Number of people in the Exodus from Egypt

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asked 4 years ago

Shalom Rabbi and happy holidays,
I heard an estimate from the biblical scholar Maor Ovadia that the number of people who left Egypt was between 20 and 30 thousand. In another question in the past, you were asked about the typology of the number 600,000, where you wrote at the end of the discussion: “Your comments are correct. It is unlikely that this is just typological.” If so, it is very possible that the numbers that appear in the Torah in the desert censuses are simply inflated, as was the custom in ancient literature to inflate things. Do you think this matter has any significance? Perhaps it changes the determination of the public domain of Shabbat according to Rashi (as the number of the Israelites in the desert)?
Additionally, why do you think the Torah devotes so many verses (two entire chapters to Numbers 1 and 6) and uses such precise numbers for each tribe if it is a question of enlarging? After all, whoever wants to enlarging should use a round number for the entire people of Israel and that’s it (as is done in the Book of Exodus, “about six hundred thousand feet”).
Best regards,

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מיכי Staff answered 4 years ago

I don’t know what it’s based on, but I don’t see much significance in it. As for the public domain, I’m not sure. The Torah chose to present things this way, so from our perspective, 600,000 came out, and therefore it’s a rabbinical boundary. Just as the Torah chose to present the creation of the world in six days, and therefore Shabbat is on the seventh day, even if historically in my opinion it didn’t happen in six days. Regarding the blacksmith that the Torah dedicates, perhaps these numbers in themselves say something. I think there was once something of Copenhagen in this direction. But you’re right, if Maor is right, it’s really difficult.

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Maor Ovadia replied 4 years ago

1. I said that if you look at the current findings and population hypotheses, this is the order of magnitude that emerges from them. This is a description of what emerges from the existing research material and nothing more. This does not mean that what is currently known is correct (or that I personally think it is).
2. The mere fact that the numbers are not round does not question this possibility. It is also important to note that no one thinks this is an exaggeration but rather numbers with significance that needs to be discovered.
3. Even if these are special numbers, and this is a large number – there is no question about the sermon of the Sages. The sermon of the Sages is built on what appears in the verses and if that is what appears, it does not matter what the symbolic reason is for the number to appear this way – the scripture on which the sermon was delivered is the one that determines the law.

Adir replied 3 years ago

And what is your personal opinion?

Maor Ovadia replied 3 years ago

The research considerations and archaeological data that have been uncovered so far are indeed important, but they are still lacking and I would not rely on them to draw a conclusion at this stage.

Maor Ovadia replied 3 years ago

For those who want to see a neat layout of the idea:

And yes, I am still skeptical about our ability to say with certainty what is realistic and what is not. But when we discuss from the research side (only) we discuss from the research side…