The Casuistic Structure of the Talmud (Column 482)
With God’s help
Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.
In the previous column I discussed the role of nafka minot (practical differences) in Talmudic thinking. The starting point for that discussion was the relationship between study and its practical ramifications (addressed in column 479). In this column I wish to touch on a related point: why the Talmud prefers to present its discussions and principles through concrete cases rather than through general theoretical principles. In legal terminology, this is the question of the Talmud’s casuistry.
The question
In my essay on ukimtot I wrote the following about the character of the Talmud:
Science formulates its general laws explicitly, e.g., “Every … is …”. By contrast, the Sages—both in the Mishnah and in the Gemara—almost never use theoretical formulations; that is, they rarely lay down abstract, general principles. The Sages prefer to express themselves through specific cases that embody the general laws (in legal terms: a casuistic method, as in British law).
Nevertheless, as we shall see below, it is clear to the Gemara that the Mishnah intends to teach a general law and not only a specific ruling. The case cited in the Mishnah is taken as a casuistic expression of a general law. This is why the Gemara abstracts the case in the Mishnah and turns it into a “laboratory case,” thereby distilling the general law out of the Mishnah’s casuistic formulation.
I must add that even the Gemara, when extracting the general law from the Mishnah, does not formulate its conclusion as a general law. The ukimta is the formulation the Gemara uses to describe the general law. Thus the Gemara continues the casuistic manner of formulation used by the Tannaim in the Mishnah: the general law is presented in the Gemara through test cases (laboratory situations) that allow us to see which general law the Mishnah had in mind.
There are three claims here: 1) The Mishnah and the Talmudic discussion prefer to deal with cases (hence “casuistry”) rather than general principles. 2) Nonetheless, it is clear to all that behind these lie general principles. 3) Even the Gemara, which tries to extract the general principles from the Mishnah’s cases, formulates its conclusions by way of cases (the ukimtot).
This picture naturally raises the question I noted in footnote 14 there without explaining it:
Why indeed do the Sages prefer a casuistic formulation and refrain from using the language of theoretical laws (as in a positivist system)? I cannot address this important question there, and for my purposes here it suffices to establish the fact that this indeed is the Sages’ method.
At first glance this appears to be intellectual primitiveness. But I wish to argue that it is not so—that the Sages have very good reasons to prefer discussion in this form. About four years ago I was asked by Avraham (and more recently by EA) about this claim. They asked me for a further explanation, and that is what I shall offer in this column.
Casuistry
The term “casuistry” comes from the Latin casus (case). In the legal world a casuistic law is defined as a law framed conditionally: if someone commits murder, his punishment is such and such; as opposed to a formulation as a rule or theoretical principle: it is forbidden to murder. But this is a technical distinction and, in my view, not terribly interesting. What is more relevant for us is the casuistic approach (not just the wording), which advocates running the legal system through precedents and analogies to them, rather than through rules and deductive derivation from them.
Ask a person how a legal system works and he will likely answer that the legislature sets the rules (the laws), and the citizen or the judge applies them to specific cases. They deduce the legal instruction for the case before them by logical deduction. The law says it is forbidden to murder; now a person is driving recklessly toward a crosswalk where someone is crossing—he understands that this would be an act of murder forbidden by law and concludes that the act is prohibited (and, I hope, refrains from doing it). But this picture is somewhat naïve and by no means universally accepted.
The approach that views law as a collection of general principles and believes in the picture I just described is usually associated with legal positivism.[1] For the positivist, law is a system of rules and the judge’s role is passive. Admittedly, this is a simplistic and extreme description, and in practice even those classified as positivists do not truly think and act that way. By contrast, in casuistic systems the judge is meant to compare (or distinguish) the case before him with prior cases—those stated in the law or in precedents—and to decide accordingly. A principled casuistry tends to think there really are no sweeping theoretical rules, and every case should be judged on its own merits. The basic logical move in this approach is not deduction but analogy (and perhaps induction).
For example, the positivist will say there is a general prohibition on lying, and that in every case we merely apply that prohibition. The casuist, by contrast, may hold that there is no general prohibition on lying in every situation, and that each case must be judged on its own. In some cases lying is permitted; in others not. On the face of it this is a rather silly formulation, since clearly there is a general prohibition on lying, except that in certain cases one may deviate from it. In other words, deviating from it requires justification—not the other way around. It is true that the legal instruction varies across cases and is hard to formulate as a sweeping rule; but that does not mean there is no rule. From the perspective of pure casuistry, there is ostensibly no need for legislation and no rules at all; one could run everything by accumulating comparisons to precedents.
These are of course extreme formulations. I know of no positivist who truly believes a general rule applies to every case and that there is no room for common sense and interpretation that would carve out exceptions. I do not think there exists a positivist who sees the judge as a mechanical logic engine deriving outcomes from the statute book. Conversely, there is also no jurist who thinks we have no need for laws and legislation—that judges suffice and legislators are unnecessary. A heap of cases without any general rules is not a legal system one can operate (how are the cases to be evaluated? If there are no rules, what are the guiding lines?). The two pictures I sketched can perhaps serve as theories and/or general approaches to law—setting an overall direction—but in practice one cannot truly run a legal system that way. Pure positivism is too rigid and fossilized; actually running a legal system requires some flexibility and attention to the particulars of each case. Extreme casuistry is likewise impossible as a method for a judge to reach decisions and, indeed, for legal certainty (that citizens or judges can know what is permitted and what is forbidden and what the law says). These are but simple examples of the problems with both approaches.
As noted, at first blush positivism looks like the cleanest, purest approach—the natural picture. The legislator sets rules and the judge applies them. Without this, we fall into the controversial, complex, and irritating maze called “judicial legislation,” that is, situations where a judge’s interpretation of the law effectively becomes a new piece of legislation—seemingly beyond his authority. But on the other hand it is clear there is no way to create a legal system composed solely of general laws and give the judge the role of a passive deductive engine. Such an approach leads to terrible distortions in many cases. Hence, nowadays no one holds either picture in its pristine form.
A milestone in sobering up from legal positivism was the Nuremberg Trials. There something inconceivable happened within accepted legal thought: individuals were prosecuted for obeying the laws of their own country (Nazi Germany, in that case). The Nazis’ defense was that they were following orders or the law, but the claim was not accepted. Complex and more flexible legal constructions were developed that did not view the law and the rules it sets as the last word. One must understand that there are situations (cases) where the law (the rule) does not apply, or at least there is no obligation to obey it. More than that, obedience to the law is not a defense and may lead to conviction. A less extreme continuation of these doctrines is the construction of the “manifestly illegal order,” which likewise instructs a person not to carry out a directive received from a legal authority where it contradicts fundamental principles (even if they are not explicitly written in the statute book and were not enacted; for example, moral principles).
Despite the convergence of the two pictures I described and the retreat of various legal systems from the extremes, in the final analysis there remain two types of legal systems today: those that lean more toward positivism, i.e., legislation by rules (e.g., German Bundes law). These systems view the judge’s role as deciding the case before him by deductive derivation from statutes. And there are legal systems that advocate adjudication primarily through comparisons to precedents (British common law), which see the judge’s role as analyzing similarities and distinctions in the precedents. As stated, neither system truly resides at the extremes I described. Both progress steadily toward a compromising middle. Both have enacted laws that are binding, not just precedents; and both make room for non-deductive analogies and distinctions, and for attention to the special circumstances of different cases.
Halakhic rules and Ptolemaic astronomy
We have seen that adopting a positivist approach to law yields a rigid, fossilized product that cannot truly capture lived reality in all its complexity. The reason is that no law can genuinely cover all cases and their differences.
A good analogy here is Ptolemaic astronomy (of the Greek astronomer Ptolemy), which took the heavenly orbits to be circular. The circle is a perfect, aesthetic, harmonious path, and therefore it seemed clear to them that this is how the world must operate (a kind of aesthetic version of Occam’s razor). Of course this thesis did not stand up to the facts and was contradicted by various observations (our stubborn world refuses to be aesthetic—at least not according to the aesthetics within us). They therefore added epicycles and deferents to reconcile the circular-orbit assumption with reality. Epicycles are smaller circular paths superimposed upon the larger circular orbit, and one can then add further circles and spheres within the previous ones, and so on, to adjust the model and bring it closer to empirical observations. In the end Tycho Brahe and Kepler came along and showed that the orbits are actually elliptical. After taking account of all the epicycles—circle upon circle upon circle—and all sorts of small circles, the whole thing is an attempt to describe an ellipse by means of a big circle with two smaller circles at its ends, and then to fill in the picture with more and more little circles until one arrives at an ellipse.
