About the new law

Not much happens.. But I definitely agree with almost everything the Rabbi said, I'll just make a reservation, if there is no age limit for sex change, there is no reason for there to be an age limit for conversion treatments,
I'm definitely fed up, enough with this PC! Enough! Conversion treatments are a violation of rights, after all, people want to be normal like everyone else, why isn't it a violation when other patients such as intellectual disabilities are treated with medication or physical disabilities?
Sex change due to a deviation (trans people of all kinds). With far-reaching consequences, it is legitimate and they even made an educational TV series about it. (Transkids is called it.)
Oh, and one more thing, you are afraid of the consequences of the treatments... A study that was published reveals that two out of three transgender people have attempted suicide! Interestingly, here the consequences are not really interesting. And the culprits are of course us because we didn't accept them...
https://mobile.mako.co.il/pride-news/global/Article-5390abc0c168931006.htm

For another thing, LGBT youth have one of the highest rates of suicide attempts.
And over a quarter of transgender youth reported a history of at least one suicide attempt, and about 40% of them had a history of self-harming behaviors. So let's assume that some conversion treatments cause harm, but the current outlook is no better!
From Wikipedia https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%90%D7%91%D7%93%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%99_%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%A8_%D7%9C%D7%94%D7%98%22%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D

A generation of idiots. Today, normal is not normal, because being normal is not normal.
No, if you are normal, you are an anachronistic.. and so on.

The Rabbi's end is interesting. Everyone has an agenda. In other words, what the rabbi writes about every subject except mathematics also stems from the

Just for the record, the suicide attempt rate among religious gays is much higher than among secular gays.

M This is just a better reason why I should do conversion therapy, so that my children, God forbid, will commit suicide.

M Another thing, regarding suicide attempts, there is no complete indication, because not everyone who tries to commit suicide knows about it, the only data that is accurate is suicides and there you need to check if there is a difference, sometimes suicide attempts are not real attempts but a psychological need to receive proper treatment from others, by causing a conscience, apparently the religious rely on the conscience of those around them not to judge them only from a religious point of view.
On the other hand, among the secular, gay is an insult regardless of religion and there is no room for forgiveness because it is simply obscene, for example if a child repeats a question they are angry at him mainly because of his religious background and if he breaks the strings of his soul with a conscience by supposedly attempting suicide there is a chance that they will accept him and stop harassing him, with the secular you are simply a repulsive person and your conscience will not help you too much. .

I have quite a few problems with what you wrote (both on a methodological level and from a moral perspective on the situation), but we'll stop here.

Why stop outside and we will open our doors, listen and make room for arguments?

Otter Gizogt

Tam, there are a lot of flaws in your response (the methodology and the conclusions. Regardless of the fact that I disagree with your opinion).
Members of the trans community do not attempt suicide because they are treated warmly and sympathetically, not because they were accepted into society and then realized that they suffer from a mental health problem, and not because of social tolerance towards them.
The distorted view of people around the world is what causes suicides*. In the article you sent, for example, 95% of trans people reported that they had difficulty finding a job because of transphobic attitudes (what's the connection? Because people look at them as lepers and keep them away from everywhere possible, they commit suicide). 43% reported alienation from their family.
The conclusion of the discussion was that the attitude towards trans people is different from the attitude towards ordinary people, and that is precisely why they prefer to take their own lives. I didn't understand how you came to the exact opposite conclusion.
I think you also understand that suicides happen mainly in conservative societies, those that do not accept the difference of the person in front of them.

Shabbat Shalom.

To solve the problem of the high suicide rate among rapists in Spain, the establishment suggested that they convert to Christianity.

