The prohibition of possession of smartphones and the authority of the elders of the generation
Hello Rabbi,
I wanted to know what you think about the rulings of well-known rabbis from the Haredi sector regarding owners of various types of smartphones, who disqualify them from testifying, and some write extremely serious things about possessing the “impure” devices.
I am Haredi, live in a Haredi environment but own a smartphone and it is not clear to me whether these rulings should be regarded as actual laws or as things that came to educate?
In my opinion, the smartphone is something I need (for livelihood and social connections), although I’m not sure those who have the “authority” to approve would approve it. If the rabbis came to educate, then I understand that it’s good advice that I don’t follow, but if these are actual laws, then am I considered a halakhic offender?
In what sense am I obligated to listen to these rabbis? If I listen to them then I belong to their “court” and if not then I don’t, or is there any significance here for the entire Jewish people?
Thanks in advance and Happy New Year,
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The issue is not to prohibit the device by prohibiting the hafza per se. Rather, any intelligent and experienced person (or one who learns from the experiences of others who examine the subject in depth) understands that there is a presumption of a complete offense here regarding “and you shall not turn aside” both in the sense of minut (cf. brachot) and in the original sense of pimping for a transgression (books). Isn’t it forbidden to possess minut books even if one does not look at them, or looks at them only in “clean” sections? I am sure that the issue of “Isn’t there a place where evil events will happen later!” has not escaped his attention. And at the very least, it would have been appropriate in your response to the judge to note that an unprotected device is certainly considered a pimp for its accessories, drugs, and the like. Since so many people have died from it, I wonder what you are relying on to determine that there is no prohibition? And if in matters of the body, the danger is worse than the prohibition, isn’t it in matters of eternal life that there is no need for rabbinical authority to prohibit the possession of such a device. And one more point to conclude, with your permission. Do we need rabbis with authority to prohibit a person from approaching someone who is sick with a contagious and dangerous disease (such as Ebola)? Isn’t the affirmative “and you were protected” sufficient? All that is required is an expert (a doctor, in this case) who testifies to the danger involved. And so on. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: Hello. First, just a parenthetical note: for some reason there are quite a few statements that indicate that this is a real prohibition on hafza. And for good reason, because without prohibiting hafza, there is no prohibition here, as I will explain.
Secondly, Mr. Peshitah, there is a prohibition against using a non-kosher phone (although I am not knowledgeable, but I have experience). I do not see a significant problem with a non-kosher phone, and it is certainly impossible to understand the nonsense of text messaging, which has been turned by people who have never seen what it is, into a tool and a means of prohibition. What is the problem with text messaging? It is crazy hysteria. Therefore, stop talking about Ebola and other nonsense and ridiculous examples. Before banning those who own a non-kosher phone, ban all the people who ban people for owning a phone and other ultra-Orthodox perpetrators of violence and discrimination.
Third, see on the issue of Pesachim Ka (as well as in the well-known words of the Chach) the majority agreement among all the Rishonim that when there is a difference between the paths (even a small difference in length), consider it as a Darka Akhirina. This is not about rape or great necessity, as is well-known. Rather, they differ in how much difference there is in them (somewhat, or a little beyond). But with the phone and SMS, it seems simple to know that everyone is faded as if there is no Darka Akhirina, since SMS makes life very easy (even for others who are looking for you and are unable to make contact due to too much “kashrut”), and in general, the smartphone allows for many important things that are not even a bit forbidden, which a regular phone does not allow. And it is simply that such a difference is as if there is no Darka Akhirina. And indeed, the same is true for the books of the Minut and immodest books that you mentioned in your words.
Fourth, one must take into account what a person does not intend, since it is impossible and impossible for a person to intend, and this is the last thing, as explained in the Pesach there.
In short, this is simply nonsense for the sake of justice, that some activists managed to convince some rabbis who had never seen what it was about to prohibit it. Indeed, there is some degree of concern, as with many other things, but it does not justify this crazy hysteria in any way. This is the world and that is how it is run, and the Torah was not given to the ministering angels. Before the prohibition on non-kosher phones, I would have demanded that people live each one alone in caves so that they would not talk to the Lord, offend the Zedekiah, or violate the prohibitions of incest. But what? That this is the world and the Torah is supposed to function within it and not in its place. After that, driving in cars should be banned, because hundreds are killed and thousands are injured every year, and is that easy in your eyes? Except that the Torah was not given to the ministering angels, but to those who come to this world. And simple. —————————————————————————————— Non-extreme Haredi: In response to your response to my words, first, I find your harsh language and expressions of disdain towards rabbis who are at least as knowledgeable and responsible for all of Israel as you are, to be more indicative of you than of them. To be honest – you are creating a straw man named SMS and attacking the opposition to it. Under the guise of important uses of a smart phone – which can also be done on a well-protected phone!! – you want to allow a device that anyone who uses it will most likely access, willingly or unwillingly, obscene images and worse, and to read obscene and heretical words. Do you really not know how many families have been destroyed and how many tragedies have been caused by the use of such devices?? I find it hard to believe that you are that naive, or do you not feel enough responsibility towards those who decide to play “Russian roulette” with their spiritual lives and the lives of their families? I do not mean to attack, I only asked out of genuine bewilderment. Your answer, saturated with contempt for the rabbis and ridiculous examples such as “going back to the caves and the Stone Age” seem inappropriate to me, an intelligent and knowledgeable Jew like you. In my opinion, this type of demagogy is not included in the ability of the Sanhedrin sages to allow the creeper in the Book of Tastes. And out of nowhere, I return to my question – should people really not be separated from such a terrible spiritual danger (and this is backed up by tragic facts and alarming numbers) even without rabbinical authority? —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: As for what this indicates about me, everyone will judge for themselves. I suppose it is indeed correct to conclude things about a person from what he writes.