Ever since, “epicycles and deferents” have served as an analogy or expression for a fossilized outlook that insists on speaking an a priori language to a recalcitrant reality. This forces those who hold such a view to complicate matters endlessly to preserve the language, instead of changing the language and acknowledging that reality owes nothing to our a priori categories. Sometimes an openness to a new language and a willingness to abandon the old reveals that describing reality is much easier than we thought.
Back to the Talmud
Returning to the Talmud and halakhah, the rules there behave quite similarly. I will illustrate with an example. There is a clear Talmudic rule for deciding disputes between Abaye and Rava: the law follows Rava in all disputes except for six cases, remembered by the acronym YaL KaGaM (see Kiddushin 52a and parallels). Seemingly a very clear rule fixed already in the Talmud, uncontroversial. Yet Maimonides rules in several additional places (beyond those six) in accordance with Abaye. For example, regarding “lo titgodedu” (see Yevamot 14a; and Rambam, Laws of Idolatry 12:14) and regarding “i aved lo mehani” (according to some interpretations; see Temurah 4b; and Tzitz Eliezer IV §3, who discusses this at length; and see here). It is no surprise that devotees of rules begin to add epicycles and deferents to the Talmudic rule. Some propose a sub-rule: in disputes where Abaye and Rava argue about the view of other sages (Tannaim or earlier Amoraim), the rule does not apply. Whence this sub-rule? To my mind, only from their fevered imagination. If more exceptions are found (places where Abaye and Rava disagree over others’ views and the law still follows Rava), another epicycle and deferent will be added—for example: if the dispute concerns Tannaim of the third generation and later, then in fact the law follows Rava; or in such a case it necessarily follows Abaye; and so on.
The reason for these convoluted moves is very similar to our astronomical example: the assumption that the rule is rigid and sweeping does not stand up to the facts, and in order to continue holding on to it, small auxiliary assumptions are added. But this assumption is manifestly mistaken. The Talmud, like every legal system, shows remarkable recalcitrance toward the positivism of the “rule-mongers,” though to their credit they do not despair. This is probably also why this literature is entirely neglected—not only by students but even by halakhic authorities and decisors.
My claim is that this is why the Talmud does not believe in rules and focuses on cases. Rules are too rigid; cases always refuse to submit to them. Therefore it sees dealing with cases and analogies as a more effective, efficient tool than formulating rules and deriving deductively from them. No wonder the Talmud rarely formulates sweeping rules and prefers to deal with cases (and sometimes present the rule through them). The belief embedded in this structure is that—like English law—the Talmud does not believe in rules but in examples and more flexible thought. It looks looser and less efficient, but ultimately it yields far more accurate, correct, and less fossilized results. Cases convey the halakhic message better than sweeping rules. Examples will follow.
The hermeneutic rules of “general and particular”
In the second volume of the Talmudic Logic series we dealt with the hermeneutic rules of “general and particular” by which the Torah is expounded. We showed there that even the Torah has no general laws and prefers formulation through examples. For instance, regarding the redemption of ma’aser sheni, the Torah does not tell us the rule—what one may redeem it for and what not. It gives examples (“herd and flock, wine and strong drink”). We are meant to generalize from these examples to understand what is permitted and what is forbidden.
The Gemara sees in the verses describing the redemption of ma’aser sheni a structure of “general, particular, particular.” In the hermeneutic rules there are two further related structures: “particular and general” and “general and particular.” We explained that this is halakhah’s alternative to the positivist structure. The hermeneutic rules instruct us that when the Torah formulates a verse with a general expression followed by some particulars and then again a general expression, it intends us to take the examples and generalize them to various radii determined by the formulation: “general–particular–general” → a medium-radius generalization; “general–particular” → a minimal generalization; “particular–general” → a maximal generalization. And in one place in the entire Talmud we also find a “particular–general–particular” structure—a different medium-radius generalization.
We explained that these structures arise from the very problem that modern legal positivism tries to cope with. We illustrated it through H. L. A. Hart’s (the positivist’s) discussion about bringing vehicles into a children’s playground. A general law banning “vehicles” tells us nothing about what exactly counts as a vehicle: bicycles, a toddler’s ride-on toy, a war-memorial tank, a tractor? Context can help us understand the intent (purposive interpretation: preventing noise or the risk of running children over), and we can also do this through examples: “No vehicles may be brought into the playground, such as a motorcycle, a tractor, or a car, and similar.” Note the “general–particular–general” structure, whose goal is the understanding that, on the one hand, the law is broader than the specific examples, and on the other, the examples are the basis that gives us the direction for generalization. This is a good illustration of the limitations of a rule compared with examples, and of the advantages of combining the two.
Another example: “This one benefits and that one does not lose”
In column 431 I discussed the development of lamdanut (analytical learning) over the generations. I illustrated its sophistication through the sugya of “zeh neheneh ve-zeh lo chaser”—“this one benefits and that one does not lose.” The backdrop was the tension between a positivist formulation of a sweeping analytic rule like “this one benefits and that one does not lose” and a casuistic discussion of a specific case: “One who lives in his fellow’s courtyard without his knowledge—must he pay rent?” The Gemara usually discusses cases, but in that unusual sugya the Gemara itself tries to extract the rule from the case; in most sugyot this is done by the commentators. It is worth seeing that column for the full picture; here I will focus on our point.
In the course of the discussion, Rav Chisda enthusiastically reports to Rami bar Chama about the debate in the study hall regarding “this one benefits and that one does not lose.” Opposite Rav Chisda’s evident enthusiasm, Rami bar Chama dismisses it with indifferent scorn, saying that all their pilpul is pointless because the law is set by an explicit Mishnah. After Rav Chisda insists that he identify the Mishnah, Rami bar Chama’s surprising answer arrives:
“If you derived benefit, you must pay what you benefited.”
The case concerns an animal that ate vegetables in the public domain. Its owner is exempt from paying for the damage because “tooth” damage in the public domain does not incur liability. But the Mishnah adds that if the animal derived benefit (it was sated and he saved the feed he would have had to give it), he must pay for the benefit.
This is a fascinating and very puzzling answer, especially coming after build-ups that lead us to expect something sensational. After all, that case is one of “this one benefits and that one loses,” since the owner of the vegetables has lost his produce. How did Rami bar Chama think to resolve the question of “this one benefits and that one does not lose” from that case? One can hardly avoid the sense that the Gemara deliberately creates an expectation of brilliance so that, when the source is revealed, we think it nonsense (as indeed Rava did) and are disappointed.
The Gemara itself asks:
“But that is a case of ‘this one benefits and that one loses,’ whereas ours is ‘this one benefits and that one does not lose’!”
And it explains:
“Rami bar Chama held that produce placed in the public domain is treated as if ownerless.”
One who places produce in the public domain is deemed to have abandoned it.
This cannot be taken literally. If the owner abandoned it, then indeed there is no loss; but then why should one pay him for the benefit? The produce is not his. It is thus clear that the Gemara means that in such a situation it is as if he abandoned it; i.e., he bears contributory fault for placing it in the public domain, and therefore the payment is for benefit as if there had been no loss.
Rava mocks the proof from the Mishnah and is certain it is foolishness. Why? Because he examines matters in a positivist way (see my columns there regarding the usage of talmid chacham). The sweeping rule is that where there is benefit and there is loss, one must certainly pay, and that differs from a situation of benefit without loss. By that rule it is obvious the Mishnah’s case is “this one benefits and that one loses.” Rava is indeed correct. But Rami bar Chama wishes to teach him—and Rav Chisda—that when one examines the case on its own terms one discovers that the rule misses something here. True, there is loss, but there is also contributory fault; thus de facto it is as if there were no loss.
Now ask: is there a sweeping rule for all “no-loss” situations? According to the Gemara’s phrasing—yes, for it speaks about the collection of cases described by the term “this one benefits and that one does not lose.” But now we can see this is only phrasing. Our case is exceptional and the rule should not be applied to it. There is a very good reason, of course, but from the bare phrasing of the rule we could not have known it. One must use common sense and examine our case—not only derive mechanically and deductively from a sweeping rule.
Another example: liability for damage caused by one’s property
The general rule in tort law is that a person must pay if his property causes damage. The condition for liability is that the damaging object was owned by the defendant. From this rule it follows that if the damaging item was not his property, he is exempt. This raises a question: what if an animal is in my custody but is not mine—am I liable for its damages? It turns out that I am. Thus, for example, a bailee or a thief—although not “owners” in the full legal sense—are liable for damages caused by the animal in their possession. This does not sit well with the rule that liability arises only when the damaging item is owned by the defendant, but common sense dictates that in such cases he should be treated as an “owner” for the purposes of tort liability.