Shoel. Hello.
A few things.
A. Arab homophobia is a fact, and it is not going to change in the next fifty years for the better, just as peace is not going to come in this negligible period of time.
So you have to be practical, and right now being a member of the community involves a great chance of suicide.
B. There is no such thing as forced conversion therapy, we are talking about people who want to be normal, like the vast majority of people, people who have fertility problems go to therapy, sometimes psychological and physiological, and what is legitimate, the whole discourse as if conversion therapy is forced is a lie and a lie.
C. You talked about conservative societies with high suicide rates, I would be happy to receive references, by the way, the liberal and pluralist shopping for some reason does not accept the conservatives, tolerance and pluralism only when it concerns the opposite. Common sense is not pluralism but fundamentalism, see Mara Datra's book, Truth and Unstable.
D. Why are the community members named after their sexual orientation? Etc. Who would suck a burger or, alternatively, ski as a treat, be called after his intense desires for a burger and ski?! No, in a simple matter, the community members, for the most part, are perverted people who have their heads there all day long, it defines their identity, and we all have to endure it, I don't know why pedophiles aren't in the community groups, and are thrown in prison for honor, after all, that's their identity and what do they want from them? Apparently our world is too conservative about pedophiles... It's a shame we don't have the suicide numbers in the ”f” community, which will probably join the ”htev”f family by the end of our century.
How did the rabbi end, everyone here has an agenda, neither pluralism nor conservatism, one big PC bullshit.
Hope you manage to understand my methodology, R’ shovel.
I'll tell you what I'm doing. That's it.

And here we have the buds.
https://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/3377912

A significant part of the suicides of young LGBT people stems from the drug parties that are organized for them to trap and seduce them due to the aging community's need for a stream of "young blood".

Drugs stimulate the need for sexual excitement, but the feeling of emptiness at the end of the party intensifies the feeling of depression and the young person enters a trap with no way out, a vicious circle of pleasure and emptiness and repeats, God forbid.

It is not for nothing that the sages said about this: "You are lost in the wilderness, wandering and losing your way."

With best wishes, Sh.

Shchel, your words are almost a parody of the religious-Haredi approach to the phenomenon. Instead of examining the phenomenon, you are blasting the word "Wort" for seven blessings from the Yiddish language in real language. Excuse me, but this is really shameful.
I understand that religious LGBT youth participate in more drug parties than secular LGBT youth. Now everything is clear.

A. A delusional claim (I didn't understand what you were claiming, you just stated a fact). It doesn't seem like anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism, or anti-Judaism are phenomena that will disappear from the world anytime soon. So?
(Do you expect gays to deny themselves? Maybe Jews to observe the commandments only within the D’ Amot? It seems like that would solve a lot of problems.)

B. It seems to me that 13/14 year old children who go for such treatments don't have a choice. It does seem reasonable to me to allow a person who wants to go for such treatment after the age of 18 – to go for such treatment (which should be supervised).

C. There is definitely a reference. For example: https://www.kamoha.org.il/?p=10325
You are also invited to read the second link you referenced in the previous response:
According to several groups, this is related to heterocentric cultures and institutionalized homophobia, in some cases, including the use of LGBT rights issues as a political wedge, such as in the current efforts to stop the legalization of same-sex marriage.[9][10][11] It has been shown that despondency, depression, and drug use among LGBT people increased significantly after the enactment of new laws that discriminate against those belonging to the gay community.[12]
The article unequivocally identifies homophobia and bullying against the LGBT community as a trigger for suicides, not the fact that they are gay or that they are more accepted in the community.
(By the way, I definitely read the book “Truth and Unstable.” I enjoyed it a lot, but I didn’t get the impression that I was the fundamentalist in the discussion.)

D. If I understood the first argument raised here correctly, I completely agree. There is no reason to reduce a person. He is not just gay, that is not what defines him. Whether the act is forbidden or permitted is another question, when you lower the level to a person’s body and play in the mud – no good is certainly produced.
Regarding the argument about pedophiles, it seems that treating a pedophile differently is no less shocking. Openness, inclusion and understanding of such people (those with the tendency, not the attackers) – it is what will make our society better. If a pedophile is not ashamed of his tendency and can take care of himself, it will be better (and not only for him). A person who attacked small children, of course, attacked small children. He is judged according to the act and not according to the tendency. This is why pedophilia is not supported, it is not done with the consent of both parties.
(By the way, it's a bit strange that you asked for a reference, and immediately afterwards you stated: “In a simple matter, the members of the community, the vast majority of them are perverted people who have their heads there all day, it defines their identity, and we all have to tolerate it”.)

There is no doubt that this message presented more coherent thinking, but it is still full of mistakes and generalizations (if not failures).
Love you very much, dear man, Shabbat Shalom.

I don't have time to elaborate right now.
But, bringing a reference to a study on religious homosexual suicides from the religious homosexuals' website, is like bringing evidence against the state from a Satmar website.
Regarding B. Why is it that when a person wants to change their sex, it is acceptable even at this age? Because of the TV series Transkids, they simply fool the children into thinking the opposite!
Love you too, Chavez.

