Mortality ages in biblical times

See the commentaries on Noah's Parsha. In chapter 8 after the flood. From Levi”em and more…

Here you will find interesting answers to the subject.

To the question itself, there are several rishon who suggest that these ages are not of individuals but of dynasties or tribes that existed hundreds of years before the flood. I will add an unfamiliar innovation, briefly, that Methuselah's years must have been 969 because the flood occurred later. That is, he died in the flood. R’ Yehuda the Hassid in his commentary on the Torah, the pharmacist, adds and says that even the fathers of the world did not live one day of God, the Blessed One, nor did they reach a thousand years (for one day in your eyes is as a thousand years…) and not even in lunar years. He therefore writes that Methuselah lived 969 years and no more, because when converted to lunar years, this amounts to exactly 999 years. (A solar year has 365 days in a year, and a lunar year has 354 days, as is known) Solar years and lunar years coincide during the flood (the flood began on February 17 and ended on February 27, so that it would encompass a full year of 365 days, which is 11 days more than the lunar year, but all the dates in between during the flood are dated according to the months of Leviathan and Akmel). The number 365 years itself is implied twice: in the years of Enoch (the father of that Methuselah who is dated in lunar years precisely – note the father with the shortest life versus the father with the longest life) who died at the age of 365. And also the number of years that passed from the birth of the new dynasty: There he gave birth two years after the flood, and if we count from this mysterious date until the revelation to Abraham when he was 75 years old, we see that exactly 365 years have passed. Indeed: ”Who is the city from the east of the sun”. Abraham's sunrise was counted as the number of solar years since the birth of the new dynasty after the flood. (Another point is that if we count from the new dynasty not until the revelation to Abraham but until his birth, 75 years earlier, the number comes to 290 years (what does this mean?), and it accurately predicts the total number of years that will pass from the birth of Abraham until Jacob's entry into exile in Egypt: (100+60+130). However, if we count again from the revelation to Abraham/his entry into Canaan until Jacob's entry into Egypt, 215 years pass (75-290), which is exactly half of the years of slavery in Egypt: 430 years (which according to Chazal is counted as double years, in fact, we would have 215 years, or 215 years (A.D. Mikra in the summary of the Exodus). Biblical scholars have insisted that the Babylonians knew the days of the circumambulation of the five stars of the constellation Leo, and when we examine the ages of the patriarchs of the world, they come to exactly According to star combinations of this type. The astronomer Ariel Cohen has shown in several of his articles that both the date from the stamp in 1656 and the ages of the patriarchs of the world coincide with all kinds of astronomical phenomena related to the Hebrew calendar, but his calculations are complex and understandable only to those who know. (By the way, the number of days in 1656 is the same as the number of seconds in the seven days of creation, 84,600, but it is a bit long to explain this here. The idea is that a new creation begins, indeed, only after the flood) It is clear that these ages encode all kinds of codes, and I have several comprehensive articles in English on this subject, which I will send to anyone who is interested. Finally, note the numerological phenomenon in the lives of the three patriarchs:

Schildenberger’6′ has been credited with the observation that the three ages(d) form the regular pattern:
Abraham: 175 = 7 x (5 x 5)
Isaac: 180 = 5 x (6 x 6)
Jacob: 147 = 3 x (7 x 7)
Labuschagne and Vawter both point out that this may be derived from the number 17:’62
159 ibid. 287; author’s italics.
160 Cassuto 1 961: 280
161 According to Gevirtz (1977: 570), quoting J. Meysing 'The Biblical Chronologies of the Patriarchs’ Christian News from Israel 14 (1963) p26f.
7 + 5 + 5 = 17
5 + 6 + 6 = 17
3 + 7 + 7 = 17
Gevirtz commented that the age of Joseph could be seen as following a similar pattern: i.e. 110 = 1 x (52 + 62 + 72);’63 and Williams, after reviewing a number of links between Joseph and the patriarchs and matriarchs, suggested that the pattern showed that ‘Joseph is the
Anyone who has read this far, and would be interested in taking the time to study this complex issue together, while reading the relevant articles – please contact me and maybe we can get something written about it.

I will add that there is a commentator who dealt in a very comprehensive way with the meaning of these ages - and he is unknown and not even used in the world of research for all sorts of historical and unintentional reasons - and he is Ben Yaakov. However, his books on the subject are written only in German. If there is anyone who reads German and wants to go over the things, may the blessing come upon him and upon us.

