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Scientific consensus regarding Corona

שו”תCategory: generalScientific consensus regarding Corona
asked 4 years ago

Hello Rabbi.

How can we determine what the consensus is today? It is currently very common to mock and snub any scientist who thinks differently. Dr. Price was acquitted of a defamation lawsuit against 4 members of the National Health Service, after she called them “corona deniers.” The judge wrote that she acted in accordance with her duty to protect the public. I even saw you call Yoram Les a “corona denier.” Recently, the National Health Service tried to run an advertising campaign on buses in the Dan company (“About corona vaccines for children – only parents decide”), and even this poor campaign, after much pressure, the Dan company will not publish it (https://twitter.com/Nadav_Eyal/status/1462529593114566659).

2 questions:

1. If we decided that we need to belittle and silence anyone who could harm the success of dealing with the coronavirus, how can we know that the scientific consensus is indeed what we think it is? Is it possible that it is completely different, but we managed to silence the scientists who think differently, for fear that they will be offended? When Georg Cantor proposed a mathematical idea that was illegitimate in the eyes of his peers, it probably occurred to him in his right mind. Is it possible that the majority opposes what is considered consensus, and is silent?

2. If, God forbid, the truth is that the harms of the coronavirus vaccines outweigh their benefits, and they should be taken off the shelf, as is occasionally done with vaccines, can we be sure in the situation that has arisen that brave scientists will arise and write studies that will clarify the matter? And if such studies are written, will they be received and heard appropriately in the atmosphere that has been created?

Thank you and hopefully the discussion won’t deteriorate too quickly.


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0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 4 years ago
1. Anyone who mocks and slanders should be questioned. I support the freedom to express any opinion and to take seriously any reasoned opinion. Unreasoned or absurd opinions, even if they are from scientists, can be ridiculed, but not silenced. And the voter will choose. Clearly, there is freedom to publish any advertisement as long as the information is exposed to the public. Admittedly, the situation here is not simple because publishing false information is problematic, and I am not sure that it is right to allow this. The question is who will determine that any information is false. I don’t know. Yoram Les has been babbling since the beginning of the coronavirus, and every time he deceives himself anew (with simple facts. He’s probably really lying, or he didn’t check). You can look for clips of Lior Schlein making fun of him. He earned this attitude with his own hands. 2. I hope so.

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Copenhagen Interpretation replied 4 years ago

It's easiest to take incompetent straw men to defend the position and thus ridicule.

I would like to see one day someone from the ”new science” or from the intellectuals of the nuisance of ignorance who would agree to a debate against Prof. Eyal Shahar, Prof. Kimron or Dr. Rafael Zioni.

Brainwashing 101

אלכס replied 4 years ago

1. As far as I remember, the rabbi dismissed with a wave of the hand and contempt the opinion of those who disagree with the position of the medical establishment, happy to see that the position currently is “Respect every reasoned position”

And if Lior Schlein, who makes a living as a clown, ridiculed Professor Les – What will the mosses on the wall say….

2. It is hard to believe that it will happen – There is a long-standing and powerful dictatorship that firmly silences those who do not align with the medical establishment and the pharmaceutical companies

And on this occasion I highly recommend reading the excellent book “Turtles All the Way Down” which deals very thoroughly with the safety of vaccines (written even before the Corona)

מיכי Staff replied 4 years ago

1. I did not dismiss those who disagree with the medical establishment. At most, I dismissed their stupid claims. But I certainly have general confidence in science and its way of conducting itself. Even if there are mistakes in the short term, they are corrected in the long term, and that works better, Chairman, than any other way I know, certainly the conspiracy methods that are usually really stupid. Anyway, if I made you happy – and that was my reward.
2. To ridicule the idiot and liar Les, you don't even have to make a living as a clown. He does the work himself.

אלכס replied 4 years ago

Thanks for the quick response and the joy?

You wrote – “I have general trust in science and its conduct”

In the book I recommended, he calls this innocent belief the “Myth of Pure Science”

Let's focus on Corona – Do you really think that the scientists and doctors involved in developing Corona vaccines are working with dedication and complete cleanliness of hands solely for the sake of heaven and their goal is one – to bring relief to humanity in danger?

Isn't there a situation where financial considerations are interspersed here and there? After all, the vaccine is produced by a business company that aims to make a profit, and marketed by a medical establishment that has been doing so for decades and whose clear interest is that there will be no doubt about the product

And if the answer to my question about the purity of the intentions of Pfizer and Big Pharma representatives is positive – Why is it that when they come to a side that opposes the medical establishment, their myth disappears in a cloud of smoke and they become delusional by default, and their opinions are stupid??
I have not found anywhere that you address the reasoned opinions of the media experts on Corona, for example

Perhaps the massive media and institutional backing (even Lior Schlein says so…) somewhat dulls judgment and critical thinking?

מיכי Staff replied 4 years ago

Alex, I understand that you have full faith in the myth of the pure book. So what if he writes?
I argue that you are generalizing the entire world of science under one heading. Since it is decentralized and has various factors, I do not accept your conspiratorial thesis. Pfizer certainly has an economic interest, but there are regulatory bodies whose job it is to make sure that this does not harm the quality of the treatment/product, and there are many independent laboratories and academics who test them. There are always opposing voices, and this is part of scientific pluralism, and yet the scientific world as a whole works very well. The best there is. Certainly more than a few esoteric voices who criticize it. This does not mean that they are never right, but they are usually wrong.
I did not write anywhere that all opponents of vaccines are delusional. I said that there are a very large number of delusional people among them (the vast majority, in my opinion). I do not dismiss an argument just because it is against the scientific position, but I certainly treat it with great skepticism. I will only dismiss it when I think it is illogical. Many arguments I have seen from opponents of vaccines are illogical, and even just stubborn and fact-denying. That does not mean that they are all like that, and each argument should be heard and examined on its own merits.
In any case, it is clear to me that vaccines are beneficial and that opposition to them is stupid. The arguments I have seen there are illogical and make a big deal out of a mouse. There are always risks of one kind or another. Pointing out them means nothing.
It seems to me that if there is anyone here whose criticality is obscured by public discourse and made one-sided and biased, it is not me. But as I said, maybe I am biased in that too.

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