In my Bava Kamma lectures (7–11) I discussed the law of one who places his fellow’s animal in another fellow’s field, comparing it to a thief and to a bailee. In all these cases the defendant does not own the damaging object, yet there is logic to imposing liability and responsibility for the damage; and indeed the Rishonim debate whether this is liability as “a person who damages” (in which case ownership is unnecessary), or a special liability the Torah innovated, or perhaps it can be derived from the rule that “whenever one’s property causes damage one must pay,” even though here it is not one’s own property. At least according to some views in some cases, the debate is precisely over the positivist question. All agree that one who takes his fellow’s animal and places it in someone’s field, and it eats, must pay. But Tosafot and the Rashba there dispute whether this is “a person who damages” (since it cannot be “property that damages,” as the placer is not the owner) or “property that damages” despite the lack of ownership—he is “as if” the owner for this purpose. The same goes for the thief and the bailee. Regarding a bailee whose deposit caused damage, for example, some hold the bailee’s liability derives from the laws of bailees and not from torts, since in torts he cannot be liable because he is not the owner of the damaging animal. According to that approach he is liable to the depositor, and the victim must sue the depositor (practically we may simplify this due to shi’abuda de-Rabi Natan). Others hold the liability comes from torts, despite the lack of ownership—he is treated as an owner for this purpose.
Again we see that a positivist formulation that hangs everything on ownership does not stand up to specific cases. It is too rigid and fossilized to handle reality’s complexity. Yet the Talmud does not forgo the general formulation, and still ties liability to ownership. It relies on our interpreting matters with common sense and applying them according to circumstances, not merely by technical deduction.
Another example: delivery of a bill of divorce
A final example is the delivery of a get. The Talmud’s attempts to define what counts as delivery of a get are extraordinarily extensive. Scores of examples are brought (primarily in tractate Gittin): a get written on something prohibited for benefit; placing the get in her courtyard; giving it into his own courtyard and transferring that to her; a get in her hand with a string in his hand; a get in the hand of her sleeping (and bound) slave; “this is your get but the paper is mine”; and many, many more.
The commentators struggle desperately to extract from this welter of examples a rule that will define “delivery of a get.” Such a rule would be sweeping, so that all the Gemara’s cases would be instances of it (and one could deduce the law deductively in each case). The Ketzot HaChoshen tries to define delivery as either a transfer of ownership or a physical handing over, and rejects both possibilities (prohibitions of benefit undermine transfer of ownership; physical delivery is undermined by transfer via courtyard). The Ketav Sofer devotes four long, very tiring sections to this (§§14–17), offering tortuous formulations that attempt to fit all the examples—and come up empty-handed.
The obvious question is: why didn’t the Gemara itself give us the rule, sparing us the frustration and futile labors? Seemingly, formulating a rule would reduce the chance of error in application to various cases, since we would use deduction from the rule to know the law in each case. In my Bar-Ilan weekly-parashah essay for Ki Teitzei (year 5755), briefly mentioned as well in my essay on Zeno’s arrow, I argued that the reason is that there is no simple way to formulate such a rule. Any formulation would lead to mistakes and misapplications in various cases. Therefore the Gemara preferred to give us a long list of cases, assuming that studying them would clarify the law of delivering a get in the best way. Surprisingly, it is precisely the casuistic presentation that yields the most accurate result and minimizes errors in application. Rules and logical inference are reliable, absolute, and precise—but their very strength is their weakness. Analogy and comparison to cases—tools that are weaker and less precise—produce better outcomes.
Incidentally, in learning systems today it is already known that the best way to teach a system or endow it with some function is not through a general definition of the function so that the system deduces applications, but rather by training through examples and inducing tentative rules that improve as examples multiply. In my view this is precisely what the Gemara did in the sugya of get delivery.
Following a rule
The later Ludwig Wittgenstein, in his Philosophical Investigations, dwells at length on the problematics of learning by rules. His claim is that, in essence, we have no absolute way to follow rules; therefore giving a rule can never ensure that the learner has understood and applied it correctly.
Take, for example, the sequence: 3, 5, 7…. What is the next number? Many of you, I assume, will say: 9. That is of course a possibility (the assumption being that this is the sequence of odd numbers), but equally it could be 11 (assuming the sequence of primes). So who is right? No one—or, actually, both. Moreover, it is easy to show that any number you propose as the next term can be justified. If someone answers −27.43, I can easily justify that as well. How? Suppose the sequence is generated by:
F(n) = a + bn + cn2 + dn3
We have four fixed coefficients (a, b, c, d). If we require that for n=1 the function F yields 3, for n=2 it yields 5, for n=3 it yields 7, and for n=4 it yields −27.43, we get four equations in four unknowns. Solve them, and now we have an expression that justifies the answer −27.43 as the next term. And so for any number you like.
Now you wish to teach students the sequence of primes, so you write out the primes up to, say, 103, and assume they can now continue on their own. But, as noted, a student might understand that up to 103 these are primes and from there on it’s odd numbers; he will answer that the next is 105. You will never succeed in teaching him the rule, for learning a rule is always based on demonstrating it on a finite number of examples.
Wittgenstein concludes that rules have no independent standing. Their meaning depends on the examples and on the contexts of the learner who applies the rule learned. There is no way to transmit a rule from one to another without anchoring it in examples, and the examples can always be extended in whatever manner occurs to the learner. The continuation depends on his way of thinking and habits; there is no single “true” or “correct” continuation. From here we can see why the positivist method rests on an illusion—that acting by rules would minimize error and yield certainty. Not only is acting by rules not recommended; it is impossible. One cannot act by rules without illustrating them through specific examples, and those will in turn project back onto the rule’s meaning.
The conclusion is that positivism is not only ineffective; it is sheer illusion. There is no such thing as positivism. One cannot produce a law that is merely a set of rules and assume they will unambiguously determine the legal outcome for every new case before the judge. The judge will always have to use analogies and common sense; it is thus clear he will not always hit upon the legislator’s intent. This is also the idea behind the “general and particular” hermeneutic rules, as shown above. A rule has no meaning unless accompanied by examples that guide its addressee’s interpretation.
A principled conclusion
The conclusion from the analysis thus far is that one cannot base a normative system on a set of sweeping rules. On the other hand, we clearly cannot function without rules. By what do we decide the law in the case before us? What will guide our analogies to other cases? What are the relevant lines of similarity that determine whether this is similar or different? These are criteria that presuppose some rules. Recall Wittgenstein’s sequences: behind every continuation I proposed stood a rationale. If the next term is 9, the rationale is “odd numbers.” If the next is 11, the rationale is “primes.” If the next is −27.43, the rationale is “the function F with the coefficients we solved for.” So too in all the examples above. The assumption that one who places his fellow’s animal in another’s field is liable is based on a rationale of owner responsibility, from which we extract situations of responsibility even absent ownership. But we cannot jettison ownership entirely from the criteria for tort liability. The prohibition on lying is certainly sweeping, even though there are cases in which it is permitted. It is not true that there is no rule. There is a rule—but it is delicate and not amenable to positivist formulation.
Our path forward in legal and halakhic interpretation proceeds in a continual back-and-forth between examples and rules. We must form a rule out of the examples, return and test it on further examples, and then form an updated, more precise rule—again and again. This is a delicate tango between examples/applications and the rule, and we will never have certainty in the result nor a single, clear, universal outcome. Hence there will always be disagreements among interpreters; we will never rid ourselves of the nuisance of judicial legislation (see on this in the final part of my book Ru’ach HaMishpat). Both rules and cases (examples, applications) are needed in this tango; one cannot do without the other. Positivism assumes one can rely solely on rules and logic—an illusion. Casuistry assumes one can rely solely on precedents and examples—also an illusion.
The upshot is that one cannot interpret without rules—but one must beware of clinging to them. The Talmud speaks in cases and relies on us to infer rules from them. Occasionally it also mentions rules, but even then we must not take them too seriously. We must not adhere to them too tightly. We must always weigh their fit to the case before us. The Talmud says the law follows Abaye only in YaL KaGaM—yet there are additional cases where the law follows him. It is a guiding, approximate rule; we must beware of cleaving to it too tightly.
This does not mean there are no rules at all, or that rules are never precise and truly correct (and are only approximations). It is possible that there exist precise, sweeping rules and the problem lies in our formulations. Perhaps somewhere “in heaven” there is a set of general, precise rules that fully define halakhah; yet even so, our formulations may fail to capture them. Therefore, even if someone assumes that there are precise rules out there (i.e., that “pure halakhah” is a collection of exact, sweeping rules), we must always suspect that the current formulation of a rule is imprecise—just as in scientific research that strives for general laws of nature but assumes that almost always we are dealing only with approximations.[2]
The Talmud’s attitude to rules
From here we can understand the Talmud’s guarded attitude toward rules. Beyond what we have seen so far, I will bring two more examples.
