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Jewish Answers to Ancient Philosophical Questions

שו”תCategory: philosophyJewish Answers to Ancient Philosophical Questions
asked 6 years ago

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מיכי Staff answered 6 years ago
A. As for the tree falling in the forest, it has nothing to do with quantum mechanics and the difficulty of deducing from experience (the induction problem). Today, it is clear to any reasonable person that when a tree falls, it does not make a sound because sound is a conscious phenomenon. The tree is more of a pressure wave in the air, which when it hits a drumhead creates a sound within the human consciousness. Therefore, if there is no one there, there is a pressure wave but no sound. The evidence he brings from a false prayer is extremely problematic, because it is based on the perception of the Sages (and ancient science) that there are gaps in physics. But today we know that there are not (except in the quantum micro). In his words, he assumes, like many others, that there are miracles above nature and there are miracles within nature. And it is not. Every miracle is above nature. A miracle means that according to the laws of nature, X was supposed to happen, but God intervened and Y happened. In other words, it is an exception to nature. A very common mistake, but still a mistake. I didn’t understand what this had to do with “humanistic” Judaism. Does he mean “dependence on people”? As in literally saying humanism? That’s not the accepted terminology. on. In the ship of Theseus, a distinction must be made between inanimate objects and humans. Humans have a soul that transforms the entirety of their cells into an organism, and therefore even when all the cells have changed, it is the same person. With regard to a ship, it is simply a matter of definition. Incidentally, Thos and Ritva disagreed on this question of whether someone who vowed never to enter his father’s house and the house fell and was rebuilt can enter it or not. Evidence of impurity is not necessary. In this regard, impurity is a new tool (as mentioned, in the Dummim it is a matter of definition). By the way, his last sentence nullifies the meaning of the whole thing. A tool is considered a tool in halakha according to its use. That which is intended for human use and produced by man for that purpose is a tool. Therefore, when the tool breaks, its name is nullified. But this does not teach about reality itself, but rather about the definition of a tool. Therefore, ontological conclusions should not be drawn from this. third. Avi Sagi devoted an entire book to the dilemma of euthyphro in Judaism. In my opinion, Sagi himself was wrong, and so was your grandson, since there is a question of definition here. In the world as it is before us, the good is good by virtue of being so. But God created the world to be like this. In a world with a character and nature different from ours, we have no possibility of discussing. Therefore, both sides of the dilemma are imaginary. It is the same as asking whether the sum of the angles in a triangle is necessarily 180 or is it just a contingent fact. God created space straight, and then necessarily the sum is 1980. But He could have created space curved, and then it would have been different. A little related to your article on the two types of necessity (knowledge and choice): true by necessity or necessarily true. Now all his evidence falls apart, of course. He states that the benefit preceded the mitzvah, but the benefit stems from the structure of the world that God created. I completely reject his comment about observing the mitzvot when it is known that they are of no benefit. First, he assumes an identity between the mitzvot and the moral-social good. I disagree with that. Second, he assumes that listening to the voice of the Rabbis is not in itself good. I did not understand why (the author of the Haran’s sermons writes exactly this: Whoever knows that the Rabbis were wrong should still listen to them, because not listening to them is also a sin that brings spiritual and social harm). Third, he assumes that one should listen to the voice of the Rabbis who were wrong, but this is not an exact identification. There are many opinions on the matter, starting with the issue of parenting in the second chapter, “He erred in the mitzvah of listening to the words of the sages.”