And your honor.
Why are you attacking Shatzel, do you have information that there are indeed suicides among more religious gays?

Sh”ts, what do you think about the drug parties at the ”Mir”Yeshiva”?

Tam – I heard about the high suicide rate from 2 religious psychologists (one of whom is even a rabbi). Actually, it's not very surprising given that they are already prone to disaster and in religious society they feel more rejection and dissonance. A sad situation indeed…

Tam and Schal. I suggest you think more about the analogy to the rapists in Spain and what you would offer them (Judaism = to get better. Inquisition = hostile public attitude that is reinforced by a certain religious perception. Converting to Christianity = to give up an essential component of life). The analogy alone is not really true, of course, but there is not much to try in a situation of a sealed and evil foreskin. I wish you both to walk down the street in winter and a car drives really fast and splashes a whole puddle on you. Amen, amen, and so on.

Bonam – This has nothing to do with malice but with a lack of understanding of the situation.
A few years ago, until I studied the subject and encountered religious fanatics, I too held a different view (although not as presented here). It's only when you meet the people that you realize how much you didn't understand anything before…

Tam and all the rest – See for example a little here (as an introduction to a slightly less superficial understanding of the situation):

In my opinion, it plays on a powerful feeling of wickedness. They will say I'm getting carried away, but to me it reminds me of the slavery era. In the sense that the public establishment itself crushes you against the sun. And every narrow-minded asshole thinks he's something. Let them go to hell. If my messages are deleted because there are no arguments and there are personal grievances, they will be deleted. In most of the discussions I have in life, I'm pretty cold-hearted. But this topic gets on my nerves and I'm already tired of arguing about it. Let those who still have the strength discuss it and I'll filter out curses from the side. I don't know any religious right-wingers. Yes, I'm a friend of secular right-wingers, and I defend them with my incompetent hand against the attitude of large parts of the environment, and in particular the attitude of many religious people.

Dear M.
I saw the attached video, Daniel seems like a salt of the earth guy.
Ummm, I would love for you to explain to me what is different about a person who tells you that he is sexually attracted to his mother, as well as his sisters and other incestuous people. It is likely that if you are a true tolerant person, you will send him to treatment in the hope that his serious sexually transmitted disease will be cured. It is likely that his difficulty is ten times greater than that of cute Daniel. He does not yet have an organization that contains him, not religious or even secular. Maybe a closed institution if and when he shows signs of affection for his sister.
I would love for you to explain to me how they are different? (I am not talking about pedophiles anymore, if a man is sexually attracted to a 16-year-old girl, he is dangerous to the public.)

After all.
Anyone who is abnormal and poor needs to be helped, either by a psychologist or by medication, what is wrong with that?! Damn it!

Before you go for help – the question is whether it is a ”deviation” or something absolutely negative.
It is clear that the Torah prohibits the actions – and therefore if a religious person can make it so that he does not need this prohibition – so it is right for him to do so (of course, only as long as it does not endanger him).
However, if there was no religious prohibition I do not see the need for him to do so (unless he chooses) and I certainly do not see it as a “deviation”.

The difference between us is not whether it is right or wrong for religious people who have this attraction to try not to need it (if they can of course) but on 2 points:
1. You see it as something negative a priori (regardless of the Torah prohibition) – and I do not. I see it as a sexual attraction and nothing more. Just as one is attracted to women with wavy hair, one to women with straight hair – and one to men (and by the way – you have to differentiate between attraction to person X or sexual attraction to public X and emotional attraction. These are completely different things. But it doesn't really matter to our discussion).
2. You think they could have treatments that would probably help them. My impression is that it wouldn't help and historically it has also caused people harm (I don't know what the situation is today. I assume it has improved a bit)

Therefore, since I don't see this as a deviation and I don't think they have a way out – I probably won't be angry at them or hate them. I will see them as people who have a challenge in life that I have no way of getting them out of (because halakhically there is a prohibition. Even if it's not clear what its clear limit is).

M I would love definitions.

For example, I think that deviation means deviating from the norm, and therefore homosexuality is a deviation from the norm. Someone who is attracted to a woman is within the norm. Indeed, within the spectrum of women, there are types of curly hair, etc.

If conversion therapy were ineffective, they would not be performed. I will tell you something. Successful conversion therapy probably remains a secret. The person embarked on a new path and prefers not to tell others about his or her abnormal history.