As is known, the Mishnah rarely brings rules; rather, it deals in examples or cases. At the beginning of Bava Kamma, the Mishnah departs from its norm and brings a rule:
“There are four primary categories of damages: the ox, the pit, the mav’eh, and the fire. The ox is not like the mav’eh, and the mav’eh is not like the ox; and these two, which have breath of life, are not like fire, which has no breath of life; and these, which go forth and cause damage, are not like the pit, which does not go forth and cause damage.”
“The common denominator among them is that they are prone to cause damage (Rif’s version: ‘and they are your property’), and their guarding is upon you, and when they cause damage the damager is liable to pay the best of his land.”
After specific examples are cited, the Gemara presents their common denominator. Seemingly, if the Mishnah gives the rule, then the earlier examples are superfluous. Indeed, we might expect the Mishnahs always to give the rule rather than cases—it is more precise and efficient. Well, at least here the Mishnah did us a favor and gave the rule.
Yet the Gemara (6a) asks:
“What does ‘the common denominator among them’ come to include?”
A rather astonishing question. The Gemara sees redundancy in the Mishnah, for it brought both a rule and examples. It already senses something is unnecessary; but what it proposes to remove is the rule—not the examples. It does not understand why the rule was brought if there are examples. One would have expected it to ask the reverse: why give the examples if there is a rule? But for the Gemara, the examples are primary and the rule is secondary and peripheral.
This already points to a far-reaching conception. Not only is the rule not preferable and not necessary; even when given, it is superfluous. The examples do the work on their own; the rule is simply unnecessary.
A second example is in Kiddushin 34a (and parallels):
“Which is a positive commandment not time-bound? Mezuzah, parapet, returning lost property, and sending away the mother bird. And is that a rule? Behold, matzah, rejoicing [on festivals], and hakhel are positive commandments that are time-bound, and women are obligated! And furthermore: Torah study, procreation, and redemption of the firstborn are not time-bound positive commandments, yet women are exempt! Said Rabbi Yochanan: One does not learn from general principles, even where it is stated ‘except for…,’ as we learned: ‘One may make an eruv or shituf with anything, except for water and salt.’ And is that all? What about truffles and mushrooms? Rather, one does not learn from general principles, even where it is stated ‘except for…’.”
Note the Gemara’s startling innovation. Granted, if there is a general rule that women are exempt from all time-bound positive commandments and we find some exceptions, we can say “the Tanna taught the rule and omitted some exceptions.” But when the rule includes a detailed list of exceptions, one would expect there to be no further exceptions. It turns out that even where the rule states “except for…,” we should expect exceptions. This is overt disdain for rules—and precisely where the Gemara brings a rule. The lesson: even when using rules, we must treat them with limited trust and with suspicion: honor it, but doubt it.
It is no wonder that Maimonides—who knew the rule that the law follows Rava except for YaL KaGaM (“except for YaL KaGaM”)—rules like Abaye in additional cases, for he knew just as well the rule that “one does not learn from general principles—even where it is stated ‘except for…’.”
The relationship between practice and theory: halakhah and science
Halakhah deals with cases; theory (lamdanut) deals with rules. The relationship between them is complex. The positivist approach sees halakhah as deductive consequences of theory, but that is simplistic. In many instances the situation is reversed: theory is constructed as generalizations distilled from the insights gleaned from cases. Intuition precedes theoretical conceptualization.
I must admit that in the past I recoiled from practical halakhic decision-making. It seemed to me technical and boring—at best the application of analytic principles. Since then, I have matured. The complexity of real-world practice and its very ungentle fit with abstract, general theories is fascinating. Without analyzing cases with common sense, theories are not worth much. They receive their full meaning when they are set against cases. The theory that “ownership is required to be liable for damage caused by one’s property” is not worth much if one does not examine it against cases of placing someone else’s animal in another’s field, of a bailee whose deposit caused damage, of a thief, and so on.
In passing I will note that even in science, theory by itself—without being applied to cases—remains vague, unclear, and imprecise. Experiment does not only test the theory; it clarifies it and illuminates its implications. In the maturation process I described, I discovered that experimental science has a complexity that theoretical science lacks, with a beauty no less captivating. Their combination yields optimal understanding of the world—just as in halakhah the combination of cases and rules yields optimal understanding and the best decisions.
A concluding note
I have argued here for the Talmud’s casuistic character and explained the rationale underlying the decision to build it that way. Was this conscious? I am not at all sure. I do not know whether the Talmud’s editors consciously thought about how to edit it and decided to leave it in the pattern of give-and-take rather than bottom lines. But it seems to me a very wise decision, and I do think that at least intuitively (even if not fully consciously) this was their rationale. It would have been natural to build a binding halakhic code as Maimonides did, rather than like the Talmud. I do not believe this choice stemmed from primitive thinking or ignorance of the drawbacks of an open text. In my view, at least intuitively they understood the words of Nahmanides in the introduction to Milchamot Hashem:
“And you, the reader of my books, do not say in your heart that all my answers to our teacher Rabbi Zerachiah, of blessed memory, are in my eyes decisive proofs that compel you to concede, and that you will boast if you can raise a doubt against one of them—or that you will strain yourself to enter the eye of a needle to cast off the force of my proofs. It is not so. Every student of our Talmud knows that in the disputes of its commentators there are no absolute proofs, and that most difficulties are not conclusive—for in this wisdom there is no demonstrative proof like arithmetical calculations and physical experiments. Rather, we will put all our delight and suffice, in every dispute, to distance one of the opinions by weighty arguments; we will press the sources; and we will give greater credit to the side that better accords with the plain halakhot and the sound sugyot, together with the agreement of right reason. This is the limit of our ability and the aim of every wise man and God-fearing person in the wisdom of the Gemara.”
The Talmud’s editors only drew the obvious conclusions from this regarding the proper nature of such a work.
I have often noted the genius in the decision of the Sages of Israel to accept the Talmud as the canonical text defining halakhic discourse and decision-making. This is not in spite of its being an open text, but because of it. A closed text with rules and bottom lines would not have withstood changing circumstances and times, nor could it have provided unified answers for all shifting contexts and cultures. It is precisely an open text that enables a conversation among sages and communities of very different cultures, with all attempting to apply flexible principles drawn from Talmudic cases to the cases before them. Many disagreements and much non-uniformity arise—but this is to the Talmud’s credit, not its detriment. A closed, rigid (positivist) text would have shattered amid changing circumstances; today we would not live within a single halakhic culture, but in countless disparate halakhic systems with no possibility of dialogue between them. This is another cultural-historical expression of the decision to prefer casuistry over positivism.
Again, I do not mean to claim this was a conscious decision or that these were the reasons. In retrospect it turns out that the collective thinking that led to this choice was brilliantly effective. Without it, we would not be here today. Thanks to it we have a single halakhic system within which a conversation unfolds among divergent views, approaches, and positions—yet all can speak to one another, challenge and answer, and even sometimes be persuaded and decide. Without Talmudic casuistry, I doubt any of this would have happened.
[1] The connection to the usual meaning of “positivism” is not straightforward. Typically the term “positivism” describes the approach that separates law from morality (as against natural law). Here I use it somewhat differently. There is a connection between the two meanings (to explain it we would have to enter the topic of philosophical and scientific positivism), which I will not pursue here. Here I use “positivism” to describe the view of law as a collection of principles by which the judge is to decide using deductive logic.
[2] See on this in my weekly “Midah Tovah” essays for Parashat Ha’azinu, 5764–5765: essay 53 and essay 101.
The casuistic style, which illustrates the complex rules by describing real-life cases, makes it easier to absorb the complex message, and to memorize and remember it. This is doubly essential in Torah that is delivered orally and intended for a broad and popular public.
A short and simple case description is easier to formulate in a few, rhythmic words, and this is a critical need in Torah that is delivered orally in the manner of "to conclude and to explain." A Rabbi in a high school yeshiva told me that he imposed on a student as a punishment to memorize a chapter in the Mishnah and a chapter in the Rambam. The short, rhythmic words of the Mishnah They were easy to memorize orally, while the Rambam's teachings were difficult for the student to memorize by heart.
Moreover, only a few reached the Talmud and even fewer went on to teach (out of a thousand who enter the Bible, a hundred go on to the Mishnah; out of a hundred who enter the Mishnah, ten go on to the Talmud, and out of the ten, only one goes on to teach). The oral transmission of the Torah was intended, among other things, to maintain a constant connection between the people in the fields and the Torah teachers, so that not everyone would "shoot down the halakha from their own mishnah." Understanding a complex set of rules was intended to be the domain of the "Talmud scholars." May they safely guide their brothers who are preoccupied with their work, for whom the Bible and the Mishnah give them the basic knowledge, which brings them the ’knowledge to ask’, but not the ability to make independent rulings.
