Standing “firstborn of the test” in Haredi yeshiva

By the way, in other yeshivahs, there are usually no exams either.

The rabbi probably studied physics to know whether the tests were beneficial to his Torah or detrimental?
If the tests were beneficial, what is the difference between a test in Gemara (harmful) and a test in physics (beneficial)?

If physics were taught without tests, there would certainly be room to consider teaching without tests. But this usually does not happen. The Torah claims that this does happen, and that it is also more important to study in order to know. Evidence should not be brought from one to the other. Of course, this could also be people's different approaches, and this is not a big problem either.

Before WW2, they still adhered to the tradition of tests handed down to us from generation to generation:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zQm1NZyfiMklGoO-6lR3tx49nNlFGJnT/view?usp=drivesdk

Who claims that” this does happen” ?
I don't understand at all what the contradiction is between studying that ends with a test and studying in order to know, and also what is the matter of the “importance” of studying?

Benjamin, personal testimony: As part of my degree, I am taking a psychopathology course at the end of which I am supposed to take a test on the material. The learning is only to pass the test. On the other hand, when I study the same material out of personal desire, the results are a thousand times better. Both in quantity and quality.

Good evening Shai, I think that the very distinction between study and a test and study without a test while attributing virtues related to the way of studying Torah, which is essentially, so to speak, different from the way of studying any other wisdom, is an excellent expression of psychopathology, that is, the majority of the population understands the connection between tests and proven success in studies and a minority does not, this is a statistically significant expression of abnormality. There is a serious flaw in the presentation of the claims here, my argument is that whether the study is interesting or not, the test will have a positive effect, it will certainly serve as evidence of proficiency in the material being studied, it is completely simple, and as much evidence as is needed, the evidence from the Creator (Zech. 1:11) in which they were also tested on the uninteresting material and succeeded.

PS: Between us, every Haredi boy who was forced to be hospitalized in ”Teira educational institutions” from the age of 3 to the age of 120, Magen ”Haider” through Yeshiva and Boylel, studies out of ”personal desire”? Come on, really…
At least let them prove to me that there is a return for the pension.

Benjamin, this has no necessary connection to Torah. Studying with tests, of course, has advantages (feedback, order, incentive). But when these advantages are irrelevant, or other ways are found to achieve them, there are enormous advantages to studying without tests. It is a study that can concentrate on the right dose of understanding and memory, is not limited in time, allows for in-depth study of specific topics and skipping others (according to the learner's goals), and of course, it does not have the unpleasant feeling of "I was forced to."

I was once a member of a discussion group about a certain author. Over the years, rumors have surfaced that his books were about to be included in the curriculum. People were horrified: it was clear to them that when the books moved from the reading book shelf to the textbook shelf, their fate would be sealed.

In the year 13 Iyar 5722,

Regarding exams for yeshiva students, there was a difference between the Lithuanian and Hungarian yeshiva schools. In Hungary, the yeshiva was an organized institution of the community, headed by the city rabbi in Drach. The yeshiva's goal was that all young people would receive basic Torah knowledge in the yeshiva, most of whom would be trained to be "house owners"; men of Torah, and the chosen ones would become rabbis and gedolei ve Torah, a layer of Torah leadership for the communities.

The Hungarian yeshiva was an organized educational institution, with an organized curriculum, in which there were "Shiur Aiv" (work class), in which fundamental issues in Shas were studied in depth; "Shiur Sosho" (simple class), in which the In which the Gemara of Rashi was taught in order, with additional Tosafot and commentaries, lessons in Och and Yod that gave students knowledge of the laws of the Mesiah, and a weekly lesson in the weekly Torah and lessons in Nech and/or moral books. This entire “system of lessons” was accompanied by weekly tests and exams.

Since the days of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Hungarian Jews were required to attend several classes of a state elementary school, and the Hungarian yeshiva did not lack in organization, a well-organized curriculum, and exams, as was customary in the government school.

In contrast, the Lithuanians returned from the study houses, the "koys" of Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia, where boys, young men, and "householders" and older scholars sat in the study houses, diligently engaged in study without "an officer, policeman, or governor," each building his own personal study program. No one gave the students a scholarship, many went to the Torah Place and slept with the "help of women" and "ate for days" with the householders who hosted them. Those who loved the Torah - labored over it day and night, and those who had no desire found their place as merchants or craftsmen.

The first organized yeshiva to be established in Lithuania was the Volozhin yeshiva, which was intended for the elite of the elite, and to which were admitted "one, two" from each city, a concentration of the great elite, for whom there was no need to hold a "lesson program" and exams. There was a daily lesson in Gemara delivered by world-renowned geniuses who headed the yeshiva, such as the Netziv and the Gerach of Brisk, and around which were the lessons of the yeshiva heads. Whoever went on to serve as a community rabbi would study the poskim himself and would approach one of the great rabbis who would examine him and authorize him to teach.

The yeshivahs that were established later in Lithuania also operated according to this tradition. The center was the theoretical lesson of the yeshiva heads, the center of study, around which "groups" developed who encouraged the students to innovate in the study of the Talmud. The students came to the yeshiva voluntarily and studied Torah out of great urgency, out of an aspiration to grow into scholars and Torah gurus, and they devoted themselves to studying it diligently and with dedication. (In the yeshivahs of morality, attention was also added to the study of morality, in parallel with the ’shiurim’ and ’heburot’ in the study of the Talmud; there were the ’sichot’ and ’aadim’ in the study of morality.

For various historical reasons, in the yeshivahs in the Land of Israel, the Lithuanian model became more widespread, and the Hungarian model less so.

With blessings, Sh”z.

The title should of course be

‘Kosher for Scholars or ‘Homeowners and Rabbis – The Differences Between Lithuania and Hungary

In my opinion, the 'forced' students in educational institutions in the West are required to take exams, this is the Hungarian model that everyone is in, and without exams, the books have already moved from the reading shelf to the study shelf [of course there are many good ones who are not, but the test will hardly harm them]

Either way, the issue of exams depends on the nature of each learner. There are those for whom the prospect of being tested makes them focus their studies and make them ‘goal-oriented’, and there are those for whom exams may stress them out.

A middle ground that has been spreading in recent years, of external encouragement exams such as ‘The Sh”S’ and ’Darshu’, which encourage goal-oriented study that deals with doubts without forcing it on those who are not interested,

With greetings, Sh”T.

For example, it seems that the reason there are no tests is so that the weak won't see that they get 50 on every test and start asking themselves what they are doing in yeshiva and go grazing in foreign fields, God forbid, and when there are no tests, everyone can tell themselves that the page they completed in a month is the most important thing, etc. (Although in other fields it is difficult for a person to work all day without feeling like they are contributing to the field)