If what you mean by the term deviation is a small part of the statistics, then statistically speaking you are certainly right. In this context, I hope you are consistent and call deviants also ’rednecks’ or those who adhere to the religion of Israel (because they are also a small percentage in the world).

However, it is clear to me that when using the term deviation you do not mean only a percentage of the population but also a percentage that possesses something that is “defective” and if that is so – then we disagree (and if I am wrong in my assessment – forgive me. But I hope you will be consistent on the subject in other areas as well)

Regarding treatments – they were also conducted during a period when I am not aware that they were not useful, and therefore this is not evidence. The reason they are conducted is first and foremost because of the religious dissonance that requires a prohibition on the issue. I do believe that there has been an improvement, but as one religious professor who was a therapist told me, “I have never been able to change anyone, and I have never met anyone else who has succeeded or who has changed.”
Indeed, we all (including myself) know people who testify that they have changed, but how do you know that they were homosexual from the start and not bisexual (unconsciously)?

In this context, I prefer the accepted scientific picture, which unequivocally says that it is impossible to change. Yes, it is clear that the research is biased by ideology, but even in fields loaded with ideology, there are studies here and there (including those against the injections). Only in this case, there is not a single study that found that these treatments are useful. What did it find? That people were greatly harmed by them.

As mentioned, I am not speaking in a vacuum, but I studied the issue in depth and breadth as part of a project in which I participated, and these are my conclusions. Yes, I used to think otherwise too.

(Again, it's possible that in the last 3 years they've invented a new treatment out of thin air and people aren't getting hurt by it anymore. I'm very satisfied that this is the case. He's not like that until proven otherwise)

M
Tell me, if changing people to transgender works, why do you think changing a fully normative person (in the norm inherent in the nature of all animals) wouldn't work?!

Cutting off their limbs is not called changing their nature.

Tam, the whole issue of gender is an issue that revolves around social construction (boys usually behave this way, people usually behave this way).
Sexual attraction is not a social construction or something, but a type of attraction, one that is inherent in a person. Trans change is simply a social change (behaving like how the opposite sex behaves in society, dressing like it, and sometimes also trying to resemble it physiologically). A change of orientation, on the other hand, is a change of nature inherent in a person (do you think you can change your orientation?), the analogy is puzzling (if not a little demagogic).

On the 7th of April 2017,

On the drug parties in the LGBT community, see, for example, the articles: ‘Why does the gay community consume more drugs? The confession of a proud Stalin’, on the ‘Canna’ website. The ‘S's inclination towards hard drugs is also mentioned there; ‘Gays use drugs at a rate of 25% of straight men, lesbian women consume drugs 40% more than straight women’, on the ‘Hadashot Knesset’ website, where, among others, Linor from the ‘Igi’ organization writes That drug parties are the youth's 'entry ticket' to the LGBT community; 'Drug Parties and the Gay Community', on the website of the Association for the Promotion of LGBTQI.

In short: the situation there is grim;

And the solution is to choose a religious one, to hold on to 'blind obedience', in the Torah that is 'Ayelet Ahavim' and 'Yalet Chen', that the more one engages in it and enjoys it, the less one suffers from the provocation of 'Yitzra Daeriyot'. Those whose inclinations are normal suffer no less than 'Yitzra Daeriyot', and should not despair, even when they fail. Get up and move on. Do not believe those who push you to despair and hopelessness. If God has imposed a difficult trial on you, it is a sign that He believes that you have high abilities to cope.

Regarding the possibility of effective psychological treatment, there is an article by Dr. Zvi Mozes from the Shiloh Institute that is available online. It is divided into several categories: There are situations where the tendency to be homosexual is a symptom of another mental problem, in which treatment also resolves the symptom; there are situations where the tendency to be homosexual is not obvious, and then it is easier to start a family. The attraction does not stop, but one develops the ability to cope with it. The most difficult situations are when the tendency is obvious, but even those who have strong faith and a determined will can overcome it. Can cope with proper professional guidance.

Also known in this field are Rabbi Aharl’e Harel, and Dr. Eliyahu Ackerman, from the ‘Bekdusha’ Institute, who deal with the problem with professional knowledge and cautious optimism. After all, you need to know that a psychologist's treatment is ‘cognitive therapy’, which helps the patient to know himself, and to know what strengthens him and what weakens him, and from the deep acquaintance he develops with his personality – he develops ways of dealing with his problems.