Best regards, Yaron Fish”l Ordner
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… While the words of Maimonides”m…
It should also be noted that most of the Torah literature in Sheva was not written as a planned composition. When an author sits down to compose a book, he can choose the most appropriate and concise formulation. Even if there was a desire to create such a composition, no one had time to do so. The sages were preoccupied with their work, teaching their students and answering their questions, hiding and fleeing from pursuers, etc., so that there was no time left for careful formulation.
Each sage collected the rumors he heard from his rabbis and his authors and the topics that came up in the questions of the people and students, and arranged the things in an initial arrangement, by topic or according to the order of the Bible, etc. Even when Rabbi Yehuda the President came to organize all the material that had accumulated with him, he tried not to significantly change the sources from which he compiled his composition.
And beyond that, a composition that is closer to the form of a lively and natural discussion, and accompanied by ’cases from life’ – is more interesting and more attractive to readers or listeners. Plato also preferred to present his philosophical system, not as a methodical composition, but as a lively discussion.
Best regards, Eliam Fish”l Werkheimer
In the world of Greek philosophy, it was Aristotle who changed Plato's dialogical style and began writing methodical essays by topic. Aristotle's writings reached the Jewish world in their Arabic translation during the period of the Geonim, and the sages of Israel began to discuss and grapple with his views in the fields of philosophy and science.
Perhaps inspired by the encounter with Aristotle's methodical writing, some of the Geonim, for example, Rabbi Shmuel ben Hafni and Rabbi Hayy Gaon, also began writing halakhic monographs formulated in a methodical manner. The pinnacle of this genre is Maimonides' work, Mishna Torah, which molded the world of halakhic law into a methodical pattern. In the field of Jewish thought, the Ramachal followed the path of methodical writing in his books, Mesilat Yesharim, and And the way of the.
With regards, Yiftach Kadmoni Buch-Terger
An example of a set of defined rules (although with many exceptions) is language, which usually has a complex set of grammatical rules. On the other hand, someone who speaks a native language fluently, in many cases does not know how to define the rules, but does know how to use them precisely in his fluent speech, as he has learned from his parents and those around him.
I remember my astonishment when I discovered that in many languages (except Hebrew and English9) each word has a different ending (its relation) according to its syntactic role in the sentence. The ending of the nominative is not the same as the ending of the accusative, nor is the ending of the genitive (indirect object) the same as the ending of the dative. And I was really taken aback by the Arab, Turkish, Hungarian, French, Russian, and other children who know how to distinguish between a nominative and a dative in every word they say. ‘Acoustivos’, ‘Gentivos’ and ’Datives’, what Moshe Aharon and Shakespeare did not achieve 🙂
With greetings, Shalev Sheftel Breitman
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… As the suffix ’acoustivos’ ( = direct object), and not as the suffix ’genitivos’ ( = possessive) as the suffix …
And back to the Talmud –
The ’casuistic’ nature is also required by the nature of the transmitted rumors, which were often said as practical guidance to the questioner or the community, when naturally the things were defined as instructions of ‘do’ or ‘don't do’. If one wants to preserve and pass on the traditions – it is important to transmit them literally.
When the students have in their hands a collection of traditions and rumors that is as complete as possible, the in-depth researcher can define ‘rules’ that will allow the ’transmitted Torah’ to be applied to new cases from an understanding of the guiding principle of all the details.
The ’casuistic nature’ It is appropriate for the stage of 'finishing', the precise delivery of the rumors, while the 'rules' are appropriate for the more advanced stage, the stage of 'explaining', in which the in-depth reader can define the principles and by them 'understand one thing from another'.
With greetings, Sh”b
Also in the example we gave of language, the stage of learning the language from exposure to the speech of the environment comes first, and only at a more advanced stage will the student learn the 'rules'
Rabbi Sh”b, it seems to me that the question is still much heavier than the excuses. I ponder with regret how many mistakes were caused by the Mishnah's avoidance of revealing its secrets, how much unnecessary effort was invested in deciphering it (and then future generations worked to decipher the various decipherments), and what wonderful products could have been if this effort had been invested in other places. Perhaps, for example, we would have a Babylonian text today that is full of seeds and purity. This seems to be a truly outrageous approach by the Mishnah (and other books in turn), so the explanations for it should be large enough to fill the enormous Torah gap that this approach has seemingly created. Generally speaking, it is certainly not enough, but in individual cases, it is also really not enough, and both are necessary (as shown in the column).
[“Generally” This may be a strong word, we can be satisfied with the Mishnah revealing the “dialing area” that is, what the subject is in general. I saw, for example, a mishna in which the Gemara is not sure whether the dispute concerns a conspiracy against the holy place, or a violation of a vow that was publicly made, or a question about the holy place. Why this mystery is good is incomprehensible. And it is not that the mishna abstains from rules, since even in it there are sometimes rules for specific cases within the laws of Tovfat (which number in their dozens when searching for “this is the rule.” And see an interesting example of two (types of) rules one after the other in Mishna Shavuot 8:6).]
Do you think the disadvantage caused by the lack of rules is great and yet your explanations are sufficient, or do you think that the disadvantage is not that great and therefore relatively side-by-side explanations are sufficient (there were hassles; it is easy to convey and memorize; they did not want to change it by adding; the rumors were given as practical instruction and were thus preserved).
In S”d 2”d Sivan p”b
In short:
The mishnayots did not begin their journey as a structured collection, but rather as short summaries that were transmitted orally, and their short formulation made it possible to absorb, memorize, and remember them. Such short summaries were made during the period of the Tannaim by countless people, some of them authoritative Tannaim and some of them were less authoritative students.
Naturally, the Tannaim tried even before the Rabbis to ‘order’ the stormy sea, and to compile files that would contain a selection of the summaries, the most accurate and exhaustive in the opinion of the editor, which were not necessarily the same as the opinions of other editors.
Even when Rabbi Yehuda the President compiled his collection – he avoided drastic changes in the abstract, which would have been ‘crazy’ The many variations that were accustomed to the old versions, and adopting a completely different version would have completely confused the scribes.
There is also no need to change the usual short summaries, since they were never intended for use as sections of a book of laws, but rather as summaries for memory, with which the student can enter a lesson in which the rabbi explains the matters in their own way and with their reasoning. And the sages warned against relying on the Mishnahs and deducing laws from them.
In short: In principle, the short summaries were not originally intended to eliminate the living connection between rabbi and student. It was only in a later period, with the intensification of the processes of dispersion of the people and the increasing disconnect between the countries with the disintegration of the Roman Empire, that the need for writing down the oral Torah increased. Thus, on the one hand, the oral Torah was preserved, but on the other hand, the confusion arising from the multitude of possible interpretations of the ’text’ And the inability to accept an immediate decision from a living and breathing commentator.
One simply needs to understand the reality of a Torah that is entirely transmitted and interpreted orally, and not throw back a later reality of a multitude of written literature.
With greetings, Shalev Shaftal Breitman
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… from drastic changes in wording, which were…
We are no longer able to imagine the reality that existed during the time of the Temple, when three times a year all the sages and their students from all over the world gather in Jerusalem, or the reality of the "Yirchai Kala" (full moons) in the Babylonian yeshivas, where all the sages of Babylon and their students gather and study together for two months each year. At such gatherings, the sufficiency is clarified and clarified, and points of agreement and disagreement are defined,
With blessings, Shab
There was something similar in Poland during the heyday of the "Va'ad Arba'arzt" (to the Four Lands), when all the rabbis (with their students) and all the Pharisees and heads of the communities would gather during the two annual fairs, and in parallel with the "Yirchai" (fair) there was also a "Yirchai" (fair) A spiritual place where all the sages of the ‘ lands’ could exchange opinions.
From the fair gatherings, the ‘Between the Times’ was created, at the end of winter and the end of summer, when all the yeshiva heads, who were also the rabbis and judges of the communities, would leave the order of studying the tractates in the yeshiva and engage in a common discussion of the current Torah issues that were on the agenda. There, the complicated legal disputes would be resolved and from there, the essential public regulations would emerge.
What is the abbreviation "contributory fault"?
When the injured or harmed person negligently contributed to the outcome, this is called contributory fault.
And what is the simplified "close mentoring rule" [I won't make it any harder. These are the only two terms that were foreign to me here].
An approximate guideline is a rule that is not exact but only guides you in the right direction. Unlike the previous one, this is my term.
