Question about studies
peace,
Let’s take 2 scenarios of 23-year-old Reuven, who is a smart and talented person.
In the first scenario, Reuven studied normally in school, middle school, and high school, and took 5 units in math, biology, chemistry, and physics with an average of 90.
In the second scenario, Reuven, for various reasons, did not invest in high school and did not really study and took 3 units of math and a theater major. But at the age of 20, for various reasons, he completed his 5 units of math, biology, chemistry, and physics in one year or a little more, and now 3 years have passed and he is 23 years old.
So in summary, the difference is that in the first version, Reuven learned “slowly” and over the course of years, and in the second version, he learned everything within a year.
Now, a few years later, at the age of 23 (or immediately after completing intensive studies), is there a difference between them in any way (depth, knowledge, breadth, insights, or anything else) or are they more or less exactly the same?
Thank you (and I hope the question is understandable).
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Indeed. Therefore, it is better to switch to a small yeshiva format.
I used to think so too, but now I'm undecided about it. Of course, for some students it's good (those who study seriously and won't be harmed by this focus). But it's not for everyone.
Teachers who come from the field (and are not slaves of the Teachers' Union) think differently:
https://morelomechanech.wordpress.com/2020/11/18/%d7%94%d7%98%d7%a8%d7%92%d7%93%d7%99%d7%94-%d7%94%d7%92%d7%93%d7%95%d7%9c%d7%94-%d7%a9%d7%9c-%d7%94%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%90%d 7%aa-%d7%94%d7%9e%d7%aa%d7%9e%d7%98%d7%99%d7%a7%d7%94/
https://morelomechanech.wordpress.com/2021/09/01/%d7%90%d7%a4%d7%a9%d7%a8-%d7%90%d7%91%d7%9c-%d7%a7%d7%a9%d7%94/
In fact, from what I see of my children, school is definitely not just a babysitter (it is also a babysitter). In English, math, Hebrew, and also Torah, Mishnah and Halacha, I see a graph of progress over the years. There is an expectation that they will excel, but they will excel in what they need to excel in now. Didactics is important (a topic he talks about a lot). Also building the subjects layer upon layer. I, who missed the crucial years of learning English grammar, still carry lame English.
The romance of Torah alone is endearing, but those who believe, like me, that it is the father's duty to teach his son a trade - and a trade these days is English, Hebrew, and math - cannot underestimate the hard work of schools, educators, and professional teachers.
In practice, the Haredim are unable to make up for the gaps in English and drop out of serious academic subjects in high percentages.
Y.D.
How old are your children? Did you send them to a regular high school yeshiva?
By the way, when I said small yeshiva, I meant a place like Gamzo (the small yeshiva in Shaalavim) where anyone who wants to can take the matriculation exams, but there are no unnecessary hours in the system that just waste time (from what I understand about the place). Ask any seminarian about wasting time in a high school yeshiva. Wasting time is something I think is present in most high school yeshiva (and actually in every high school). In addition, there is the issue of studying kosher at a lower level in a high school yeshiva. In other words, you both waste time in secular studies and you also don't study kosher at a high level.
It's a long and complicated story, and now they're adults. One of them studied at Gamzo.
I don't have sons of high school yeshiva age yet. We'll think about it when the time comes. On the other hand, that doesn't mean we have to settle for what the system offers. I know a very smart Jew whose high school sons are engaged in programming on the one hand and studying Daf Yomi on the other. In the eyes of Haredi and Haredi Jews, this may not be considered much. In my opinion, it's quite a bit. It gives them a breadth of Gemara that, when they reach a higher yeshiva, will allow them to devote themselves to studying at ease and from a place of familiarity with the Gemara. There is power in the breadth of the Gemara.
Ultimately, it depends on you. On your investment in them, as well as on their own enjoyment of learning. I've met guys who I felt sorry for when they got stuck in a small yeshiva, and I've met guys who, even in a small yeshiva, impressed me as serious scholars. From my experience, this is inversely correlated to how much the parent is a sacred vessel in themselves. It is precisely the children of parents who are holy vessels (high-ranking, educators) who are very poor in small yeshivots and it is precisely them who are stuck in Torah Talmuds and small yeshivots without secular studies. Their escape route is in the army, but they arrive in the army with low Kabbalah without a matriculation certificate. It is a shame. In contrast, the sons of serious programmers and engineers flourish in the world of Torah. They have financial backing and the seriousness of their parents gives them a standard of quality to which they must reach in the world of Torah.
What I wrote about the need for organized construction is also true for high school yeshivahs. A small yeshiva like Gamzo does not give a serious enough matriculation certificate to someone who dreams of becoming a doctor or studying engineering at the Technion. Organized education is important in order to achieve achievements. In the Torah matter, it hurts, but it is a more widespread problem in the religious public, which sometimes, in the name of the "us versus them" agenda, prefers to take national religious high school students who have not studied enough Torah instead of going for ultra-Orthodox high school students who come with a serious academic background.
Following the request of the Chief Justice, I am transferring the response here:
I wanted to ask you an important question, because there are very good arguments for the Haredi approach in terms of wasting time and the possibility of completing the subjects later on, as you mentioned in the response. And as I see with my own eyes from people around me. And that is also what you have done in practice.
On the other hand, you wrote that you are content with that today.
I would love to hear what you think today? And why!
P.S.
Obviously, I am not talking about cases for people who are suited to one type of framework and the other framework will not suit them. And in essence, a person does not learn except from a place where his heart desires.
Y.D.
What is the optimal adult for you? Let's assume by default that this is the person who has the most options. And is in the highest religious degree.
I personally think that nowadays we need to move the definition of his age from 18 to 25. (Which is the age at which an average secular person is fit to work at full capacity in the Sages' 18).
Therefore, I think that it is possible to devote the first years to sacred subjects. Except for English and computers. These are things that some people find difficult to learn on their own. (Although the amount of hours that need to be invested in computers for 5 or 10 units is zero compared to the need in a school as we know it). And at a young age it is easy to invest in English. If there is a class in which only English is spoken.
And at the age of 17 (class A) it is possible to move to an alternative study framework of half (scientific) half (holiday).
Exactly the opposite of the average religious. It will take about two to three years to complete preparatory school for the basic subjects in a way that is not rushed or in great haste.
K
A person who studies Torah out of desire and not out of necessity.
For a daily newspaper, this is not enough.
You can also get a good matriculation certificate in Gamzo if someone is interested in it. In a course at the university, I studied all the matriculation material in physics and at a slightly higher level. In other words, in one semester you can finish the matriculation material in physics, those who want a matriculation in physics can study during breaks and manage to finish. You really don't need so many unnecessary classes for that (in the end, you just watch videos on YouTube anyway).
Regarding the fact that they take national religious scoundrels, I don't agree with you. Sometimes they look for a character who is more educational than scholarly, and of course there are also national religious scholars.
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