With best wishes, Sh”t

Paragraph 3, line 7
… But even in this situation, whoever has faith…

As long as a person is on the continuum, the solution is simpler, because one marries only one partner. Even if a person is 99% attracted to men but has one percent capacity for affection for a woman, he only needs to find one unique and special woman whom he will love and start a family with. Then he will filter out all the attractive men, just as every married man has to “filter out” all the women except his “girlfriend and ally” (and to a certain extent it is easier for a man to “filter out” men from being attracted to them, since they are not dressed in provocatively revealing clothing).

The more difficult problem is when the man is at the end of the “continuum”, when he is a “gynophobe” who is unable to feel affection for any woman. And a woman who is at the other end of the spectrum, who is ‘androphobic’ who is unable to feel any affection for any man. Here, of course, the story is more difficult, but there is still hope that a person's deep acquaintance with themselves, and with the help of professional counseling – will reveal the reason for that terrible rejection that does not allow a person any feeling of affection for the opposite sex, and when the reason for the rejection is found – there is a chance that the &#8217ice’will be dissolved.

This is what it seems to the patient in the analysis with common sense, without being a professional.

Best regards, Sh”t

The Wikipedia entry ‘Suicide in Homosexual Teenagers’ shows that the high percentage of suicide is among those who define themselves as ’LGBT”. In contrast, those who have the opposite sexual orientation, but have not defined themselves as ’LGBT” have a suicide rate no different from the rest of the population – meaning that the self-definition as –LGBT, the loss of hope for normal sexuality – is the cause of suicide. Indeed, despair is dangerous.

Best regards, Sh”t

It is interesting that we do not discuss the increased drug use in the LGBT population as a factor increasing suicidality, and that we do not try to make a connection between lesbianism and ’gynophobia’ or ‘androphobia’, which are known and treated phenomena, etc. Apparently there are ’politically correct’ solutions 🙂

In the context of what is drawn to this and that, one must examine whether people and women are one species with varying shades, like hunger before him as a field and a field, or whether they are two separate species with a bag for this and a bag for that, like a person whose hunger and thirst will not be satisfied by all the fields in the world. And we will consider in the case of the one and the other and are classified as one species whether he is single for the purpose of a certain type or married for all his words. And we will consider that they are separate matters as is clear from the word "klab". That is, the one who is bound to be beaten is bound to be beaten and this is his punishment. And the one who is bound to be killed is bound to be killed and this is his punishment. And the one who is bound to be this and that, why should not his punishment be death and beatings be one punishment when forty beatings are one punishment. But certainly, I will listen to the Kalb, because it is said that this one without the other and this one without the other and they coincided by chance, even though the root of their matter is one, they stand for the punishment of the M.M. in their judgment (and therefore it belongs to the new law of Kalb). And the same applies to a homosexual who has no advice except in a double marriage. And it cannot be said that there is no closeness to each other, and what is the matter of inclination in the case of Sugia, even though they are matters of taste from the M.M. Gemara, I demand. And the most important thing is to go to the S.D. And it seems to me that a homosexual who is unable to direct himself according to the law that they are two sexes should go and undergo conversion treatments, and that is simple.

Oh my, what nonsense. How can you measure the rate of suicidal gays among those who haven't come out?! I'm amazed!

(In any case, I'd love references. In all the articles I've read so far, gays have gone into depression/committed suicide, etc. because of the concealment, lack of acceptance, and bullying against you)

Correction: The last word is “etc” and not “against you”

On the 7th of April 2017

To Shuel – Hello,

Regarding what I wrote – the source is, as I mentioned, the Wikipedia entry ‘LGBT youth suicides’, next to note 15: ”It appears that the rates of suicide and suicide attempts among heterosexual youth are similar, more or less, to those among youth with same-sex tendencies who do not define themselves as LGBT [15]’.

Best regards, Sh”C

The explanation for their depression due to ‘minority stress’ raises a question: After all, for about 30 years they have been receiving complete legitimacy and a warm embrace from the establishment, while persecuting and denouncing anyone who speaks out against them. And yet they are ‘poor’? Maybe it is precisely being the persecutors and denunciators that intensifies their ‘feeling of misery’?

The patent of demanding to permit incest or its accessories with claims backed by medical certification that the person is going to die if he is not given what he wants was already tried in the days of the Sages, and they responded firmly: "Death and do not bother him", and even "Death and do not talk with him behind the fence", and even in the case of a free man, they made it worse because of a family defect or because there would be no procitem in incest.

