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Eastern European Jews

שו”תEastern European Jews
asked 4 years ago

Peace to the rabbi.
As is well known, Jews in Eastern Europe were considered inferior to the educated Jews of Germany. My argument is that this is an undeniable fact and that Eastern European Jews have inferior intellectual abilities today and will continue to do so in the future.
My question is:
Is this racism? A factual error? Or stating a fact that you believe is correct? Stating a fact that was correct in the past but can be changed.

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0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 4 years ago

Your opinion is, first of all, nonsense and nonsense, of course.
But that’s what can be said about it. It’s a mistake of fact, not racism. It’s possible that this mistake stems from racism. And certainly even if it were true, it could be changed.

מיכי Staff replied 4 years ago

By the way, are you from Eastern Europe? Or maybe from Germany?

עמנואל replied 4 years ago

I am from Eastern Europe and I don't care (really) that you think and argue like that (maybe you are right?). Look at what a liberal I am. It is important for me to progress and develop within myself and my position in the hierarchy is not important to me. And that is how it should be for everyone. Then the objective discussion about the true hierarchy will come (when it has significance for some subject (and it probably does))

By the way, in the Torah field you are completely wrong. There is no comparison between the German sages (there were hardly any) and the Eastern European sages. Both in the Talmudic field and in the field of Jewish thought and Kabbalah. German Jews were mostly really empty scholars. There is a joke about Rabbi Hirsch who said that he studies Tehillim and recites Gemara in contrast to a Talmid Tocham from Eastern Europe who recites Tehillim and studies Gemara

In the 25th of Shvat P’2

After our rabbis taught us the essential difference between the inferior Jews of Eastern Europe and the Jews of Germany who are married, I asked myself: (a) What is the ruling on the areas of the book such as Poznań, Danzig, and Silesia, and what is the ruling on Prague, Nikolsburg, and the rest of their cities and their descendants? Should they be considered East or West? (b) And where does the “border line” pass, is it on the Elbe River or on the Oder-Neisse line? (c) And what is the ruling on “having one foot in the East and one foot in the West”? (d) And what is the ruling on one who was born in the East and moved to the West, and vice versa? Is the place of origin the cause or the place of residence?

Our rabbis will teach us all this, and may God bless you!

With regards, Azriel Tzemach Halevi Kalisher, from Mizrahi Shemesh to Bevo

נועם replied 4 years ago

Hello Rabbi Michi.
Of course I don't think so. It was a sarcastic question after a post written by His Honor.
You claim that what I wrote, even if I'm right in my words {Eastern Europeans are inferior}, is that these are things that can be changed. That is, Eastern Europeans can change.
In your post, you write and here is the quote:

“Moreover, I don't know where the knights of the war on racism derive the confidence that any such characteristic can really be changed. This is a factual assumption, and as such it also requires substantiation. The assertion that any claim about the essentiality of a characteristic is racism is a groundless claim on its face, and certainly not based”

I made a claim about an essential characteristic about Eastern European Jews and here you came out against it in a rage. You contradict yourself.
It's easy for you to make such claims about others. Black women, Mizrahi, Haredi.
When you talk about Eastern Europe, {probably because you're from there} you change your mind. I'd love a substantive response. I'm from Eastern Europe, and it's not a quick absorption.

מיכי replied 4 years ago

Noam, you have the right to waste your time, but not mine. So I'll stop here, and I'm sure that even though you're from Eastern Europe, you'll be able to answer the enormous questions you raised in your last message on your own. They're certainly no less powerful than the first.

נועם replied 4 years ago

I would be happy if someone could answer in Rabbi Michi's place. Where am I wrong? Did I not understand his response? Did I not understand what he wrote in the post?

ורוצון replied 4 years ago

Noam's question: The column criticizes the anti-racists who assume that race has no intrinsic personality trait, and therefore, on a racial level, everything can be changed. On the other hand, the respondent here confidently holds to the assumption that the Eastern European race does not have an intrinsic personality trait of intellectual inferiority, and therefore, even if they are actually inferior, this can be changed. And the problem is that the respondent assumes that the anti-racists assume that this can be changed.
Excuse: The column criticizes the blanket assumption that race has no intrinsic personality trait. Because there may be an intrinsic trait for race somewhere. In the answer, the respondent claimed that a certain trait, which is intellectual inferiority, is not intrinsic to race. How, according to the respondent, do you think it is not intrinsic, because many Eastern Europeans have done it and succeeded?
To Noam: Does the excuse satisfy you?

עמנואל replied 4 years ago

Noam

Rabbi Michi did not contradict himself. He did not come out against you with any foam that floated. It is all in your imagination. .He said that factually at least in relation to the essence you are wrong and that is it. That the Jews of Eastern Europe are not inferior in essence and that is it. He said “nonsense” because he also thinks that factually this was not true today and in the past. It is true that the Jews of Eastern Europe in general were culturally less developed than the Jews of Germany as a simple result of the fact that the peoples of Eastern Europe are culturally less developed than the German people. But in relation to the elite this was not true (even at the level of scientists and intellectuals). And he did not accuse you of racism because there is nothing to accuse you of in this. There is no guilt in this at all. Perhaps he could have accused you of arrogance, but this is a sin between a person and a place and not between a person and his fellow man, and therefore there is not even a moral flaw in it (in the narrow sense of morality).

המוצא הכוזרי replied 4 years ago

It seems that the genetic differences between Eastern and Western European Jews stem from the high proportion of Khazars among Eastern European Jews, while among German Jews there are many who came from Spain who are original Jews. It is true that the Levites in Eastern Europe are descended from the descendants of Rabbi Yehuda Halevi who went to convert the Khazars.

Therefore, there is also a difference in the love with which He loves the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim. The Sephardim, who are the children of God from time immemorial, are loved by God with an eternal love, while the Ashkenazim, who are the children of the Gentiles, are loved by God with a great love, as He commanded in His Torah many times:

With greetings, Levi & Ger, Sephardi from Carpathia

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