Isn't that called encountering life outside? Why is there greater concern among them about education?

I didn't understand why the Haredim are afraid of military service even if the lifestyle in the army is conducted 100 percent according to the spirit of the Torah? What fear of secularism is there in an army that is conducted 100 percent according to the conditions of the Torah? I'm not saying that they have to study core studies in order to enlist. I'm saying that a Haredi who enlists also studies Torah and mainly other matters in the army, but not in order to study core studies. The question comes up again, if the lifestyle in the army is 100 percent adapted to the Haredim, then apparently it's not right to say we are afraid of secularism. Even during the time of the Bible, there was an army. I ask out of ignorance, for now I don't accept the claim that the Haredim are “afraid” From secularism and that's why they don't enlist. What would they do if there weren't seculars in the Land of Israel who enlist to protect against terrorist attacks? After all, in principle, if the Haredim don't have an army, it's impossible to be properly protected. In principle, it's impossible to say in this case that we should rely on a miracle that there won't be attacks without protection. If there's an answer that explains the issue, I'd love to hear it.

The question of why don't they go to the army is divided into 3 questions (as follows):
1. Why doesn't an individual Haredi serve in the army?
2. Why don't rabbis/activists arrange a Haredi camp that would be completely Haredi (different from today) for a Haredi group?
3. Why don't all Haredi get together and organize a group in the army that all Haredi would go to?
Answers:
1. Because he fears a decline in his spiritual level, and rightly so.
2. Because some rabbis cannot control what happens in a Haredi group in the army, and it is clear that the great interest of bodies much more powerful than those rabbis (- to change the Haredi identity) will increase when they are in the army.
3. If all Haredi rabbis/activists get together for this purpose, they will be able to impose a Haredi lifestyle on a group in the army (Rach”l…). But:
1. The army is not interested in such a situation.
2. Some of the Haredim are not interested, because of the value of the Torah/lack of motivation to bear the burden/the value of tzimtzum, and so on
Of course, these are things that are said ‘under the table’

Once they do the army, the path to employment and education is open to them. And the fact that 53% work is not necessarily in places where there is an encounter with secular people, and it starts at a late age and without schooling and when there is a family. In other words, the guy is already closed and signed and everything is fine.

Rabbi, what do you mean by having enough Torah students? How is that measured? They will tell you that there aren't enough, you need a thousand more and a thousand more.

The way to measure this is complicated and not unambiguous. But the minimum criterion is that only those who are suitable for it should study. If there are students who are not suitable, then it is too much. Even if only those who are suitable are studied, we must examine whether some of them are not more suitable for other directions. And even if not, after that we must examine whether the economy does not need some of them in other industries, and in certain situations there is definitely room to send some of them to another career.

Rabbi, thank you for your response.
I am left with more questions of my own:
1. The claim of that Rosh Kollel is that even those who are more suited to Torah study will pursue other paths. What would you answer him about that?
2. Maimonides says that one must stay away from bad company in order to be influenced by them because it is human nature to the point of going to the desert if there is no other choice. I heard in the name of the Chazon Ish that today's desert is the yeshivot. In light of these things, is it not legitimate that the Haredim do not want to be in the company of the secular in order to not be influenced by them?

You don't build a state on the assumption that it will last. Maybe that's true, but it's a risk that has to be taken. The price paid is too great.
Everything is legitimate. As long as they finance themselves and don't become a burden on the public. Whoever wants to build a society of monks, let them be ashamed, at their own expense. In my opinion, it's also wrong to build such a society, because the Torah was not given to the ministering angels. But that's a different debate.

If you can expand on this, I would be happy.
Why is it not right for you to establish such a company?
Why wasn't the Torah given to ministering angels?

My words are detailed in many places here on the site and in general. The Torah is supposed to exist in a healthy and diverse society and not in the company of monks. We have no monasteries or monks. The dangers of such a healthy life are that there may be more falls, but this is the meaning of bringing the Torah down to the ground of this world. And this is my use of the phrase “Torah was not given to the ministering angels” in this context.
The Torah deals with charity and the management of society, and agriculture and all other aspects of the world. A society of monks-scholars is not related to the world and all these aspects.

Hello. Regarding what you said, that the very act of serving in the army opens up additional employment and education options, and the fear that arises from this is that there will be a sharp and rapid decline in Torah students. Is it possible to block these options completely? And simply direct everything in the best way?

I didn't understand the question.

I meant to say, quoting from your words, that the Haredi establishment does not want there to be an open path for Haredim to paths such as secular education and employment during military service, also so that there will not be a sharp decline in the number of Torah students. My question is - is it possible to completely prevent any opening for education and employment during military service for Haredim, and then the Haredim will not have the claim that secularism may take over them.

I don't know. I'm not a corporate consultant.