A person from Israel is required to restrain and control his urges and not to fail in incest, and when he does so he will discover that not only is he not going to die but his life will be good and happy. The sexual urge is intended to help a person establish a healthy family, live in love with his covenant wife, and raise their children in love. The more one blocks the instinctive desires that do not lead to the improvement and settlement of the world, the more one Yes, the heart opens to the love it deserves.

Best regards, Sh”t

To all LGBT lovers, what's different about married guys who occasionally want to diversify and have a hard time using the same bread in the basket? Why are they immoral in that they have strong urges and occasionally have sex?

Dear Jaacap, it seems you didn't understand what was written in the sentence you sent me. First of all, I recommend reading the study: https://jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567(09)00016-1/fulltext.
It says there that boys who identified as heterosexual *but* had same-sex attractions/same-sex behavior (it happens that completely straight men sometimes have sex with a man or have had thoughts about it,) are the ones who attempted suicide at a rate similar to heterosexual teenagers.
I, personally, am completely gay. I have never been attracted to a woman, and like me, not much else. I don't “define” myself as gay for the simple reason that I haven't come out of the closet, but believe me, life there is not fun at all in a religious society.
You and Tam are ignoring the problem in an almost brutal way. The word "gay" today is still considered a derogatory word in most societies (especially ours, a religious society), homosexual relations are forbidden in many countries, children and teenagers are expelled from their homes for their inclination and are left without a trace. Comparing this to "a person who seeks thrills" or saying that they are "fully legitimized in society" is ignorance at best.

“Almost”

In the year 2017, Shalom HaShalom,

To the questioner, greetings,

For a believer, the problem of homosexual inclination is not a problem with the religious society, but a problem that God Almighty has placed before him, who commanded in His Torah, “Live with a woman whom you love” and forbade same-sex marriage.

A problem created by society. Perhaps it can be solved by putting a little pressure on society and everything will be fine, but God Almighty cannot be “bent.”

On the other hand, since God created the problem, it is to be assumed that He also created a solution to the problem, that the more we work hard and search for the solution, it will also be found, and then man will emerge from darkness into great light.

Therefore, even if the solution is not currently visible on the horizon, our modern world is full of problems that were thought to be hopeless, for which advanced science has found a cure.

In the meantime, see the directions for the solution that I suggested in my response, Between the Continuum and the Ends. In the first paragraph, I suggested a possible direction for the solution for those who have even a small percentage of attraction to the opposite sex.

In the second paragraph, I hypothesized that a complete lack of attraction to the opposite sex, in a man, stems from a phenomenon of the type ‘gynophobia’, a feeling of rejection and aversion to women, while in a woman, it is a type of ‘androgyny’, a rejection and aversion to men.

Both ’gynophobia’ and ’androphobia’ are known in research and there is research literature about them and probably also treatment methods that allow a man or woman to thaw the ’ice’ that leads to a complete blockage of the possibility of affection towards the opposite sex.

You are much more present in the research literature than I am. Perhaps you will find a practical direction that can advance you and those who suffer like you, and allow them to establish a family life with members of the opposite sex, as the Creator intended in His Torah.

When a person ‘asks’ and seeks a solution – there is a good chance that it will be ’ helpful. ’You have worked hard and found – believe’

Best regards, Schutz Levinger

Sha”tz, peace and blessings. It's fun to see such a respectful response from you.

I think there's a high chance* that you're right that at the end of the day, if the Torah forbade it – apparently the obligation applies to everyone. People with difficult trials remain obligated to the mitzvot (even a person with one ear is obligated to hear the parshat ‘Zachor’. An analogy isn't much in this context, but the principle is understandable).

The “divine solution” in this sense is simply suppressing the urge. I say this with great regret, because conversion therapy is simply something that doesn't work (and, on the contrary, may worsen other problems).

*There's a high probability of interpreting an interpretation similar to the one found in the rabbi. The act is forbidden only for someone who truly has no attraction to women, for example. You need to look deeper.

