A Contemporary Look at Narratives (Column 391)
With God’s help
Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.
I assume there’s no need to tell readers of this site that the term “narrative” usually makes my skin crawl. Its common use is as a postmodern alibi for liars and/or the wicked. The trick is to claim there is no truth or falsehood and no good or evil, and therefore all that exists are narratives. If so, we are all, of course, equally right, and clearly there’s no point in quarreling and fighting—the obvious conclusion being: “the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.” Needless to say, this doesn’t work, since wolves generally aren’t persuaded that the lamb also has a narrative, and if they can, they eat them. Ben-Gurion already said it in his golden tongue: I yearn for the fulfillment of the prophecy “the wolf shall dwell with the lamb,” but in any case it’s essential to ensure that we are the wolf in this lovely story. But that’s old news. Here I wish to note a few further distinctions within the “narrativist” approaches that can carry considerable principled and practical significance.
Narrativity Following the Recent Riots
In the wake of the riots of recent weeks I returned to thinking about this odious concept, since debates now—in the media and online—rage in full force around each side’s narratives, Arab and Jewish. The arguments revolve around who started, who did more, who’s to blame, etc., etc. It does not surprise me to discover that the narratives are inverted: from the Arab point of view, Jews are cold-bloodedly murdering them and conquering Al-Aqsa while perpetrating a mass slaughter of all the Muslims in the universe, and they are merely defending themselves, half-heartedly and with meager means. The Jews, of course, broadcast the opposite narrative (which in this case—as in most cases with the Arabs, though not all—is closer to the truth).
Nor will any of you be surprised to find that the right–left axis usually determines one’s attitude to the various narratives—though here I do discern a welcome phenomenon of a certain sobering within the moderate left. Quite a few journalists and others are not buying the Arab narrative in these cases. They too understand that we’re dealing with a crushing combination of mendacity and fertile Oriental imagination, generously seasoned with a pinch of whining—sometimes with a kernel of truth mixed in. Some adopt the creative tactic of rejecting symmetry debates. After you, as a leftist, have built your whole world on symmetry (“we’re just as bad as they are,” etc.), now that the picture of symmetry—or rather asymmetry—becomes clear, the recommended counsel is to mock discussions of symmetry.
During the riots (mainly toward their end, when the propaganda war was in full swing) I had a WhatsApp exchange with an Arab sheikh from Lod with whom I’d had some prior connection. I knew him as a moderate and balanced person, and I thought he surely would not identify with a letter published in the name of the Arab public’s representatives in Lod—a text full of inflammatory lies and ridiculous demands from the entire universe and his wife, except of the Arabs themselves. When I read the letter I chuckled to myself, since it was clear to me it was the initiative of a bored youngster sitting at his parents’ table who appointed himself the representative of the Arabs of Lod and the globe (as is customary in Bnei Brak, where “Institutions of Netivei Binyamin Eliezer and the Surrounding Regions” is a yeshiva fellow with a rubber stamp, a small desk, and some free time). But in the exchange with the Sheikh it became—to my astonishment—clear that he lives entirely within that narrative (Al-Aqsa, massacre of Muslims, burning of mosques, and the like). He insisted this indeed represents the Arab public’s position, and asked me in puzzlement (or feigned innocence) whether I disagreed with what the letter said. I must say it was rather frustrating.
On the margins I must confess, with some embarrassment, that I’ve found not a few such fertile combinations on the Jewish side as well. Although I’m convinced that in Lod the Arabs started and are to blame, still the descriptions sometimes presented from the Jewish side strike me as a fantastic blend of the two aforementioned elements. For example, last Friday before noon a demonstration by Arabs in Lod was expected, and we had preparations for possible developments. As part of that, we organized to run patrols in the city. I was forwarded a report from a Lod resident describing how, during his patrol, he encountered Molotov cocktails, fireworks barrages, and whatnot—not to mention cars shattered and torched all over the area.
Since I knew what was actually happening on the ground (and I too was patrolling in those hours), and I knew the report was baseless, I replied with my own description:
Just now I got back from a two-hour patrol. Pastoral quiet; only the heat is bothersome. I asked at our command post what’s happening and was told: nothing. Pastoral silence and calm. What a bummer—no tales of heroism and not even a chance to play the victim. And besides, what a pity, because we were counting on donated food and cakes, as is customary during riots. Now we’ll have to cook and bake for Shabbat ourselves. Bummer.
You can see that in my wild imagination I experienced a totally different narrative. It later turned out the demonstration was very small, proceeded quietly, and dispersed as it came. And death shall be swallowed up forever, and the Lord shall wipe away tears from every face, and the ruins and ashes of cars the people of Israel shall raise up speedily.
People feel it’s permissible—and important—to exaggerate in their descriptions and sometimes even outright lie, in order to fight the false narrative from the other side. They apparently tell themselves that necessity is no vice (see “Holy Lies”). In light of this, beyond my principled objection to “holy lies” from every direction, my advice to you is: don’t be too quick to believe the Jewish side’s descriptions either. They too are not free of problems and of narratives laden with imagination and agenda. See more on this below.
It won’t surprise you then that these days my revulsion at the concept of narrative and the various narrativist approaches has resurfaced. But as part of my work on character traits—which I excel at so greatly—I decided nevertheless to devote a bit more thought to the matter, and to my surprise I dredged up a positive meaning of narrativity, and came to understand it’s important to distinguish it from the negative uses of this concept. So here you go—I’ll share that insight with you as well.