In my opinion, the destruction of families, to the extent that it actually occurs, is caused more by the prohibition and hysteria than by the actual possession of the device. After creating hysteria and fear of the impure devices, it is no wonder that conflicts arise in families on this basis. This is usually what happens with pointless prohibitions of this type. These prohibitions have destroyed and are destroying quite a few different families and societies, and I can only guess what the quantitative ratio is between those destroyed by the prohibition and those destroyed by the phone.
In my opinion, these restrictions and reservations create more problems than they solve. The restrictions on relationships between the sexes create a thousand times more problems, and this is backed up by numbers (regarding domestic abuse and sexual violence in Haredi society, and anyone who deals with this will tell you). But this is the accepted Haredi thinking, and I probably won’t convince you of this.
The Haredi policy builds and increases the problems instead of dealing with them, and every prohibition creates more problems, and then more prohibitions will be created. And all of this, of course, proves how dangerous the world is, and therefore the walls must be raised even higher. In engineering, this is called “positive feedback” which ultimately leads to an explosion. And then, of course, they will explain to us that the evil and stupid secularists are building a hospital under the bridge.
I also have a few quibbles about your reading comprehension. Here’s one of them: I didn’t write to go back to the caves and the Stone Age, but rather I gave an example that is not required of people (to live in caves in order not to risk severe prohibitions).
And while we’re on the subject, I don’t think I saw in your words any reference to the arguments I raised, both the examples of living in a cave and traveling in a car, and the issue of the latter. You prefer to focus on what is supposedly “obvious to everyone” and on the fictional numbers about Ebola “that everyone knows from their own experience.”
As mentioned, there is no terrible spiritual danger here, but a reasonable risk that must be dealt with like many other things. This is not Russian roulette or Ebola. These old wives’ tales about fictional numbers that no one has ever checked really do not impress me. I remember that Amnon Levy’s book about the Haredim begins with the fact that there is nothing minor about them. Everything is a catastrophe and a holocaust or immediate salvation. A stone from a wall will cry out against any nonsense, and old wives’ tales become verified facts. If for once the Haredim are honest and willing to check things in the light of day and then present numbers, perhaps we can talk about facts. In the meantime, these are mikveh stories, or worse: Yated Ne’eman stories.
I do not have much faith in the rabbis who are considered great in the Haredi world. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I have lost it. I assume that these are good people with good will, and some are also great religious leaders (although I usually do not appreciate their way of thinking very much), but unfortunately they do not know the world in which they live and are led to their decisions by small, self-interested businessmen who are looking for employment for them instead of studying in a kollel (which is quite boring for them). Due to a separate bus and other ridiculous inventions (this was still invented when I lived in Bnei Brak. Line 1 Mehadrin that everyone died laughing until it became a core belief against the will of the rabbis who signed the ban).
In the Haredi world, sitting on the throne of the Lord and determining policy for the public is considered a step up. For me, it’s a step down. In order to determine something for the public, you have to know it, and it’s not enough to know all the katsuvah by heart. Sometimes it’s even a hindrance. A rabbi who has never seen a sams cannot determine a prohibition on it. He simply doesn’t understand what shah is, and if he doesn’t understand that he doesn’t understand – it’s even worse.
By the way, this doesn’t mean that I don’t have faith in the sages. I certainly do (of course, moderately and to a reasonable extent). But it is faith in the sages, and the question of who the sages are who deserve this trust is the important question, and this is probably the crux of our argument.
And I will end by dismissing the hysterical attitude you have towards the SMS (as if there is no such thing). This is nothing but part of the usual Haredi propaganda by Haredi spokespeople who represent Haredi society to the outside world. I have had enough of this lie. What can I do, I know the situation well and know that this is indeed the attitude towards the SMS in its true form. It is worth knowing that telling the truth, even if it is unpleasant, is usually both more beneficial and more morally appropriate. There is no need to constantly represent and embellish, since in such a situation it is very difficult to correct what needs correction. —————————————————————————————— Non-extreme Haredi: It seems that what I wrote was deleted again due to the page refresh, so I’m writing again. If there is duplication in this, I apologize. I decided to add another reference to your response.
At the end of your words there is a claim that is logically unfounded, and in my opinion it is nothing more than a spiteful claim that is not appropriate for a person of your caliber. And I will explain my words – you write with sharp cynicism that before banning smartphones, cars should be banned because hundreds of people die using them every year, etc. To that I would say, “Fuck, let God do it!” Has the abysmal difference really disappeared from you? After all, it is not a ban on smartphones, but a ban on unprotected smartphones. As I already wrote, I have a smartphone protected by Nativ and it is not banned at all. On the contrary – it is recommended. For the example you gave to be appropriate, one needs to draw a reality in which there are two types of cars. Regular cars that cause many deaths, and protected cars in which there are no deaths (the intention is accidental. There is no regulation for the mischievous). In this hypothetical case, isn’t it clear that one doesn’t have to be a generational giant to ban the use of unprotected cars?? Your claim turns out to be unfounded not only for the aforementioned logical reason, but also because it exudes – at least to my nose – a distinct smell of mockery and contempt for arrogance. I believe that it is capable of casting aspersions on the level of objectivity of your judgment on the subject, and that is a shame. A simple and final example can illustrate this: a person needs professional information that he can find in a professional issue that does not contain any articles with heretical opinions (that he does not have enough knowledge and critical sense to notice their mistakes) and that does not contain any immodest pictures or worse. The second option is to find the article in a weekly magazine that is mostly devoted to stimulating passions and pleasures of a certain kind, and also contains scientific articles. As a rabbi in Israel, would you calmly rule that one should ignore, and even disdain, the ruling of rabbis that one is forbidden to read a leaflet of the first type, but only the second type?? – This is clearly an example that suits the subject, as opposed to moving to live in caves. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: You’re evasive again, because for years they banned every smartphone, as well as text messaging, and the Internet (and radio). It’s possible that now there’s a new invention of a protected phone that they’ve allowed. I don’t follow all these innovations.