A1. You wrote that pure positivism does not fit with the Nuremberg Laws. Is this a criticism of positivism as opposed to casuism in the sense of the column (derivation from rules versus learning from cases).
A2. Demonstrating the problem of following a rule, that is, the problem of deriving the rule from a collection of examples, and then instead of criticizing casuism with this, you criticized positivism. I did not understand (why this is not a criticism of casuism, and why it is a criticism of positivism).
B. Your method of doing things over and over again between rules and cases. There is room for study in this. You seem to believe that a person's mind should rest only on a method that achieves harmony, meaning that he looks at his rule (through his “power of judging rules”) and looks at the cases before him (through his “power of judging cases”) and at the end of the process the judgments converge. If these two powers of judgment are different, then there is no need to reach harmony. If a person only has the power to judge cases and from there they try to generalize the rules, then it is clear that harmony must be reached (and that cases have priority). For example, I think that it is possible to directly observe moral rules, and it is also possible to observe concrete cases, and there is certainly a possible irresolvable dissonance between the judgments, because the power to judge rules stands on its own and the power to judge cases stands on its own, and sometimes one simply has to decide the conflict between these two normative systems and not override the rule for the sake of the case, and there is also no need for the opinion on the case to change automatically in light of the rule. [Here https://did.li/ratzo-vashov1 and also here https://did.li/ratzo-vashov2 Section B2]. The questions are A’ Do you think these powers of judgment are separate in some sense or is there only the power of judgment of cases (for the legislator, and the same is true for the judge and the moral thinker) and why? B. If the powers are separate, then do you indeed assume that it is necessary to achieve harmony between them.
C. Tanya in Two Carts Analogy is induction and deduction. This means that anyone who discusses comparing different cases must go through the mediation of the general, consciously or not. So what is meant by “rarely in a case where the Gemara itself tries to extract the general from the case. In most cases this is done by the commentators.” Can you give one or two examples for a case? After all, everywhere they say Mai Ta’ama and Mai Kamiflagi and Ha Meni R’ So-and-so is Damer, etc., and there are many rules (seemingly in almost every issue), and any question that is not a frontal contradiction, like most questions, is an analogy and mediated through the rule.
A1. I wrote that there is a connection between these meanings. Positivism is based on rules that have been enacted and what gives them validity is the enactment. In this sense, the Nuremberg Trials contradict it.
A2. Positivism tries to achieve certainty and univocality. Casuism does not.
B. I do not know if they are different. The examination of cases may be based on unformulated and unconscious rules. But we have the ability to know what is true even without being aware of the rules in the background.
C. As I answered before, there are unformulated rules. Analogy assumes them, but is not aware of them. Sometimes the Gemara brings out the rules that underlie the Mishnah, but usually this is done in the commentaries.
D1. The Gemara itself makes a question of the rules of jurisprudence and does not excuse that one cannot learn from generalities. In a search, I saw 3 times that the Gemara makes it difficult to learn from the rule of Rabbi Yochanan, which is everywhere in the Mishna Halacha as in the Sheba except for 3 matters, and its justifications are as diverse as “Amorai Ninhu and Eliva Rabbi Yochanan”, but it did not say that one cannot learn from generalities. Furthermore, in the rules of jurisprudence between the conditions, Eruvin Mo, several rules were stated there (such as Rabbi Shimon and Rabbi Yehuda’s halakhah as Rabbi Yehuda’s), and then Rav Mesrashia said “let it be a rule” because he found one case that contradicted the rule. This means that Rav Mesrashia understood that the rule of jurisprudence really stands in contrast to the exceptions and that one can learn from the rules. And the Gemara does reject his claim, “There is no such thing as Itamar, Itamar, or Itamar, not Itamar.” And the Rabbis, “There is no such thing as Itamar in the Hadiya, the law is like Rabbi Shimon Itamar, and that the Rabbis and Rabbis followed the law like Rabbi Yehuda, the law is like Itamar, not Itamar, not Itamar.” In other words, we learn from generalizations (at least in the rules of case law, the sole purpose of which is to enable or summarize the case law without deciding on the merits of the matter) unless there is an explicit and solid revelation to the contrary.
D2. The sub-rule that personal rules of case law were stated about the people themselves and not when they are arguing for the sake of arguing for others seems logical to me. If we are arguing in tradition, then it is obvious that the rule is irrelevant. And even if one disagrees on the question of what a certain person thought, without expressing their own opinion on the subject, then it is not certain from the nature of the matter. Because a personal rule of law (like Abaye and Rava, or Rav and Shmuel in Issurei Vedini) deals with the advantage of one person in explaining the substance of the matter, but not necessarily with his advantage in slandering the understanding of the ancients.
And it seems that this is a general subrule in all personal rules of law (in a search for ‘denfashiyeh’ I saw in the beginning that Rabbeinu Yonah brought and also said this subrule himself regarding the dispute between Rabba and Rav Yosef from hearsay. I almost certainly remember seeing this subrule in the beginning somewhere in a more extensive way, but right now I was unable to find it in a search and perhaps my memory is faulty). The logic, at least when one disagrees from hearsay and not from a commentator, such as a certain person, is very similar to what is in the Gemara Eruvin 2. Regarding the linguistic rule in the words of Rabbi Yehuda, which is not valid when Rabbi Yehuda says from there Rabbi Tarfon. (I got there by sheer chance. I just wanted to open a random topic to see what the relationship between the rules and the cases is, so for the sake of argument I opened Tractate 4, page 81, and there I saw the above.
And after all, the poskim are certainly subject to the rules of ruling in the Gemara and mention the rules everywhere unless they have a really good reason to deviate from them, meaning that there are strong indications to the contrary, such as Deslik in the Yoveta or that later Amoraim Shekeli and Teri Alibia are particularly important, and so on, and not just based on personal judgment as to what seems more likely (therefore, I do not know what your solution to the Rambams that you brought is. If he had indications from the topic to rule like Abaye, then it is clear that it overrides the rule. But if not, then it remains a question).
E. The whole matter of the importance of cases is nice, but in practice it has caused complications. For example, the Mishnah says, “He who places the jar in public property and another comes and stumbles upon it and breaks it is exempt,” and the Gemara grapples with why and when it is exempt, and cites justifications that Rav, Shmuel, and Rabbi Yochanan made, until Ulla’s explanation comes, “Because there is no way for humans to observe the roads” (and it turns out that Rav, Shmuel, and Rabbi Yochanan did not hold that view). Why didn’t the Mishnah write like Maimonides, “He who places the jar in public property and another walks by and stumbles upon it and breaks it is exempt, since there is no way for humans to observe the roads”? After all, this is the rule, which the Gemara establishes, and which Maimonides ruled on, and therefore it is probably correct (and the case illustrates the level at which they said that there is no way for humans to observe the roads). So what was the harm in the Mishnah adding the dialing area (the rule) so that we would know how to get around? It seems that a great many discussions in the Gemara could have been saved with a few simple words that were added to the Mishnah. Do your words in the column also include a solution to this problem? In other words, even in simple and necessary things, the Mishnah supposedly does not lift a finger to give (also) the rule so that future generations will understand correctly.
D1. Apparently there are no rules in this either.
D2. The rule of Abaye and Rava seems to be summary and not based on an a priori advantage of Rava. Summarize all the rulings and see that in all of them the rule was followed by Rabbah Bar in six cases. I do not see the logic in this reservation, since if one follows a Rabbah, then one must also follow him in the question of tradition. What's more, this is not a debate about tradition but a debate that depends on the opinion of ancient sages. This is not a debate about who someone else is, but whether to follow such-and-such or unknown.
I agree that a rule has meaning and only if there are reasons not to follow it. This is exactly what I argued.
E. It is clear that rules can be useful, and it is not without reason that commentators find rules in the explanation of the Gemaras. But as I wrote, if a rule is formulated, it may cause us to adhere to it and then miss the mark in exceptional cases. Therefore, the Gemara adopts a policy that disclaims rules.
D1. I don't understand. The Gemara in the above-mentioned Eruvin Mo deals directly with the reference to the rules of jurisprudence and explicitly sees there the non-facile approach that allows one to deviate from any rule even without a solid and robust disclosure (Rabbi Mesharshia there generally thought that any rule that has an exception is not a rule at all).
D2. Is it statistically likely that a summary rule would be so one-sided? And even if so, then from the summary we learn that Rava has an advantage and it is possible to easily generalize to cases that were not sampled (therefore, in principle, the summary does not need to be comprehensive). Even in the debate about whether to follow a certain person or an unknown person, I see no reason to follow Rava specifically (Rava and even more so Tanna?), why in such a debate does it make sense to prefer Rava's ruling?