In any case, regarding gynophobia and androphobia (I will only talk about gynophobia in the next paragraph, but I think there is a parallel), I think you are a little confused (a little ironic that I am telling you this, but entertaining anyway). Gynophobia is an extreme and irrational fear of women. I am not afraid of women, on the contrary, many times conversations with them are actually more pleasant for me. I do feel disgusted by women's genitals. I have no animosity/fear/hatred towards them. Lack of attraction. The only attempt I know of to link the two is in Havelock's article from 1896, but it really seems that there is almost no research on the subject.
In any case, even if there are a few men whose problem lies in gynophobia, this is not the case in the vast majority of cases (it is actually easier for gays to talk to women).

Fasting is beneficial, dear man.

In the 2nd of April 2017,

To Shuel, Hello,

“Phobia” can be “fear” or “rejection” or “disgust” (as, for example, with the concept of “homophobia,” which is more of a “disgust”).

In any case, your description reveals a very interesting reality.. a contrast between the emotional plane, where it is possible to create a very deep bond, even soulmate, with a woman, and on the other hand, on the physical plane, there is a lack of attraction and even partial rejection.

The hope for a relationship in such a situation can be reached when one focuses on the inner beauty of the personality, and then the deep emotional love – may dissolve the physical rejection (by the way, this can also happen in a partner who suffers from a serious physical injury that results in a repulsive appearance despite the wonderful personality).

So maybe there is a situation where the great affection for the personality ‘will dissolve’ the physical rejection?

With greetings, Sh”t

By the way, the reluctance to internal organs of the opposite sex may be a consequence of the habit that comes from the boundaries of modesty to be reluctant to internal organs of the opposite sex. A phenomenon that quite a few young religious couples probably suffer from at the beginning of their journey, who suddenly after the wedding have to make a ‘switch” In the head, and start bringing closer what has been kept apart all these years, and for that too there are recognized and well-known treatments.

In short:

There is a state of disconnection between the emotional level where a person can have affection for the opposite sex, and the physical level where a person has physical rejection of the opposite sex.

The question that arises is: Is it possible, through the treatment of a professional, to increase the emotional affection side and bring about a ’compromise’ of the physical rejection, and bring about a state of ‘hetero’power is better’ 🙂

Best regards, Sh”t

I think it is definitely possible to create a very deep emotional connection.

The questions that arise are:
A. Is an emotional connection, in which sexuality is not a part, a healthy relationship?
B. How bad is it for a person to suppress their sexual urge completely?
And it seems that these questions are actually discussed in detail.

Best regards, Ask.

On the eve of the fifth fast, the ’ will turn into joy and happiness

If there is the ability to create a deep emotional connection, it turns out that the blockage on the physical plane can be released. This kind of process is undergone by quite a few young religious couples at the beginning of their married life, who need to release the physical reluctance to the opposite sex that was created due to the strictness of absolute distance during the long years of singleness. And this is a familiar and well-known process.

The dissonance that exists in a person between the intellectual-emotional plane and the physical plane, sounds like a problem that can be solved. There is probably some blockage here that led to that internal contradiction, and opening blockages is not one of the absurd things. In such cases, a patient professional who knows how to transmit cautious optimism can bring benefit.

With the blessing of a good ‘overcoming the blockage’, Sh”tz

An example from another direction. A person who is accustomed to satisfying their need for food with ’junk food’ high in sugar, fat, and sodium – will naturally feel dissatisfied with vegetables. Surprisingly, there is a situation where when you reach the ’medical middle ground’ where ’delicious’food involves an acute health risk – you sometimes discover that even cucumbers have flavor 🙂

This is not repulsion, but lack of attraction. I don’t think there is a way to “unblock” this block as you say, but perhaps to live a life without sexuality.

Good luck with your fast☺️

I used to be attracted only to men, and today, after a treatment process I went through, I am attracted to women. I have been happily married for more than 15 years, and I love and am very attracted to my wife, and it is very good for me.

Some would define the treatment I underwent as conversion therapy, I do not define it that way.

I have other friends who went through a similar process, and they also discovered their attraction to women, got married and started families.

My friends and I are very happy that in those days this coercive law did not exist, which could have prevented us from receiving the help we so needed.

Together with them, we established a website that tells our stories, and those of thousands of other people around the world, who, despite being attracted to the same sex, managed to change. As well as scientific studies on the subject.

The website is called “Choose Yourself – Changing Identity and Sexual Attraction Through Free Choice”, you are welcome to visit:
https://letmechoose.org/

The pinnacle of evil social predation calls itself “Let me choose”. As if someone chooses conversion voluntarily (why?) and not as a result of total social pressure. Orwell is turning in his grave.