It is not true that one can always find professional information in a newsletter without heretical opinions or without pictures. This is again a distortion of reality. If it were possible – I would support this (at least regarding modesty. Not really regarding heresy, because in my opinion it is important to recognize other opinions, even those that are considered heretical, certainly when usually those who determine what is heretical and what is not – do not understand what chess is). —————————————————————————————— Non-extreme Haredi: Apparently, it’s not just love that spoils the line. You doubt my reading comprehension, since your example of returning to the caves was only Hawa Amina. But, as we know, Hawa Amina also has to stand the test of logic. But that’s not the main problem, in my opinion. In complete contrast to the thoroughness and accuracy reflected in your theoretical articles – in your last response, I was amazed to see your approach. You attack the Haredim with “grandmother’s tales and fictional books that no one has ever checked,” and you yourself write: “The restrictions on relations between the sexes create a thousand times more problems…” Maybe it’s only 12 times? Is that your area of expertise? Or are you relying on rumors? At the end of my speech, I will present a letter (in English) from Rabbi Professor Avraham Twarsky – a great scholar and professor of clinical psychiatry who not only has one of the best professional authorities in the Haredi world in the US, but also a public figure who sits among his people and has treated hundreds of people for many years (this number has been verified) and also within the framework of an organization established in 2007 specifically to treat people who have been spiritually harmed as a result of exposure to the world of the Internet. You will be able to see data from a first-rate professional in the field, and not what you write: “In my opinion, the destruction of families, to the extent that it actually occurs, is caused more by the prohibition and hysteria than by the mere possession of the device…” What wise man will compare your personal opinion with the accumulated data. (I personally have met three families in recent years that were destroyed when the father, who was exposed and carried away by pornography on the Internet, abandoned his wife and children, broke the yoke of the mitzvot and left). I have not met or heard from professionals about a family that was destroyed because of the hysteria against the hacked Internet.
Throughout your entire response, you are led in the direction of “in my opinion and hypothesis… compared to the Haredi hysteria” without having a single piece of data or study to back up your perception that the prohibitions are the source of the problem, not the exposure to the content.
You did not address at all a very important point that I raised: Since there are protected phones that are accessible for technological needs while containing the danger to a reasonable extent, how is it that you do not agree to uphold “from what is good, let no evil happen”?!! After all, the holy sages abolished the commandment of blowing the shofar on Rosh Hashanah from all of Israel out of the fear – remote!! – that someone would blow a shofar in the Lord’s Supper. The right of the people of Israel to blow the shofar is not worthwhile if a Jew commits an offense. This is the extent of the responsibility of the sages for the offense of one person. And where in your approach is there any concern for those who commit terrible offenses? I believe that this is a question of fear of God and not of examining reality. I believe that the great men of the generation who fight against devices with the loophole of pornography and heresy are the ones who reveal the true responsibility for the souls of the people of Israel, and not those who equanimously propose taking risks because “this is life.”
A Jew named Kobi Levy, who is involved in publishing books and articles on the subject, is in contact with many elements in the Haredi community who are trying to save as many as possible, and in particular, he is personally involved in problems of the type I mentioned in hundreds of families. He has accurate data of names, addresses, and all the details. If you are equipped with a little love of truth – please contact him and ask him for solid and factual evidence of the extent of the problem. You will be able to see firsthand whether this is hysteria or facts. I feel that if you had come across a single family (and I am willing to give you a name and phone number) that was destroyed because of a child who had such a device and the terrible consequences for the family – you would not have written what you wrote. You would clearly see how incorrect the assumptions you constantly make are.
The fact that there is much to fix in the Haredi public does not make it the ridiculous public you portray.
But, I suppose that, as I wrote in the opening: it’s not just love that spoils the line, pride too.
I am quoting Rabbi Professor Twarsky and attaching his email address so that you can request verified numbers and an accurate factual description of the dimensions of the pandemic from him, and professional analyses from some of them who are not philosophers but first-rate professionals in the field:
Abraham_J._Twerski@mail.vresp.com
I believe that in our generation, the single greatest danger to Klal Yisrael is that of immorality. The plague of illicit material on the internet has affected the type of people we would never have suspected vulnerable: yeshiva bachurim, kollel yungeleit and shomrei mitzvos lemehadrin. The Satan has won a battle, hurting so many individuals and families.
But in every generation, Gd in his kindness, sends down someone to sustain Judaism such as the Baal Shem Tov with Chassidus, Rabbi Yisrael Salanter with the Mussar movement and the Chofetz Chaim with Shmiras Halashon. We are extremely fortunate that several dedicated people have developed a network to help Jews who are caught in this trap: GuardYourEyes.com . It’s one of my absolute favorite organizations and I have been involved with them in many ways since their founding (in 2007).
In my 40 years of psychiatric experience I can testify that traditional psychiatry and psychology are not effective on their own. GuardYourEyes provides a variety of anonymous tools, counseling and support for affected people, allowing thousands of Jews to get help. I get an average of five calls a week about this issue, and before GuardYourEyes was around I didn’t have anywhere to send people. Their success rate is phenomenal. I am personally aware of many, many people who have been saved.
The GuardYourEyes project is extremely important for Klal Yisrael today – it is truly a pikuach nefesh. Please open your hearts and give generously to help them continue their holy work. All of their services are free of charge and it’s a great mitzvah to support them. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: Hello.
