Reincarnation vs. Conscious Punishment

The Gemara says in Tractate Sanhedrin 64:2, regarding the verse: “For he despised the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, he cut off the soul, that is a sin in it.” (Numbers 15)
“A cut off is cut off, a cut off in this world is cut off in the world to come,” says Rabbi Akiva, “and has it not already been said, ‘And it was cut off, and there are three worlds,’ but ‘And it was cut off in this world, a cut off in the world to come,’ says the Torah, like the language of human beings.”
That is, despite their disagreement about the next world, both agree that the sinful soul is cut off from this world.
However, according to the Torah of Reincarnation, the soul is not cut off from this world, but returns again and again.

And the Ramban, in his commentary on Leviticus 18:29, elaborates on the matter of recognition and says:
And in explaining the matter, because the one who eats milk or blood and is righteous and has most of his merits, but his lust prevailed over him and he fell into that transgression, his days will be cut off and he will die in youth before he reaches the days of old age, which are sixty years, and his soul is not in recognition, but he will have a share in the world of souls as befits his good deeds because he was righteous, and he will have another share in the next world, which is the world after the resurrection. And in this, that man said and was cut off:
And as for that grave sin, his sins will be greater than his merits, the punishment of recognition that for the grave transgression comes to the sinful soul after it separates from the body and is cut off from eternal life The souls, ….

Those whose sins exceed their merits, including the sins of the criminals of the nations of the world in their bodies, and Rav Papa said, in transgression, that is, in shame from fornication, descend into Gehenna and are condemned for twelve months. After twelve months, their bodies are consumed and their souls are burned and their spirits scatter under the feet of the righteous, etc.:
[Furthermore]

That is, according to the above, whatever the precise nature of the punishment of repentance, it is certain that the Torah does not intend, according to the opinion of the great sages of Israel, for the soul to return to this world for the purpose of its correction, as is the belief in reincarnation.

It is absolutely not necessary. It can be cut off from the present phase and returned in a new incarnation.

And what would you say about the opinion of the Ramban?
That after the souls of the wicked are burned, they are resurrected and reincarnated?

The words of R’ Akiva, R’ Yishmael, and the Ramban are clear
To be cut off from this world is not to return to it in reincarnation again and again and again

As I explained, I disagree. Even the Ramban only speaks of very specific types of keret, and even there it must be rejected. In short, even if you find some sage whose words do not agree with the Gilgalim, then what? It is forbidden to divide him?

The situation is the opposite,
Those who support the belief in reincarnation are actually the minority
If you review the opinions of the sages of Israel from the sages in the Talmud to the Rishonim, and even after them like the Rabbi Hirsch, etc., the great sages of Israel on whose shoulders the Jewish ark of books stands, you will find that the vast majority of them either ignored the belief in reincarnation like the sages in the Talmud or the Maimonides, even though they certainly recognized it (the Pharaohs already held the belief in reincarnation) or came out against this belief in strong words.

Like Rabbi Hirsch in Beliefs and Opinions – “I have found people who are called Jews, who say in the Shenatan, and call it the Ataka (reincarnation of souls), and their concern is that the spirit of Reuben will return to Shimon, and then to Levi, and then to Judah, and there are many of them who say, sometimes the spirit of man will be in an animal, and the spirit of an animal in a man, and many other things of this madness and confusion”

How is it that in the Talmud and Midrash, which deal a lot with faith, and reward and punishment, there is not a word about the belief in reincarnation, even though they certainly knew it?
The obvious conclusion is that they did not speak about it not because they did not know it, but because they saw it as a belief in vain. A foreign belief.

Why, for example, did R’ Elisha ben Abuyah cut back on planting when he could easily have excused the spectacle he saw – about that boy who fell to his death – As a soul that came to correct a previous incarnation

Or the death of the ten royal martyrs – does the Talmud not excuse their death in reincarnation?

But Benjamin, the Ramban, is considered to have introduced the idea of reincarnation into Judaism (as he is considered one of the forerunners of the ‘Kabbalists’). So within the framework of his own words, knowledge and reincarnation should probably get along.
Although in his own words it is not really explicit (in Job chapters 23-33 he dismisses the interpretations of all other commentators regarding Elihu's words and promises to interpret something serious, but it is impossible to understand what he wants there due to the many hints and concealments. And in the chapter on the reward he calls Elihu's answer the “secret of conception”). But that is how ‘Kabbalist’ To interpret his words there as dealing with reincarnation (I don't know why, but the truth is that it can be included there in verses like ‘All these will work twice three times with a man, to restore his soul from corruption to the light in the light of life’), although it is not clear what the great and mysterious secret is here.
In any case, for any question about the teachings of Kabbalah from ancient sources that did not mention it, the answer is ready that everything was a hidden trust, a trust covered and wrapped in the words of a legend, and there were also parts that were revealed only with the revelation of the Zohar and that Elijah taught the Ari (and the Hasidim say that Achaia the Shilonite, who preceded Elijah the Prophet, taught the Baal Shem), etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

The belief in reincarnation existed in some Second Temple sects. It is not foreign to Judaism or an invention of the Kabbalists.

