Is an agnostic religious consciousness really possible?
Good week
First, I will start by saying that my goal is not to quibble and argue, but again, like last time, to point out a point that bothers me in your teaching.
In your very interesting book, True and Stable, you have a position on many points. I don’t remember them all in detail, but the things that bothered me and bothered me are the following:
The main danger and the root from which religious fanaticism and acts of violence in the name of religion develop is not a misinterpreted and simplistic interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, but the perception that all the truth is mine and I am certainly right.
2 The root of postmodernism is the assumption that certainty cannot be achieved and therefore everyone has their own truth and in fact there is no objective truth at all.
3 The conclusion and this is what bothers me – that there is no certainty and in the 27th century there is a truth that must be aimed at
Apparently. A Jew. Who keeps 23 commandments and dedicates his life to the Torah. Can he live from a consciousness of religious agnosticism? In such a consciousness, in fact, I do not know at all what God wants. Does He want me to keep the commandments in their entirety or not? I do not know if I will receive a reward and stand. And in fact, I do not even know if God exists at all.
This approach. In fact, it assumes. And entails. A reference to God not as an entity with which we have a certain connection. And whom we worship. And also expect that as a result of our worship of Him we will fix the world. We will receive a reward. Or we will correct a flaw in the behavior of the Bedouins in the world and we will allow ourselves to be His servants – but. It creates a situation in which we actually fulfill a categorical imperative from the beginning in which we say: If God exists, it is reasonable to assume that He wants us to keep the commandments. If so, it turns out that we do not truly live in the consciousness of the worshipers of God. God, the Blessed One, is an existing being. Realistic. With desires and demands. Rather, they work more for the “truth” or fulfill the aspiration to aim for the truth. This approach also leads, in my humble opinion, to a kind of consciousness of light or light-hearted religiosity – if I am not sure that God truly expects me to fulfill 33 commandments and on the other hand I am much more certain of other duties – to volunteer to help the weak and to be faithful to my people. To take care of my mental health – why, as a homeowner, would I simply not go out to a bar on Motzeshim and during the week. I will spend the rest of my time volunteering in hospitals. And I will leave Torah study in a small corner of setting times for 3 hours a week. Along with observing Shabbat, basic prayers and kosher?
Isn’t it difficult to raise great scholars from this approach, a generation imbued with the fear of God and love of the Torah?
Of course, these things are not directed against your personality. You do manage to be great in Torah and invest your whole life in the search for truth, even if you are in doubt. I am talking about the average cases.
And another question. Why do you reject. The approach that says that faith from God begins with reason. With rationality and uncertainty. But then. By acquiring the fear of God and delving into the Torah. Does a person gain the ability to have his soul filled with the fear of God and a deep spiritual connection with the Lord of the world? There is a lot of evidence of knowledge (not experience, there is a difference). Of Kabbalists and great intellectuals. That their souls were simply connected to the Lord of the world. If God gave the Torah. And commanded duties. Isn’t it reasonable to assume that He would have given us a way to reach certainty in His existence?
I understood almost nothing here (and I also don’t know what “last time” was). I will address a few points that I may have understood.
- When I say there is no certainty, I am not talking about skepticism. Skepticism means complete ignorance (any alternative is equivalent to its opposite). Uncertainty just means that the truth in my opinion is not certain to me (90% rather than 50%).
- You are mixing arguments on the merits with educational questions (how will we succeed in worshipping God, or growing in Torah). These questions do not concern the truth.
- I cannot deny a claim that I do not understand. Spiritual connections and knowledge of Kabbalists that is not in the mind are terms that I do not understand.
Rabbi, I am not the one asking, but I would be happy for you to address the rest of his words, which are not yet clear to me in your opinion either. Of course, the question is the amount of certainty and how the person wants to act, but still:
How do you think this reconciles:
“A consciousness of light or light religiosity - if I am not sure that God truly expects me to fulfill 23 commandments and on the other hand I am much more certain of other obligations…. And I will leave Torah study in a small corner of setting times for 3 hours a week. Along with observing Shabbat, basic prayers and kosher? .
Is it not difficult to raise great scholars from this approach. A generation that is imbued with the fear of God and the love of Torah?”
7”a How does a feeling of aspiration for ”one hundred percent” religiosity reconcile with skepticism (from the word doubt) about the very correctness of religion.
The question is how unsure you are. People give their lives for all sorts of things, even if they are unsure of them. Therefore, I do not see a difficulty here. Indeed, it is likely that with such a consciousness there will be fewer Torah scholars. So what? Is that why this perception is incorrect? Or do we have to lie to ourselves that we can reach certainty in order to produce Torah scholars?
I do not understand this discussion.
You first say that you didn't understand anything and according to the answers I see that you did understand more or less.
1 If you think that 90 percent of the law is binding and God exists, there is no big disagreement between us
2 I'm not talking about an educational question specifically. But rather about the expectations that can be asked of a person once he decides on an uncertain consciousness in the service of God
3 So why declare that it is not possible to reach certainty in faith but only to say that I was unable to reach certainty in faith or rather most people are unable to reach certainty (there is evidence of Sartre in this context who in the end said that he lived in an atheistic consciousness but knows that the Torah is true. )
You wrote a complete scroll here from which I understood a few fragments of sentences. And if you think I did, you could have spared most of what you wrote and tried to be clearer.
1-2. See my answer to K.
3. Surprisingly and unexpectedly, I write that certainty cannot be reached through faith because in my opinion certainty cannot be reached through faith (and nothing else).
3 So in your opinion, did both Hari and Rabbi Kook, who claimed to have experienced prophetic enlightenment, not fully experience it?
And this is not an appeal to authority for a great argument or a rebuke for not accepting their testimony, but a real question
And something else
People give their lives for a country, a society, a family, a partner - that is, for certain spiritual loves, not for metaphysical values, so it's different
I am not at all sure that there are such testimonies of the Ar”i and the Ra”a, and even if they do, what exactly do they mean. Rebel I tend to see these phenomena as subjective experiences of various kinds (including hallucinations). Of course I cannot rule out a priori things that I do not know. Everything is possible, but I highly doubt it.
Regarding the last division, I do not see what it matters. A person who develops love for God will give his life even without certainty. And on the other hand, there is a giving of one's life for communism, black rights, national rights, none of these are spiritual loves.
I think we have exhausted.
Rabbi, I will ask the annoying question, but I would be happy if you have a systematic approach, what seems to you to be the correct way of deciding on Kabbalah – in terms of the level of persuasion, the level of religious enlightenment, the difficulty and pragmatist significance, doing the truth for the sake of the truth in its own name and everything:
For subjective religious certainty in a world where there is no objective certainty.
I don't have
Leave a Reply
Please login or Register to submit your answer