There are so many failures and oversights in your latest words, too, that my conclusion is that this discussion is leading nowhere.
A good signing for all of us. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: I feel that my previous response seemed evasive. So I will explain my intention further, although I really do not intend to open a debate. So I will just mention a few of the failures here (and there are several more).
Before I explain, I will just make a general comment: Is the impermissibility of the testimony of such phone holders and their disqualification from all sorts of other things really halachically based, as you wrote? Not to mention their persecution in many other diverse forms. I will not return to the rest of your oversights that I have already commented on and the problems that this persecution itself causes.
And as for the “data” you brought here. The use of “experts” and “data” in these fields, especially those who report personal experience (such as “I saw three cases myself. I can get you a phone”) rather than systematic research, is notorious. I think that’s what alternative medicine is mainly built on (my grandmother had a miracle after the doctors gave up on her. That’s why in the case of colon cancer, Czech acupuncture should be done. Tried and tested).
This is why, in my lofty pride (after the line was spoiled), I cast great doubt on all of this. Such statements are more the result of prejudices and preconceptions than of data.
In general, it is very difficult to conduct research on such issues in general society, and in ultra-Orthodox society it is literally impossible. Such research, even if conducted, is biased from so many angles that it is ridiculous to even consider it quantitatively.
This is the reason I will not take advantage of your generous suggestions to examine the situation, as this requires lengthy research and because of what I will now explain, I have great doubt whether I will even be able to reach results. I will add that my trust in psychologists and psychology is quite small, even in more established fields, and I will report here.
Here are some comments that make it very difficult to examine data and decipher its meaning:
1. Have we examined how many of these cases are saved by banning non-kosher phones? Is it even possible to completely block people from contact with the world around us?
2. Have we examined how many problematic cases and what types are there as a result of this ban and the persecutions that followed? Incidentally, I personally know of several of them. But I do not pretend to cite data that I do not have because of some personal experiences.
3. Has the influence and contribution of the Haredi attitude itself to these results (the society that imposes taboos on them and demonizes them) been examined? What was the number of cases of destruction in a more open society? Due to the use of sperm for nothing and the ramifications. And due to conscription into the army, which, as is known, causes terrible secularization (and disqualifies them from witnessing and marriage), but for some reason this almost never happens among the students of the Rabbinical Center who enlist.
Allowing such impulses to catharsis also has a positive value. A complete ban could lead to these impulses venting in other, more harmful directions. Cases that professionals encounter every day, and according to some of them I spoke to, are much more common in Haredi society.
The opening up to psychology and a more orderly approach to these problems is also a change for the better in Haredi society. In my opinion, the concealment and ignoring also contribute to the formation of the problem. Not to mention the lack of press reporting and public discussion about all of this. There is only preaching and the use of unknown “data” and demonization that does not stand up to public scrutiny.
4. Have we examined how many of the people would have abandoned their family or their mitzvot even without the non-kosher phone? For some of them, did this take on problems that they had harbored before and were sublimated due to social pressure? After all, there are quite a few abandonments even without this. From time to time, it is worth admitting that our world is not perfect, even if it appeared ideal.
And yet, of course, there is room for impressions, and I do not intend to say that there is no point in the discussion. But it seems to me that there is a strong dependence on the basic assumptions and starting points of the debaters and less on the data. I will admit and not be ashamed that my starting point is that an open world is better than a closed world.
Here I will add that I do not know what is filtered on the kosher phone, but according to your testimony, it is also about heresy and other opinions and not just modesty. Therefore, it is clear to me, as it has always been clear to me, that this prohibition is much more related to the fear of the Haredi leadership that people will start thinking and hearing other opinions than to exposure to pornography and prohibitions. It has always been this way, even when I was still more informed about what was happening there. This is the main fear of the Internet, and abominations and pornography are only a tool of external propaganda and war (not that it does not exist, but in my opinion this is not the truly serious problem in the eyes of the Haredi leadership).
By the way, you could do a neat experiment on this. Offer the Haredi leadership two options: 1. A neat pornographic channel with no connection to the Internet. 2. A connection to the Internet hermetically filtered from pornography but not from opinions (even from rabbis, not to mention secularists and various heretics). What would they prefer? I have a suspicion, but as I said, I haven’t done any research.
As for spoiling the line and pride, I’ll try to think about it in a way that will benefit us. Thanks for the rebuke.
A good signing, may it be a year of correcting standards and correcting broken lines. —————————————————————————————— Non-extreme Haredi: I understand that professionals and facts and data from the field are your failures and oversights, and only your assumptions are true? Showing responsibility for people’s spiritual downfalls is your failures and oversights? Will the readers judge and see how far the concept of “I have my truth, don’t confuse me with facts” can go? And I ask myself: If a flame fell in the cedars…?
May you be signed and sealed in the book of life. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: I wrote a response below before I received your comment. See there. May you be signed and sealed in the book of life. —————————————————————————————— Non-extreme Haredi: I saw your comment before I wrote it.
But – I believe you will not call Professor Twarsky to check facts. You will not call Kobi Levy to get addresses of families to check personally, you will not torment your conscience over a person who falls into the web of abomination as a result of the irresponsible surfing of a rabbi who instructs his listeners to have an unprotected phone, because the prohibition is more severe than the protection. I hope I am wrong about this, and I will be willing to apologize explicitly on this platform that I have wronged you.