I don't understand why one should take certain legends and ignore others when legends, according to most opinions, cannot be understood literally. There is also a very famous legend that Jews are not condemned to hell at all because Abraham takes them out of there by virtue of circumcision. Or the Gemara in the Vows that says that there is no hell, but that in the future, God will bring forth fire from His sheath, the righteous will be healed in it, and the wicked will be condemned in it. According to this system, there is no hell at all.
All the systems here contradict each other no less than the Galgul contradicts each other.
I have also heard that the burning is the torment of the sinner, feelings of guilt, and being scattered under the feet of the righteous is a parable of his inferiority compared to them. Just as fire consumes the flesh, so guilt burns the soul.
In addition, most systems of reward and punishment developed during the time of the Rishonim. Most systems do not align with the Gemara, and not just the Galgul.

The theory of reincarnation has brought a lot of income to many people.

“The Last Posk”
I noticed that you are responding here, Rabbi.
Your responses do not add interest to the discussion, and they are not serious.

I think you should respect everyone present (and yourself) and stop responding,
unless you have something useful to say to the discussion.

Good evening,
Despite all the claims and opinions raised here, in my opinion the sages in the Mishnah and Talmud did not hold to the belief in reincarnation and saw it as a foreign belief, and many of those who came after them, the Geonim and the Rishonim and onwards, understood this very well, which gave them the seal to oppose it in explicit words and not just be satisfied with ignoring it.

In contrast, a great principle of faith for them was the resurrection of the dead,
and these two beliefs seem to be incompatible, and even push each other aside.

Aa will also add the Gemara in Bava that suggests that the one who comes to a man's wife dies by strangulation and has a share in the next world, as opposed to the one who whitens his friend's face in public. After all, whitening his friend's face in public is not a prohibition against cutting off a person's wife.
Which greatly weakens Binyamin's argument. Likewise, if he has a share in the next world despite the prohibition against him, then one must believe that he must have a correction, and then reincarnation is not so far-fetched.

But one must qualify this. First of all, there may be another correction above without his return to the world. And it is possible that what was said there was an educational message so that they would not whiten their face in public and therefore flouted the severity of the prohibition. But again, why does an adulterer have a share in the next world? It is difficult to see this as an educational message.

It is possible that all the torments of hell are an educational message so that they will not disregard the commandments, and indeed many times it is said that "he has no share in the next world," or that he is condemned to hell or to such and such punishments, and even that he is liable to death, these are relatively mild rabbinical prohibitions. In my opinion, nothing can be deduced from the words of the Haggadah about the factual reality. If I am not mistaken, the rabbi also commented on this once.

Benjamin, the belief in reincarnation has a truly obscure origin. But as I said before, it existed among some Jewish factions of the Second Temple period. Why didn't the Gemara mention it? Perhaps because certain sects like the Gnostics believed in it and did not want to give them legitimacy.
According to quite a few scholars, there are many Talmudic legends that were intended to fight the species. One of the characters that is almost never mentioned in the Gemara is that of Enoch. Enoch was one of the great righteous men of the Second Temple period, but certain sects like the early Christians used him to validate their belief.

A second reason may be because a person will say that he will reincarnate anyway and fix everything, so why should he be righteous or avoid sinning. Chazal undoubtedly knew the belief in reincarnation. If it didn't work out, they would condemn it and attack it, not just elegantly ignore it.

It is possible that there is no reincarnation at all and that it is a superstition that entered Judaism.
But in any case, as I mentioned before, other methods of the Rishonim regarding the world to come do not fit with the Pesht HaGamarah. Rambam's method of acquiring wisdom and uniting the intellect with the active intellect is also not exactly Talmudic or Biblical and is clearly of foreign origin.
I do not see reincarnation as an exception among the various beliefs. There are many contradictions even among the legends of the Chazal.

In any case, the question is whether this is a true belief or nonsense. If it is true, then it does not matter what the Chazal thought, and if it is a nonsense belief, then even if the Chazal were to accept it explicitly, it would be rejected.

On the factual level, according to the population culture, it is difficult to believe that reincarnation is possible, since the population has grown very much. Even at an exponential rate. But if it is possible to reincarnate in animals, living beings and even plants and inanimate objects, it changes everything. But I find it hard to believe that such a high number were absolute evil people who reincarnate inanimate objects and animals.

Belief in reincarnation is a heresy in the Torah of Moses.
The question about the punishment of severance is ridiculous. And stems from a petty view and lack of understanding of the Torah.