It is interesting. By the way, who is the city from the east is interpreted quite simply as the commentators say, even without the connection to the solar year (and what it has to do with sunrise, I still don't understand). One must also distinguish between an internal numerical correspondence (seconds in creation parallel to the days until the flood) and an external correspondence (290 or 215 years, perhaps parallel to something in the stars). One can think of the numerical correspondence as arbitrary and the second being adjusted to it because there is some "deep" and "fast" connection between the two. But what is the point of an external correspondence to solar years and stars?

[But tell me.
A. Don't these numbers arouse suspicion that it is like gematria? In the chaos, we find a few points of order that appeared randomly and then attribute meaning to them (in every chaos there will be a few instances that look like order. After all, they did not define in advance what is considered order. I think we need to do some statistical root cause analysis here before we approach the findings themselves).
B. If the things are both real history and also correspond to a Pythagorean numerical concept that dominates our humble world, then the meaning of the matter is that God made sure that these numbers appeared? Why did He do this? After all, they are not writers who invent inventions and feel like creating symmetrical structures out of the illusion that this indicates some deep something that is simmering in the secrets of the entire soil of creation. ]

Isn't Benu Yaakov the "commentator of Nechama Leibowitz"? Without reading a direct word of what he wrote, I feel like I learned quite a bit from him - through her. And according to my limited knowledge of Nechama Leibowitz, I don't remember her messing with numbers.

By the way, in Rachel Elior's books about Qumran, she presents them, based on the scrolls, as junkies of numerical symmetries (I read it a long time ago and remember very little).

Tamim, may God bless you for your words. His son Jacob is indeed quoted by Nechama who knew German and translated several passages. Regarding the gematria and the like, I think that is exactly the intention of the Bible there – Is there some other code there? Why detail the ages so much? It is found right at the beginning of the Torah and it is all dramatic shofar stories full of myth and depth and suddenly boring lists and a lack of understanding? If it is to express the age of the world, it is enough to indicate at what age they were born but not all the details, how long they lived after and at what age they died. If it is to indicate the length of the days of the ancients, I would not need all the details except for a general statement that they lived close to a thousand years and then God shortened it to 120 years. And many more questions. In my opinion, there is some kind of code there that was known to the readers/priests during the First Temple period and after – All the articles written about this will prove and reveal the hidden intentions of the Samaritan versions and the Septuagint and others, who changed the ages in order to lead to all kinds of calculations that would lead, for example, to the calculation that 6000 years would end immediately after the death of Jesus Christ and other long details – But in all the changes and versions, the same patterns are surprisingly preserved and there are many overlapping mathematical parallels – Which shows, according to the researchers, that they understood some particular mathematical process that always had to be preserved in these lists. In this matter, it is our duty to understand these codes, otherwise we would not have understood the essence of the message. Regarding the ages themselves, in my understanding, there is no way to read them literally, and it is clear that humans five thousand years ago lived in a similar way to ours, simply because they had no biological uniqueness if you understand that the Garden of Eden was nothing more than a parable (for the departure from the hunter-gatherer era to agriculture and domestication and the creation of culture and cities - see immediately after the expulsion there is Cain and Abel and by the sweat of your brow and building a city and the invention of crafts in the lineage of Cain). I will post an article here later that summarizes these things.) And they were relieved because humans lived before them for tens of thousands and millions of years - what happened that humans suddenly lived for hundreds of years?! Is this some kind of ongoing miracle without a reason? Even the miracles of the Exodus were momentary and necessary, but a biological miracle that has no meaning and no purpose is only acceptable to creationists who think that the world is 6,000 years old and all of humanity was created from the first Adam, and in any case they can accept that there was something special and exclusive in the "first" generations. (This is how Professor Nathan Aviezer and many Christian creationists explained it, for example (an interesting interpretation is that they say that there were indeed humans, but in the Garden of Eden - which has no exit because it was washed away in the flood - there was the tree of life and apparently man's eating from the tree before his expulsion left a genetic imprint on his descendants) All of this is not clear - which again requires us to find an explanation for the numerological meaning of these numbers - and comes to Zion Goel. PS As for the very existence of gematria in the Bible, I think there is evidence that they also used this tool, the Babylonians already used it, and see for example that Abram + Hagar = Ishmael in the Bible. The Children of Israel = 603 in the Bible - as the number of the Children of Israel in the Exodus from Egypt), a silver bowl = 930 in the Bible. As the age of Adam the first, and her weight there is 130 as the age at which he begot Seth (Rashi quotes from Moses the preacher, with an addition from the Midrash in the Torah Shlomo), and so on. Although there is no need to go as far as Gematria and it is likely that the ages of the patriarchs of the world are connected in any way to astronomical phenomena, because the entire context there speaks of a complex temporal reality, with all the dates that are cursed and superfluous in the flood (which give the impression of a "sailing calendar") and more. And as mentioned, the Babylonians, who are the source of the myth about patriarchs who lived hundreds of thousands of years, dabbled a lot in astronomy (they even developed the secret of Rabban Gamliel's conception) and among them, the seventh king is also connected to the work of the sun, like our seventh Enoch who lived 365 years - the measurement of the sun.