Good signing to you too. —————————————————————————————— Non-extreme Haredi: I was going to withdraw from the dialogue (or monologue?), but what can I do? On the evening of Yom Kippur (the day after my last post), I received a sad phone call from a man in my neighborhood. His daughter (a graduate) was tempted to buy an iPhone, and the rest is known. You disdained the exposure of heresy and raised pointed questions, who determines what is heresy, etc. Can you imagine what a lecture on YouTube by a learned, impressive, and well-respected scientist does about the theory of evolution and the conclusions he draws from it regarding religion?! And especially among people (not necessarily religious) who mistakenly identify technological successes as evidence of the truth in science.
What to say to her father? A rabbi who has an opinion on almost everything (and I really admire the scope of your words in so many areas) ruled that rabbis should not be required to use protected smartphones. That the danger is not from exposure to these kinds of lectures but from the Haredi hysteria? I would be grateful if you would agree to ask me for the girl’s details, meet with her and help her reverse the dramatic steps she took in her life?
Or maybe I should tell her that she is part of the “open and progressive Jewish victimhood”?
As an aside, I would like to express my appreciation for the fact that you act honestly and also publish criticism of your words on the site, unlike “certain” sites.
Pitaka Taba. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: Wrong. Tell him that she is part of the victims of closed Judaism that did not give her the tools to cope, thus sending her to perdition in the first, superficial meeting she had with other opinions and arguments.
Contrary to the Haredi assumption, openness solves these problems, not creates them. It has short-term costs, but in the long term there is no alternative. It is closure that creates these problems.
I have already written here about the mistake made during the Enlightenment period when young people were given the choice of being righteous (and foolish) or wise (and wicked). It is no wonder that many chose the second option. Harediism is repeating this even today, and its victims are enormous. I meet them every day.
There are no good answers to this, and you have to be honest. But people fall for simple arguments because they are not skilled and do not know. If you allowed the arguments to be heard and dealt with, the situation would be better (certainly in the long term. The gains from disclosure are only in the short term).
I would be happy to meet with her and try to clarify the questions. Give her or her father my phone number, 052-3320543.
By the way, the fact that people who have problems ask me about them (there are many of them) means that openness is what creates the possibility of dealing with these problems. I’m not saying that I have answers to all the questions, but I at least try to be honest. This is what people usually look for, more than slogan-based and dishonest answers or condemnation as heretics (which is the Haredi way of dealing with them that prevents questions from being raised). —————————————————————————————— Yogev: Can the rabbi explain the sentence “The rules of halakhah are always guidelines and not hard and fast rules”? —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: As he put it. There is a rule that the Abiys ruled in the Ya’al Kagam, but the Rishonim rule similarly on other issues. There is a rule that is a mitzvah that time has made women exempt, but there are several exceptions. There are rulings of the Kavash against the Bat Kol. And so on. The entire Talmud expresses a view that disdains rules and sees them at most as a guiding framework and not as binding instructions. That is why they do not deal with rules that much. It is like the rules of language, each of which has many exceptions, because the rules are an approximation and not a rigid and rigid rule. The same is true of the rules of halakha. They did not come down from Sinai but were created as an approximation to intuitive thinking. And this should be expanded upon (I am doing this in the trilogy I am currently writing).
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I understood your point regarding the Haredi rabbinical authority and that there is a need for systematic empirical research to confirm and speculate on causality between iPhone owners and various offenses.
However, the question remains whether, in the Rabbi's opinion, there is no halakhic problem with owning an iPhone.
I will mark my neighborhood as forbidden and you will not be allowed to watch pornography for men. Without reference to the issue of opinions and heresy
In my opinion, there is no halakhic prohibition on owning a cell phone. Even if it may lead to viewing forbidden things. Above we are talking about the law of what is possible and not what is required. Beyond that, what about texting and viewing pornography?
May our rabbi teach us how to address the issue of Baba Batra, from whom the Chafetz Chaim learned that in matters of fornication one does not say, “It is impossible and it is not intended.”
Chafetz Chaim is a slanderer, a well-known source of living water.
And this issue should not be made difficult, since it is stated in Baba Batra (57:2) that it is written that he who closes his eyes sees evil, that he does not look at women while they are washing clothes, and the Gemara’s kafir says, “If he does not look at women while they are washing clothes, he is wicked, and if he does not look at them in the future, he is wicked, and if he does not look at them in the future, he is a slave, and if he does not look at them in the future, he is a slave, and even And if so, here are some rulings that are permissible and not intended, meaning that it is permissible for him to go another way and not violate the prohibition of enjoyment of the law, and he goes this way, since he goes his way and does not intend to enjoy the law, and not specifically the law, since he is in all the prohibitions in the world, as the Shaykh wrote in Yom Kippur, verse 142 at the end, and what is the law even if he sees and hears, etc., and here in B. B. the Gemara is evil, according to the interpretation of the Rashb, even if he closes his eyes, since he has another way, and even according to the ruling of the wisdom of Adam, which was cited above, which ruled that it is necessary to plug his ears and close his eyes, it is also difficult not to in any case plug his ears and close his eyes, even if he has another way, since he goes On his way and does not intend to enjoy himself, and if so, then he is walking on the riverbank, as is heard in the commentary of the Rashb”am there and does not go for that, and even the Gemara calls him wicked.