On the 28th of Adar, 2017

In my responses (to column 225 on conversion therapies and the problems of the discourse on them) on the effectiveness of the treatment and the experience of Dr. David Rudy, I referred to the words of Dr. David Rudy, the late, and Dr. Zvi Mozem, who clarify the possibilities of professional dealing with the tendencies of the latter. I will study their words.

With best regards, Sh.

It is worth noting that Dr. Rudy was a secular psychologist, one of the fathers of liberal permissiveness. He had no moral problem with homosexual tendencies, yet he found it appropriate to allow those with the tendency to also develop the ability to have heterosexual relationships in order to enable them to have stable sexual relationships that are not accompanied by constant abandonment anxiety.

Uri, very interesting. Definitely a voice that is missing from the conversation.

Thank you very much Rabbi Michael.
The commenter and Yeshi presents what social predation and social pressure are, when he states that no one chose the path I chose voluntarily.
I certainly chose my path voluntarily, and I am very happy with my choice.
To state that I chose “not voluntarily”, as opposed to a person who chose to come out “of his own free will” and without any bias or social pressure, is a very problematic argument.

What's the connection? When there is crazy social pressure that makes it difficult for people to be gay, then their choice to respond to such pressure is no better than 'consent' under a relationship of dominance and is extremely questionable.
It is clear that in a reformed world (which will come sooner or later) where there is no pressure on people, then no one will object to conversion therapy and everyone will do what they want. The opposition is to a society that pushes people to undergo such treatments, when it is very likely that a significant portion do not go because they really want to (I have not heard of a hetero who undergoes conversion therapy to become gay. Why) but so that the social shoe does not press on their foot to the point of necrosis. The institutionalization and ratification of this option is the way to whitewash such a social crime as if 'it's not that bad, they can always convert'.
If I see a society where all options are on the table and where H&Ms voluntarily choose to undergo conversion therapy (in a not entirely negligible amount) then I will change my mind. In the meantime, in a successful case, conversion therapy is implemented in a society where there is incitement (no less!) against H&Ms. And things are simple.

On the 28th of Adar, 2018

To Uri and Yeshi, Greetings,

If the person with the Hessianic tendency believes in the Torah, then his problem is not “social pressure” but the internal contradiction between his tendency and his faith. As a believer, he will strive to adapt his lifestyle to the demands of his faith, and this faith will also give him the ability to cope successfully.

No professional treatment can replace a person’s desire to make a significant change in his lifestyle. Professional treatment can only give him the tools to recognize the conscious and unconscious reasons that lead to his condition. Understanding allows a person to develop tools and ways of coping that will help him fulfill his desire to shape his personality according to his faith, and free him from the internal contradiction in which he finds himself.

A ban on professionals helping and providing coping tools – will push the person facing treatment from non-professionals, treatments that may actually lead to despair and suicide and not be helpful. With all the understanding of the situation of someone who is desperate and gives in to their tendency – it is not permissible for professionals to help someone who does want to and believes in their ability to improve.

Best regards, Sh”C.

Yeshiai, I suggest you browse our website a bit and discover how untrue your words are.
You can watch a lecture by Prof. Avshalom Elitzur, who talks about secular people who grow up in a liberal society, even those who have “come out of the closet,” but who are still interested in changing their attraction, because of the difficulties and suffering involved, regardless of social pressure.
You can also read about Dr. Adir Adler’s research on secular men who chose to marry and start a family with women. And you can find many testimonies of people who sought treatment out of their own free will and without pressure or coercion.

Today, social pressure is the opposite, in both secular and religious society there is a trend toward “if you are attracted to men, you need to come out of the closet,” without allowing a choice, and without presenting the price involved in coming out of the closet.
To choose a homosexual life, for the most part, is to choose a life that is full of pain and loneliness, without the ability to start a family or find a monogamous relationship. This is why many people want to change their homosexual attraction. This is also why a heterosexual would not want to change their attraction, because they do not feel that it causes them suffering.

The very scary phrase “conversion therapy” expresses social pressure, social marginalization and delegitimization.
And legislation that prevents adults from receiving the treatment they want is already coercion and trampling on individual rights.
Even if you think that people seek such treatment out of social pressure, this is still no reason to outlaw it, there are many more dangerous things than talking to a psychologist, which are permitted under the law.