Be innocent, send me an email and I will pamper you with some comprehensive articles in English, most of which are not online – and we will get back to you from there giladstn@gmail.com

Regarding who the city was from the east of the sun, not as the proverb attributed to Cyrus, but as Hazal preached. That is Abraham. I was just preaching in an attempt to understand why 365 years passed until the revelation to him, and I suggested that this indicates the sunrise of a new revelation in the world of the Hebrew people. Sunrise reminds us of the sun, and a solar year, which is the rule of the sun in the world, is of the number 365. Basically, when you encounter this number, it ignites in you the connection to the sun, and as I said above, the counterpart of Enoch the seventh generation in the Babylonian myth did indeed worship the sun god.

I thought you were explaining that these numbers are related to historical truth in that these are tribes, etc., and not individual people, and that the years of slavery in Egypt are correct, etc. Now it seems that you are saying that all the details are false and that this is just a numerological invention to encrypt for us some message that was forgotten in the past and has now been rediscovered (it was discovered that it existed, what the content of the message was and what its importance was has not yet been discovered).

Of course, people used gematria for their own pleasure or for camouflage or to decide on the length of their wall, and so on, and this is a nice thing, but to think that all of reality is governed by complex numerical structures (a Newtonian revolution in metaphysics!) – This requires a serious explanation: who governs this law and why does it do it. Unless, as mentioned, you say that it is all an invention of the author or that he drew from the Babylonians who themselves invented it as they pleased in wine. Can you clarify this point?

[In parentheses, I say for myself that for me, before a very precise and defined statistical treatment, I do not “connect” to the brilliance that relies on numbers and underground structures. With all the concrete sense of surprise, it can still be completely-completely-completely just a coincidence and meaningless. If a silver bowl was not suitable for the first man, then the empty space in the jar of manna would be suitable for Zerubbabel, the traitor of Judah. There are endless possibilities for fitting things in all sorts of ways, and we need serious mathematicians who know how to tell when a text has an excessively excessive amount of order of a certain type, and only then is there reason to think that it has meaning. Although this does not apply to comparing myths.]

Thanks Gil, I sent it. [But you probably judged me right. I don't understand much (nor am I that interested) in matters of Bible study. I've read a few books and listened to lectures and I know more or less what the situation is in the world, but not more than that. And certainly not on avant-garde or niche topics. I only encounter what has already been digested and assimilated into the mainstream and passed their criticism. But on this subject, since you wrote then, you piqued my curiosity]

I will elaborate when I get around to it – I think this is a historical truth that indicates tribes and places and also historical people in the form of a father who begot his son while it is not always the case. What is not a historical truth is that a certain person lived for hundreds of years. It is impossible. But even if it is a tribe, it is inconceivable that a tribe from which another tribe branched off (i.e. Enoch “begot ” Methuselah) would always “live” about 800 years later and then “become extinct” Therefore, what it seems to me is that the names indicate a historical fact – whether tribesclansgeographical regionskingdoms or sometimes an actual historical figure of any king and so on. Everything is true – except for the number that is attached to that figure as representing the years of its life – This is not true and it probably encrypts some kind of calculation that we have to decipher (there is of course a third approach that I did not mention above and that is that the numbers are accurate but they are stored differently from ours and must be converted, in this there are many methods and the best known of them is that a year indicates a change of a month – therefore Methuselah lived according to this only 80 years. After the flood they began to count the four seasons of the year and therefore their age “shortened” to 400 on average we were 100, ours. Then the double year and finally from this month you count a normal year and indeed then people live only 70-80 or even 120 years), this method has several difficulties but it is not without foundation.

PS

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