And it is not said that this does not depend on the Plugta of Dr. Yehuda and R’ Shimon and of course on Pesachim there and R’ Yehuda it is possible and not intending is forbidden, and therefore the Gemara refutes the verse on the method of R’ Yehuda, saying that something that is not intended is forbidden, if so it is wicked and it is not necessary to call it evil, this is not, unless many of the early writers wrote that Dr. Yehuda himself admits that something that is not intended is permissible from the Torah and see Yoma (page 34, p. 2) with the addition of the name and further if so according to the ruling of the halachah Daki”l 4’l Shimon said that there is no intention to do so, it will be permissible even with him, as we have explained above, since it is possible and not intentional, and did not the Shulchan Aha, verse 21, rule that it is forbidden to look at women while they are washing clothes? And it should not be said that this reason is because of the conclusion that it is forbidden to do so, so it is most common on Passovers, but it is forbidden to do so, so that it is not forbidden to look at the houses of the deceased, lest he come to enjoy himself, and also to close his ears from hearing the sound of music that is sung before the deceased, lest he come to enjoy himself, and did we not clarify above from several places that we are not sensitive to this, and I have studied this issue extensively. And it seems to me that the Gemara's explanation is absurd because a person's soul is intoxicated with pleasure, and it should be made more severe, even if he now thinks that he will not be pleased with this pleasure, lest his urges overwhelm him and he comes to ponder over it. And so we have found in several matters that have been made more severe in matters of contemplation than all the prohibitions in the Torah, even without possibility or intention, and as in the matter that they said in Berakot (page 61), "A lion behind a lion and not a woman behind a woman, if he hits a woman on the road, he runs after her and pushes her aside," and it follows from the words of the latter that even if he had a second chance to escape, and it was not pleasant for him in contemplation, even if the Sages forbade it, and all for the reason that I wrote above. And from the words of Rashbam Daki, far from ugliness, we were in matters that are subject to the temptation of the instinct and also to the very fierceness of human beings.
The issue is discussed above.
Right, thank you.
And what about the prohibition against passing by a prostitute's door?
I recently read that about 75 percent of all young men in the Western world regularly visit pornographic websites.
Do you think it is possible to say that, although smartphones should not be banned completely, there is still a halakhic obligation to require the provider to have a minimal website filtering system?
Happy Holidays to Rabbi Michi,
So far you have not responded to my response, to halachically require at least minimal filtering. So in the meantime I have added a quote from your answer (in a thread) to a question here on the site: ‘Homosexuals living together’:
”Licha Darka Achrina's argument seems problematic to me. It is a basic situation of not being intentional, and then there is a possibility or not, and an intentional or an unintentional one. But here it is very close to being intentional. Putting oneself in a state of constant stimulation over years is unlikely to be considered as being unintentional”.
It's hard for me to talk about a real halakhic prohibition, although perhaps there is such a prohibition. Likha Darka Akhirina is also when there is a not very high price for avoiding the prohibition (like going a slightly longer route).
Regarding the comparison to homosexual residences, there are ways to divide. First, the chance of a crime is different. Second, living together is intended for marital relations. It's not following a legitimate path and accidentally encountering a crime.
—————————
Yossi:
A smartphone that has everything, text messages, internet, etc., and has a filter against porn (not necessarily under religious supervision), is an alternative with a not very high price. Right?
So the Rabbi agrees that anyone who does not have at least minimal (non-religious) filtering is considered to be a ‘evil one’?
—————————–
Moshe:
Regarding the first division, your honor probably means that with an iPhone there is a higher chance of sinning.
——————————-
Michi:
Moshe, I don't know what your honor was referring to. What I meant was of course the exact opposite. And simple.
Yossi, as I wrote in my previous message, in this case it turns out that even a small difference in price is considered a minor difference.
———————–
If the Rabbi meant the price of money, then here is a free basic block, which should not affect the speed or quality of use, (its critics claim that it makes it easier too):
http://www.srugim.co.il/112275-%D7%9B%D7%9A-%D7%AA%D7%A1%D7%A0%D7%A0%D7%95-%D7%90%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%A0%D7%98-%D7%91%D7%A1%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%95%D7%91%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%9D
And there are a few more. There is also a block that is defined independently on the computer, and not by the provider.
Again, I mention the fact that about 75 percent of young men in the Western world are regularly exposed to pornographic websites.
Sorry for the rambling, but why doesn't the rabbi agree to at least state that minimal and free filtering, each according to his own understanding, is required by the issue of "not one is evil here, but another is evil here"? What's complicated about that?
What price does someone who asks for minimal filtering pay?
(And again, I don't accept the whole saga of the ultra-Orthodox public surrounding the matter, etc.).
Why did you decide that I'm not ready? I don't think that's true. There's a difference, isn't there?
If the screening is free, then it's definitely even more recommended to do so, and yet if a person tells me it won't happen, I don't see how you can determine halakhically that it will happen to him and that he must take care of the screening? The question was halakhically, and that's what I answered.
This seems like a conversation between the deaf!
The Gemara speaks of a person who is walking on a path and may fail at forbidden sights. Although he can say ‘It won't happen to me’, (he closes his eyes, after all), he is obligated to choose another path (the obligation is not explicit, it is hidden behind the adjective ‘He is wicked’.).
So ’It won't happen to me’ is not a permit.
You extended to prove that the Gemara spoke in the case that the fancy option is not more difficult. I accepted. In our discussion, I proposed a fancy option that is equal in difficulty to the one that is not fancy.
Why is the one who chooses the fancy one not ‘wicked’?
Let's leave aside the question of what the ’halacha’ is. The question is, does such a person fall within the scope of the Gemara's "evil"?
Indeed, a dialogue of blind men. It seems to me that you have not read the Gemara. Where did you see there that it is a situation that he can avoid? On the contrary, in the Rishonim (and in the well-known HaChoir on this issue) it is explained that even if he can, he does not have to avoid.
Sorry Rabbi, I really really don't understand what you meant.
(Here is the Gemara:
And his eyes close, seeing evil – Rabbi Hiyya bar Abba: He who does not look at women while they are washing. Is it my blood? If it is like this, he is wicked! If it is like this, he is a sinner! For ever, it is like this, he is a sinner, and even if it is like this, he is a sinner.
Here is the Rashb–m:
And his eyes close, because he does not close his eyes, he is neither righteous nor wicked.