“Reasons” Deviating from the rule cannot be a matter of personal discretion but rather a revelation from someone who also has the authority to annul the rule (as the above-mentioned Gemara says that the rules of cassation between the conditions exist except when it is explicitly stated against it). Therefore, I do not understand how the freedom to give "reasons" solves the problem in the Rambam.
D1. Indeed, the Gemara in Kiddushin also deals with rules and says what it says. That is why I wrote that there are no rules in this either.
D2. Why not follow the Tanna and a Rabbi who rules similarly? How is this different from ruling on some substantive issue? After all, in the end, it is also a question of plan.
Who has the authority to grant exemption from the rule regarding the exemption of women from the act of משהגעזרען?
D1. So you don't accept the division I proposed between rules of cassation and other rules. Why not, this is the obvious explanation for why the Gemara in Eruvin absolutely refuses to say "there is no learning from generalities" about the rules of cassation, and so do the Gemaras who are urged to leave alone the rule of Rabbi Yochanan that was ruled by Kersheb in the Mishnah. Rules of cassation are by their very nature intended to summarize and enable the ruling even without going into the substance of the matter, that is their whole essence, and therefore if in the end it is still necessary to revisit the issue and decide (because there may be reasons of discretion to deviate from the rule) then it is a complete waste of time. What is not true of rules like the one that time is a gramma that were intended to teach a Torah principle and therefore somehow it is more possible that they omitted things that could be learned from elsewhere.
D2. Why is that, and that after Rava joined one of the sides (each of whom we consider greater than Rava and Abaye) then suddenly in our eyes the balance of power tilts in his favor, I wonder.
The one who has the authority to say that there are exceptions to the rule is the one from whom we learned the rule, for example the Mishnah and the Baraita, I didn't understand what you meant by that comment.
D1. Indeed, I do not accept it. Why would there be a difference? Add to this the exception to the rules that appear frequently in halakha (such as the example of Maimonides who ruled against my father).
Incidentally, perhaps the solution to the personal rules of case law that you cited is that these are summary rules (meaning that they were created a posteriori, after reviewing the various rulings), and therefore when we find an exceptional example, we say that the rule does not summarize correctly, which is not possible. But an a priori rule that establishes a case law principle is only a deliberate rule, and therefore there is no reason why it should have exceptions. It is a bit difficult to treat a sweeping rule as a summary rule. In fact, Ya'el Kagham seems to be a summary rule because of the exceptions.
D2. And the fact that the Tan'im were greater than the Amoraim does not mean anything, because in any case, the Amoraim are the ones who decide in Tan'im disputes. Therefore, in the end, this is an Amoraic dispute.
D1. But it is known that the personal rules of jurisprudence in Eruvin Mo cannot be summary because they are transitive?
[Regarding the reason for not accepting the division on the grounds of ‘why should there be a difference’, in my opinion, the evidence from Eruvin is strong and is seen as showing that the Gemara takes the rules of jurisprudence with abysmal seriousness and solemnly denies the idea that there are exceptions that are not explicitly stated in their place. The evidence from Rabbi Yochanan and Rashba also seems fine to me. I also see logic in the reasoning for the division. And what do you suggest instead, that the Maimonides had some unknown reason for ruling as I do, and by virtue of this mysterious reason he waved goodbye to the rules of jurisprudence engraved in the rock of the Shas. Statistical work is indeed required here, but in the current state of the data, I stand by my position]
This is indeed Ra”u's view. But you yourself answered that, claiming that even a summary rule is based on logic that wise man A is better than B and therefore ruled like him. If so, then transitivity is also possible in a summary rule.
That is, you offer an explanation in the Gemara there in Eruvin, which is that in a general (judgment) summary, transitivity is possible, but there are no unexpressed exceptions (expressed in the body of the general or expressed in place of the exception). This means that you perceive the summary as a completely sweeping summary. They went over all the cases and made a summary with a few exceptions, and then they also drew conclusions about the people from that and made transitivity. [I understand, by the way, that this is not really your method, since you accept with understanding the Maimonides, who in his unknown judgment suddenly decided to rule like my father here and there against a general rule of summary judgment, but according to me, you are right and you are wrong].
But if that is the case, then there is no reason to think that they really went over all the cases and made a sweeping summary, because it is enough to go over a representative sample to draw conclusions about the people, and therefore they decided that in general the law is as a rabbi. Just as in the transitive phase they were satisfied with information about the man's advantage, so they could be satisfied with this information based on a non-exhaustive summary. [And why are there exceptions, because there were several known disputes in which Abaye's opinion was accepted and was apparently the dominant law, and therefore they made exceptions to them].
perhaps
Regarding following a rule from examples, you said that for each collection of examples there could be an infinite number of different rules (each rule is a conservative doctrine) and you demonstrated it with a polynomial. This is an old thing, but I still don't understand what you found in a polynomial more than a rule that lists the examples without any explanation (because it cannot be formulated in a shorter form). After all, an arbitrarily ticked polynomial has no priority over any other ticked rule. On the one hand, you demand that there be some logic in the proposed rule (and therefore require the inventor of the rule to produce a smooth function, and for some reason this counts more in your eyes than anything else) but on the other hand, you do not set any serious conditions for this logic. And it is clear that if you set conditions for logic such as human opinion and Occam's razor, etc., then the practical problem is largely solved.
You explained to me before https://did.li/follow-rule “When you create a function, it helps you explain why there is “logic” behind the surprising continuation you propose. Your trivial (Wittgensteinian) argument can be answered by saying that you are an idiot and don’t understand, and that’s it [I proposed there “On 1 I return 1, on 2 I return 2, on 3 I return 3, on 4 I return 4, on 5 I return 17″]. The fact that there is some idiot who is sure that 1+2=16.8 does not make it a legitimate and acceptable statement like answer 3. But when you present a function, you show that your continuation is no less well-founded than any other continuation. I don’t see what is not understood here”.
What is not understood is the hierarchy that you establish between different logics. If one needs a hierarchy between logics (a polynomial is preferable to the casual and unreasoned argument that I proposed), and this hierarchy is based on a non-scientific opinion, then the entire practical problem disappears. [Therefore, it seems to me that the polynomial thing dulls the sting of Mr. Ludwig's argument].
It is argued that a polynomial is stronger than a rule of thumb. There is a law that is common to all cases. The fact that the practical problem is solved is completely true, and that is exactly what I argued. Do not seek certainty and rules because they do not solve the problem unless common sense (human opinion) is also added to them. A rule alone does not work, and therefore there is no certainty.
[If it is exhausted, I will try to clarify at least for myself. I asked from two perspectives, A. What is the advantage of a polynomial over a strange rule, B. If it has an advantage *and therefore* you used it, then to the same extent the real rule has an advantage over the polynomial. You answered that there is an advantage to the polynomial because it has a regularity that is common to all cases. This is incomprehensible, since every rule (for example, a list of numbers) has a regularity that is the rule itself. And from now on, B. wakes up and says that at the problem stage, regularities are not yet ranked according to “reasonableness” and therefore the polynomial, like any other rule, is strange and illusory, no matter how it may be, and at the solution stage, when they are ranked, then the problem is solved as you say because the correct regularity is “more reasonable” even than polynomials. Therefore, I still haven't understood what the polynomial contributes and why it doesn't impair the sharpness of the argument by implicitly introducing considerations of probability. Perhaps it contributes didactically in the first stage before climbing to the full argument that accepts all the ’rules’ all.
I haven't yet grasped your surprising use of the deductive argument to criticize the certainty requirement of the posit’ (as you answered me above in A2) and I need to look into the matter ]
Both of your comments here stem from a misunderstanding of the same point. You are absolutely right that you always need common sense to accompany the rules. That is exactly what I argued. I am not against rules, but against adhering to them and seeing them as the basis for certainty.
1. The polynomial has an advantage just like the ”correct” legality. But this advantage is of common sense and not by virtue of the rule itself, and hence there is no certainty in it either.
2. The argument of following a rule does not show that there are no rules, but that they do not stand on their own and there is no certainty in them. You cannot be satisfied with them alone without common sense.
[I think I did understand this clarified point and within its framework my words stand. But if not, then no.]
In the book of Proverbs 22:2, we must also have some definite rules, so that at the end of the day, the citizen who is charged with observing the law will know what his duty is in this world, what the limits of what is permitted and what the limits of what is prohibited are. It is not right that only in retrospect and after the fact will a person discover from the court's ruling whether he acted correctly or not.
If we want law-abiding citizens, we must both lay down rules and illustrate them with clear examples, so that every citizen will know what is prohibited, what is permitted, and what is borderline, requiring a "wise man's question."