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א' replied 6 years ago

Greetings to you.
A. - Regarding your statement that there is a problem in relying on the Sages' view, the article was written with the opposite mindset. There are additional important virtues in the biblical text in the field of philosophy in general and in the fields of ethics and the philosophy of language in particular.
The great skepticism that prevails in philosophy today does not allow for any proof or stable basis for agreement between people. Philosophy and ethics in particular must be based on education, on culture. For the sake of social existence, society needs a social contract that will be binding on everyone, and this was one of the main goals of the giving of the Torah. In the Middle Ages, Maimonides compiled the Jewish canon in the field of thought, faith, modeled on the tenets of Judaism. I see these tenets, and primarily the tenet of Torah from heaven, which were accepted in the communities of Israel as axioms, as a stable basis for the authoritative growth of Jewish philosophy.
Therefore, relying on the absolute acceptance of the Mishnah and the Gemara in all the Diaspora of Israel, I chose to develop specifically Sage sources into philosophical views concerning other issues.
-The words were written from the belief that all miracles can be considered as within nature (except for the ten things that were created on the eve of Shabbat between the sunsets). The wonder at the remote possibility of their existence always accompanies them, but they are not unperceived as natural. In any case, the main purpose of miracles is to save the believer, and not necessarily to prove their divine origin. (Regarding the sign and miracle that come to encourage those who are weak in faith, we are warned not to take it too seriously – “The sign and miracle that spoke to you, saying, Let us go and serve other gods…”).
B. -Of course, calling the name of the vessel is, as you say, a matter of definition, and refers to the human use of the vessel. So with the ship of Theseus and so with the tools mentioned in the mishna. Apart from that, I do not find any ontological meaning in the artificial name of the tool.
-Indeed, in the use of the term ‘humanism’ the intention is that man is the measure of the world. As explained at the end of the third question: “It is humanistic, since it refers to laws, the purpose of which is the eternal good, as revolving around man as his condition.”
C. -The reference to the widespread use of the word ‘good’ as usually referring to relative and not absolute good. Thus, the commandments came as a response to reality in order to improve it.
-That is precisely how the supreme ’good’ of hearing the voice of the court was mentioned, and it surpasses current moral-social good. Regarding the discussion you referred to from Tractate Horiot, to the best of my recollection, it is only discussed there when the court would have reversed itself if it had understood it properly, and not when it was stubborn in its claim (as in the case of Aknai's oven, where they insisted against Rabbi Eliezer). Am I right?

Best regards,

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

1. I understand that you accepted my main comment about the falling tree. In your words, you only addressed the question of why to rely on the sages. But even in this you gave me a didactic educational answer, while I asked a fundamental question. If the sages are not a valid source on which to build philosophy because they are wrong in these areas, it does not help to say that such a construction is useful because people trust them. People who trust them are wrong. I argue that the sages were not qualified in philosophy or science, and have authority only in halacha. This is similar to the situation in my opinion if you were to base a theory on the sages that the Earth is not round because people accept their authority on these issues. Is this reasonable in your opinion?
The belief that miracles can be considered part of nature (which is expressed by quite a few rishonim and thinkers) is wrong, as I explained. My intention is to say that miracles constitute an exception to the laws of nature that we are familiar with. Therefore, the question of when they were created (before or within the world) is irrelevant. In short, when a miracle occurs, the laws of nature that are familiar to us are temporarily suspended. All this is regardless of the role of the miracle (whether to save the believer or not). I am talking about the very existence of the miracle itself.
B. But if this is so, then the conclusion that the derivation of the impurity laws regarding consciousness that generates reality has fallen, since this is a definition and not an ontic phenomenon. So what does it have to do with quantum theory? By the way, even quantumists no longer really believe in this today (they did an experiment with two cracks without human consciousness and there was still a collapse). Think of a concept that is defined according to the person, such as a “comfortable chair to sit in”. Let’s say that the person is now thin and this chair is no longer comfortable for him. Would you argue that you see from this that the person’s consciousness affects reality? Is it correct to draw an analogy from this to “humanism” in the form of quantum theory?
C. As I explained, there is no connection between the evidence you presented and Euthyphro's dilemma. It doesn't matter whether goodness is relative or absolute.
Regarding the one who errs in the mitzvah of listening to the words of the sages, opinions were divided among the Rishonim. Some wrote as you said. I remember there is an article by Yaakov Blidstein on this, and many more.

All the best and much success,

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