If it is like this, he is a sinner – and he is a sinner – and even though he closes his eyes, he cannot bring himself closer, but rather to distance himself from the transgression that he committed for a living (page 44:) far from ugliness.
A sinner He – If he looks through his walk and rapes a thorn, and why does the scripture require him to increase his eyes, he is called a thorn in the flesh, and he should close his eyes.
For the sake of his soul – to turn his eyes to another side, and we would say that he is called a thorn in the flesh, and he is a devout person).
So in essence, we are talking about ‘a situation that he can avoid’ as you say, that is, to go another way. After all, we are talking about ’a darca achrina’. And since he did not choose the second way, then his definition is ‘evil’ [without going into the halakhic meaning of the definition].
The ”h was presented in its entirety above in the thread, I did not understand what you were referring to.
By the way, the Letters of Moses (Ahaza 6:6-8) explains the issue.
Perhaps what you mean by “there is no obligation to abstain” is that there is no obligation for a person to stay at home in a way that “this is the end of the world.” Of course, I completely agree with that. But that is not our concern. We are discussing the matter here.
I will write briefly, although there is much to be said.
First, the discussion was about the halacha and not about what is appropriate. It is clear that it is appropriate to block, as I have already written, and no gemara is needed for this. I am discussing the halacha and my argument is that there is no halakhic obligation.
1. First, this statistic of 75% is irrelevant. The question is how many of the people who do not want to do this do it. Most of the world does not see anything wrong with this, and certainly not something forbidden.
2. Even if this statistic were correct, how did you decide that you are following the majority here? As is known, Rabbi Shekap explained in the method of Tuss; that the majority for Ridiya is different from the majority in the Beit Shekup or any other ordinary majority, since even if the majority of the world buys an ox for Ridiya, a person can say that I belong to the minority that buys for slaughter. The same is true in the case of Didan (who can say that I am from the minority that does not enter. After all, it is by his choice. And if he is forced, then he is exempt).
3. The Gemara in B’B does not deal with halakhah, but with what is appropriate. The one who closes his eyes is praised as righteous. The halakhic issue of Darka Acharina is found in Pesachim 25.
4. The Ch’ach there is a dispute about whether there is an obligation to close one’s eyes.
5. Even if there is an obligation to close one’s eyes, this is equivalent to the obligation not to enter a pornography site, and not to the obligation to block the possibility of entering. There is no dispute that there is a prohibition to enter, but the discussion here is about the obligation to block.
6. Even a free blocking can certainly be considered Darka Acharina, since it involves trouble and perhaps also the harassment of the blocking software in unjustified cases, and the slowing down of the device’s operation, and more. As I mentioned, the Rishonim in Pesachim have already insisted that a small difference is already considered Darka Acharina. And the explanation for this is simple, since if there is a small difference, then his walking in this way is not done for the sake of the prohibition but for the small gain, and therefore even if he crosses the prohibition, it is within the bounds of not intending that is permitted by the halakhic law, as in the case of Daki”l Kar”sh.
7. The entire discussion there is about pleasure that comes to a person against his will, but in our case it is about the fear that he will do a forbidden act himself. Therefore, the connection to our issue is difficult on the surface. If we were talking about reading a book or watching a movie that has forbidden parts in it, it would be more similar. But the fear that he will do an act and go in to see is not related to this. A person can say that he will not go in, and therefore, in my opinion, there is no halakhic obligation to block.
Because you will buy a smart device and make a filter for your device and you will not put blood in your house because whoever falls from it will fall
According to a new lesson by Rabbi Shmuel Ariel
Hello, Your Honor
I'm curious about the source of the prohibition against looking at porn, since there is no real woman in front of me, but rather electronic connections that create a fantasy figure. If so, perhaps the entire prohibition of "not turning away" only applies to a real woman, as well as the prohibition of "Ika Darka Achrina Mikri Rashi…
And I would be happy to answer why it is so difficult to refrain from looking at porn?
Your second question, “Why is it so hard to avoid looking at porn?”, shows that the “fantasy image” may be more arousing than a real image, and therefore the prohibition has both an admonition and a remedy.
Best wishes, Samson the Brave
The question is, what is the source for this? I want an authoritative halachic source.
The question is not whether the woman is real or imaginary, but rather what causes forbidden thoughts.
See a summary here: http://ph.yhb.org.il/plus/14-04-06/
In the division that Rabbi Melamed makes, there is room for the claim that there is no concern for adultery with an imaginary figure (although it must be rejected since a real woman is being photographed there), but there is still concern for a nighttime incident.
Isn't there some place for permission, like rape and the like, for the rabbi? Because it really bothers me.
Permission to watch porn? I don't have one.
https://www.shippingfree.co.il/good-phone
Hello Rabbi
On the Ratio website [article ‘The Truth About Torah and Science’] we argued about your words here that you believe that it is possible to cancel rabbinical prohibitions according to need, and this is your language in the first answer: “In a place of great necessity, one should allow the authority of a community rabbi to be violated, without detracting from any other rabbinical prohibition. Especially since you apparently did not participate in his ordination as rabbi of your community, but rather it was imposed on you”.
I would like to hear a clarification from you about your intention, if we assume that this is a prohibition for what it would be permissible to violate [what is the meaning of a prohibition if it can be canceled], and where have we heard that every rabbinical prohibition can be canceled when I really want to [‘overlap’], and what difference does it make whether I participated or not, since the community in which I am located accepted him as a rabbi, and you extend in many places that the acceptance of the public obligates the individual.
I no longer remember the context, but we find in the poskim several places that permitted the transgression of a rabbinic prohibition in times of great need and in places of great necessity. For example: Rama 6:33; Shula Sheld, 2. In particular, obeying the rabbi of the community is an obligation that is not entirely clear, and as is known, many do not listen to him.