This marked the differences between Justice Shamgar, the late Justice, and Justice Barak. Although both were innovators, Shamgar was careful to lay down clear rules so that the citizen would know in advance the limits of what was forbidden and what was permitted, while Barak left many of the questions to the court's rulings, which by their nature are "wisdom after the fact."
Best regards, Shalom Shaftil Halevi Breitman
Paragraph 2, line 1
… We must also formulate rules…
Paragraph 3, line 2
… He was careful to avoid formulating rules…
Note:
In Torah law, formulating rules that everyone would know – is less necessary, since the aspiration was always that in every place there would be someone who would teach the people the law, whose door would be constantly open and who could be regularly consulted before taking action, which is not found in the general legal system, whose leaders do not answer the ’halachic questions’ of the ’ordinary citizen’.
Therefore, it was possible to leave to the halachic teachers in each site the discretion to what extent to define the rules for the common man and to what extent to leave them as ’oral Torah’. As the process of dispersion of the people increased due to the difficulties of exile and as the changes in the ways of life became more rapid and numerous, the need to formulate the ’rules’ and make them accessible to the general public grew.
Best regards, Shasha”b
Hi
I understand that you brought up the late Wittgenstein mainly in the illustration of the idea of the limitations of abstract rules. But since I have an oversensitivity to this rascal, I wanted to comment on his contribution to this topic. Although in one of your answers to Tirgitz you said nicely what is true with respect to rules and what is not, there is a point (and certainly a pleasure) in discussing him in detail on other matters.
Wittgenstein's move is not a “modest” attempt to show the limitations of the use of rules and to point out that they are never certain. If that were the whole move, then he is right.
His overall move is an attempt to undermine metaphysics as it is – even though his attempt rests on legs that are themselves metaphysical, and hence his failure – and therefore to undermine all “order” or rationality whatsoever. In my opinion, a consistent interpretation of his philosophy means that even basic human speech (and therefore all philosophy, including his own) is meaningless. After all, speech is also subject to ”rules” and ”fulfillment of rules”.
Regarding the vitality of the Talmud based on its casuistic nature – every word is in stone. But this intellectual and cultural vitality sometimes has a heavy price: a sacrifice of truth and rationality for the sake of “life” and for the sake of the resilience of the individual and the resilience of the civilization in which he lives. This is not always a price worth paying…
I think some of what I wrote in the first paragraph is more true of the early Wittgenstein (the Tractatus). One must be careful not to confuse the rule-following argument of the later Wittgenstein with his radical approach in his early version.
He was a son of Belial when he was “early” and a son of the son of Belial even when he was late. There the wicked will rot, they will be scattered.
Without Yael or with Yael, it shouldn't be made harder sooner rather than later.
I didn't understand Wittgenstein's theorem. In fact, the rule ” write down the odd numbers” or “the prime numbers” would not lead to any error. Whereas examples 3, 5, 7 have many possibilities for continuation. Therefore, this is evidence in favor of putivism, not against it
Wittgenstein explains there that even the rule of odd or prime numbers (in fact, the whole number system) cannot be explained without examples, and therefore in the end the rules will not work without our intuition and habits. Any series of examples you bring to explain the rule will not necessarily be able to really hit upon it.
Honestly, Rabbi, I didn't understand. It's quite simple to define the odd-numbered series. The first term is one, and the definition is:
a(n)=1+(n-1)*2
I don't define the rule using examples, that's exactly the point.
On the other hand, when learning only from cases, then I can reach a situation of 3,5,7… 24.7389, because I have to derive the rule myself. Although there is a choice by intuition and common sense, in a situation where two generalizations seem reasonable (prime or odd) – there is a problem, compared to a case where the rule is given.
I appreciate your answer, thank you very much!
You've just circumvented the problem. Now you need to explain to your students the meaning of the symbols in the formula and their use.
A. How did the Amoraim decide a Tannaim dispute (at least when there is no rule) I do not know but it seems that sometimes it is also a matter of interpretation (right?). But how did the Rishonim decide a Halacha in an Amoraim dispute? Is it possible for them to decide from an interpretation of their own mind to the merits of the matter, as Rabbi Papa seems to think, and not as Rabbi Huna Bariya Rabbi Yehoshua, or do they always have to resort to a meaning from the Gemara that leans more to one side or rely on some rule.
I have no knowledge but it seems to me that it is a simple matter that the Rishonim do not decide from an interpretation to the merits of an Amoraim dispute. If there is a question from the Senna and the like and one of them makes a compelling argument, perhaps they can rule against him. But is it possible for just an Amoraim dispute that remains as it is to rule from an interpretation? This is not only a factual question about the Rishonim but a ‘normative’ question; what are the limits of the authority of a ‘first-order posek’ in your terms.
B. You explained in a wonderful way what is the shortcoming of a theoretical rule that sometimes is unable to grasp the abstract definition, and you brought general and specific dimensions, and zanzul, and giving a divorce and a harmful one, and also that the Gemara asks for a generality for the times of May and also says that one cannot learn from generalities even in a place where it says except. Therefore, as a rule, they tried (consciously or not) to avoid rules.
And in this you concluded that the Rambam sometimes deviates from the rules of the case law and you wrote, “It is no wonder that the Rambam, who knows well the rule that the Rabbis ruled with the exception of Yael Kagam, rules as I do in additional cases, since he also knows no less well the rule that one cannot learn from generalities even in a place where it says except.” Therefore, there is no need for the words of many others who start adding epicycles and differentials to the Talmudic rule, etc. Where did they get this sub-rule? As far as I understood, it was only from their imagination. So your words. [That is, you expanded the tendency and said that we cannot learn from generalities even in the rules of jurisprudence, even though there is no elusive theoretical rule there]
Can you clarify for me what you mean that the Rambam deviated from the rule. Did he find in that place that it seemed to him of itself that it was more obvious to me than to me on the merits of the matter. Or did he find meaning or evidence in the Gemara. Or is it a matter of strength? How much strength of meaning is needed from the Gemara itself in order to rule that the Gemara itself wishes to deviate from the rule. As for finding meaning or evidence from the Gemara, it certainly seems to the Rabbis (that is, even the owners of the rules who create the epicyclicals) who deviate from the rules when there is evidence to the contrary. Only where they did not find evidence from the issue here or there do they go looking for why the rule does not apply. And when the rule does not apply, then ostensibly they go to look for another rule by virtue of which the Maimonides did rule (for example, because of the Torah, he followed the stricter one).
A. I commented on this in my article on autonomy in case law. Usually the first ones ruled according to rules, or the meaning of the issue. But there are certainly cases in which they themselves write that they ruled according to a clear opinion (its reasons are clear).
B. I don't know. I just know that he deviated. It could be because his opinion is clear or because he found another issue that was blocked by my opinion. I don't think you'll find anyone who will tell you that there is a block from my opinion and therefore they deviate from Ya'el Kagham's rule. Therefore, I don't agree that it's easy for the poskim. Absolutely not. On the contrary, if they find something like that, they will make it difficult.
A. Thank you very much. I didn't know that (although of course I read the article on autonomy at the time, I didn't remember. And in a search now I saw that Rabbi Inbal brought a host of sources for the cases you described that were decisive from the interpretation).
And what do you think a poske is allowed to do today, he sees before him a disagreement between Rav and Shmuel on the prohibition and in his interpretation it seems to him (very much) like the opinion of Shmuel? Is he allowed from the perspective of formal authority to rule (for himself at least) like Shmuel?
B. Apparently if Rambam can rule as apocalipse because his taste is clear to him then it is quite surprising that there are only a few exceptions to the rule (I didn't check and I don't know how to check but it seems logical to me to assume that if Rambam had many poske rulings as apocalipse then it was a well-known thing such as in Tzitz Eliezer that you mentioned in the column and in Reka that he refers to and I read parts of them and I didn't see that they mentioned that there are many such deviations). Perhaps you mean that only if there is a large difference in interpretation (in the eyes of the posak) in favor of Abaye, then he can rule contrary to the rule and not just because he chooses an interpretation of himself in some tendency among the collection of Amoraim opinions presented in the Gemara (and if so, then why is this so).
[ Regarding the issue of an exception to the rule by virtue of a samma dasugya (otherwise). Also in the case of the shta Didi because it was mentioned and I mistakenly thought it was a simple matter. I have now seen in Malachi the rule of Kenad ‘halakta kevtiya dabaye biel kagam esztít’ which claimed that if it is said except, then the rule prevails over the meaning in the Gemara, and he cited a sach who believes that the meaning in the Gemara (I understood that the intention was a meaning in some sugya) has the power to exclude the rule. Photo here https://ibb.co/60n34xD. It is a pity that I have no way of finding more real sources than this].
He only did it when it was very clear to him that I was sick and not with a bent mind.