The tragedy of Yavne and the secular system
Akiva Novik:
The Yavne tragedy is a big point in favor of the religious system. There are things that are better done in isolation, without sexual tension, and a personal training situation is definitely one of them.
Uriah Shilat:
Akiva is not saying here that religious people don’t cheat, that they are more moral or more restrained people by nature, he is simply saying that maintaining the boundaries of halakhah (as long as it is between men and women who are attracted to each other) helps prevent such cases from occurring, because a married or single woman who follows halakhah will not practice alone with a man, will not touch him, and will not be alone with him. I didn’t understand what everyone was jumping on. Yes, there are religious people who cheat, what’s the connection?
Haim Levinson:
What nonsense. As if fitness training is the issue. So whoever is looking should go with the locality secretary. Why is that anyone’s business?
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Also the situation where you go to the secretariat to inquire about kindergarten registration [my addition: is prone to disaster].
Dov Morel:
I’m pretty sure most trainers don’t do it in a secluded room, and if someone chose to train with a trainer in a secluded room, maybe it didn’t really bother her and she actually wanted it. You [Uria Shilat] and Akiva are assuming that they were dragged into it without having any information to support this assumption. Especially when it comes to dozens, it sounds so far-fetched that women heard from other women about how amazing it is to have sex with him and went there precisely because of that? The fact that it comes to dozens pretty much reinforces the opposite assumption and therefore undermines your argument.
Do you think Dov Morel is right? In this respect, is the secular system not inferior to the religious system? And the total sum of the advantages and disadvantages (for example, the list of prices that Tzippy Lavi listed here https://x.com/tzippylavi/status/1884585162844840122)?
This question will be deleted unless you formulate a specific argument and a concrete question here.
Is the pursuit of separation (the “religious system”) a positive social value (that should be adopted even in a secular society)?
Is it correct to say that separation reduces socially indecent acts, even though there is apparently no evidence for this?
For now, it appears that we are not talking about dozens (but single women) and not married women (but single and divorced women).
You assume that the purpose of separation is to prevent forbidden acts. But in Halacha, its purpose is also to prevent forbidden reflections, and perhaps it also has its own value. This is a question of norms and it varies from society to society, so I don't have a general answer to the matter. In my opinion, the Haredi separation is hysterical and unhealthy. But it is clear that in their norms, a little mixing can provoke more reflections than in a mixed society.
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