And another comment. I do not know what the “rational” website is, but their ratio seems very dubious to me. Before engaging in rational thinking, one must acquire a minimum level of reading comprehension. They cite that I write that in places of great need, a rabbinic prohibition should be permitted, and they translate that I believe that rabbinic prohibitions can be canceled as needed.
You call yourself a rabbi?
Reform!! Epicurean!!!
I wouldn't even get into an argument!.
To Rabbi Michael Avraham. I am the head of a Haredi kollel, I have read many of your articles and your notebooks carefully.
And strong and blessed. I have drawn a lot of wisdom from there.
And yet I think it is not fitting for a wise man like you to include the Haredi world, which has many species and types. And even if most of it is like that.
And the point is that I can remain Haredi, despite being open to hearing other opinions (despite being a kosher phone holder), and I am in favor of the state, etc., since this is not the main point of being Haredi or a religious Zionist.
Rather, the main difference is: that the national religious are very much involved (even in what can be distinguished, and there is no necessity, and no great need to be involved) with the general secular society.
By the way, among the Haredi who have drawn many fences, there is a lot but much less dropout, and my beloved religious Zionist rabbi, Rabbi Yosef Ba Gad, has already confessed this in his book Nachli Ba Gad. When he provided the data.
And yet, according to the truth (and not just from a secular perspective): there is much in common in the divided, and therefore we must act with respect towards one another.
*****
Offensive comment deleted (MA)
To Rabbi Haim Shitrit Shalom
I didn't understand what your words were about. When I talk about the Haredi world, it's a generalization, and that's how it should be understood. There are always exceptions and other groups, and it's still reasonable to me to speak in generalizations when dealing with such issues.
In the second part of your words, you enter into another broad issue, which is the meaning of the term “Haredi”. It has two meanings: opposed to religious-Zionist (not Zionist or anti-Zionist) and opposed to religious-modern (conservative and closed). The term is used in both meanings, and even you yourself mix them up. When I say ‘Haredi’ in the context of this thread, I of course mean the second meaning, which in my opinion is the more important and more fundamental. The question of Zionism and the attitude towards the state is of no importance (and perhaps also meaning) in my opinion. By the way, according to your description, you are definitely not Haredi in either of the two senses: neither anti-Zionist nor open. So in what sense are you Haredi? The clothes? The ”kosher” phone?
Regarding the question of dropping out that you mentioned, it is a long one and there is no room here to go into it. But I have a lot to say about it. Like many others, you state correct facts (probably) but are very wrong in interpreting the situation and its implications. I have commented on this more than once on the site here.
Rabbi: So in what sense are you Haredi? The clothes? The “kosher” phone?
Me: 97% of men watch porn. Or something like that. But they are completely different from porn actors. It’s like a person who cooks for himself at home or opens a chain of restaurants and does that all day long. An Haredi can surf the Internet and do whatever he wants there. But that has no concept in the practical world. It is limited to this virtual reality only, which, as we know, is for cowards behind a keyboard. As soon as a person takes virtuality to reality, he is a completely different person. The Haredi did not go to university. He will not talk freely with girls like the non-Haredi. He will not eat from “pitam” because it brings them closer. He will wear black and white so that when he walks around Tel Aviv on a Thursday night, people will whistle at him and tease him. And the traditionalists will hopefully tell him to stay away from Tel Aviv. So that people will consider his religious feelings. But if you look like them and act like them in non-essential things, the chances of being dragged along by them increase. There is identification, as opposed to the Haredi who is alienated. But since when has the rabbi been interested in psychology?
There are falls, the question is whether they are part of a paved road or whether they themselves are the road.
On the 4th of Tevet 5771
To Aaron, greetings,
In what you have learned about Rach, who wrote ‘bahada mechata’ in the בטבעט; and not in the טבעט, as it is written in Berakhot 24. –
It is worth noting that in the other places where the phrase ה appears in the Talmud (Shabbat Kameh, Pesachim 44, Chulin 48), the phrase is: ‘bahada mechita’, and Rashi and the author of the edited text interpreted that ’mechita’ is ‘weaving’ (As Onkelos translates ‘work of weaving– ‘work of life’, and the meaning is ‘you weave in one weaving two different things’.
Only in Blessings Kad appears ‘mechta’ without Y’, the accepted pronunciation among scholars is ‘m’ in the beginning and ’ in vain. If this pronunciation tradition is ancient, it may indicate a different interpretation from that of Rashi and the Aruch (who interpreted ‘mechta’ = weaving). It is possible that the pronunciation tradition is based on the understanding of ‘mechta’ As a mistake, the meaning of the phrase is, "You are trying to sew different things with one needle."
With blessings, Sha'at
Of course, even if we say that there is simply a spelling error here, it happens to everyone, even to Ramada. There is no need to stab the one who makes a spelling mistake with a sharp needle. Even King David said: "Who can understand the errors of those who make mistakes?" (Psalm 19)
Sh”t, this message has already been deleted.
Hasdiel, he presented things as an authentic view and not as a fall. Furthermore, what you described is also not an accurate definition, and so on.
Does the rabbi have a blocked phone?
I can easily hack any cell phone with supervision and turn it into a normal one whenever I want, so what permission do the rabbis have for a programmer who needs a cell phone for work purposes?
I bought a cell phone like this and was told that it was impossible to hack into the device and remove the protection, and in less than a day I did so, and then I returned the device with the protection it had. I know many other people who can do what I did easily, and when I wrote to the rabbis about the matter, they admitted that it is possible for someone who understands to do whatever they want with a cell phone, make it kosher, or hack it without it in a few minutes.
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