The Jewish Narrative
I’ll begin again with our own narrative failings. Yesterday a good friend of mine—someone deeply on the left—sent me an article (see more extensively here) describing horrific looting of Arab property carried out by Jews (mainly civilians) following the War of Independence. You’d do well to read it. True, it’s from Haaretz and therefore (also for me) suspect of a pro-Palestinian agenda. On the other hand, it quotes leaders of the Yishuv who are not suspected of leftism or of adopting the Arab narrative. Bottom line, the account looks factually credible and is hard to deny entirely. Moreover, it’s fairly clear we’re dealing with a broad phenomenon and not the actions of a negligible fringe.
My friend argued this is a small taste of why Arabs live with a deep sense regarding the “Nakba,” and the same goes for the unequal treatment they receive in Israel today. On that too you’ll mainly find descriptions in Haaretz, and so they’re suspect (also to me), but some present facts that are hard to refute.
In general, as someone opposed to narrativity, I also oppose clinging to my own narrative. I too am human, and the society I belong to is run by humans with drives, feelings, agendas, and interests, and therefore they too tend to shape history and present it as convenient for them (see above examples from these very days). In the last generation, as history has been freed a bit from the yoke of Zionist ideology and the need for self-justification (“Zionodicy”), quite a few unpleasant facts about our conduct throughout the conflict have emerged—though naturally most of us never heard about them at home or school. All this—even if true—doesn’t mean the Arabs are right and we are wicked. It also doesn’t mean we should adopt the interpretations accompanying those accounts (usually very biased and agenda-driven). But it does mean there are interest-laden, false presentations and narratives on all sides (cf. the 2021 riots above).
In my view it’s actually important to recognize that we, too, live within a narrative, in order to form a more just position. Our justness, to me, isn’t based on denying facts, and I’m still convinced we’re right even if all those facts were true (they probably aren’t). Therefore there is no ideological imperative to deny them. The holy lie truly isn’t needed here—and in my view it even harms. When it’s discovered that we lied, or when someone among us discovers he’s been lied to, we completely lose trust in everything we were taught (as happens in religious education and any closed ideological education), including the portions that are true. This is the well-known syndrome of Eve and the serpent (see Rashi to Genesis 3:3), the price tag that always attaches to holy lies. Hence there’s value in knowing other narratives and examining our own. But that’s secondary; I’m speaking about the importance of recognizing the other’s narrative even if my narrative is entirely justified.
My Comments on the Article
After reading the article about the looting I wrote my friend the following comments:
I read it—it’s truly shocking and unfamiliar. As for the interpretation, it strikes me as utter drivel from every angle, of course. The comparisons he makes are downright foolish. The conclusions about top-down policy fly in the face of the very quotations he himself brought. As for the disregard and the light treatment of the phenomenon, there are several possible explanations, all more reasonable than what he proposes (policy). The comparison of scope is truly dumb, and he himself notes this (which doesn’t stop him from making it).
As for the facts, we must remember four things:
- Those neighbors were—and certainly were perceived as—a threat to their Jewish neighbors. One must remember there weren’t Arab soldiers in uniforms distinguishable from civilians. Moreover, those civilian neighbors rioted against their Jewish neighbors in several places, and as long as they held the upper hand they systematically abused Jews (in Hebron, the Cave of the Patriarchs, the Western Wall, and more).
Some Arab civilians fled in part to enable their comrades to slaughter us and then return (and of course take Jewish property). Not to mention they initiated the war itself despite the UN partition decision, hoping to do far worse to us. Thankfully, they failed. So it’s hard for me to share their sorrow, even though I understand it. This remains true to this day.
- The likelihood of their return to their homes was near zero; so a Jewish civilian coming to such a house faced the alternative of leaving the property exposed to any passerby, or leaving it to “state looters” who in any case it’s unclear what they could have done with it.
- Many people’s economic situation was dire—also “thanks” to the Arabs. Today we’re, by and large, relatively settled and there’s an established state that takes care of us, more or less. That was not the case then, when people had existential fears for their lives, livelihoods, and property.
- The norms against looting an enemy’s property were not as clear as today—particularly when the enemy’s conduct toward us was much worse in those few places where he had the opportunity (as is also mentioned here).
My friend replied:
I skipped the interpretation because I’m less interested in it. I’m interested in feeling empathy and understanding the Arabs’ feelings and experience, from which their consciousness is formed. Of course, had all this horror ended and we moved on to repairing relations and investing in creating equality and mutual understanding, everything would be different. But relations that began like that and continued as they did clearly create pain, resentment, a sense of deprivation and alienation, etc. That’s what interests me. I’m not judging the looting Israeli—just understanding that the story differs from what I was raised on, and asking myself what that means for the Arab I’m supposed to live with.
And I answered him:
Indeed, a story different from the one we grew up on. It helps to understand their feelings. But I refuse to ignore the context. And I strongly disagree with these key sentences of yours: “Of course, had all this horror ended and we moved on to repairing relations and investing in creating equality and mutual understanding, everything would be different.”
The anger and lack of cooperation, including Arab riots, did not begin in 1948. They started the war before those acts of looting. I am entirely in favor of understanding another narrative but very much against accepting it if it is not justified.
Our negotiation continued, but after all the justifications (which I truly and sincerely believe), an important aspect of narrativity emerges. The Arabs undoubtedly live this narrative without the justifications I’ve presented here (again, in my view they’re wrong to do so). For them, this is reality as it is. That doesn’t mean I must acquiesce, since I very much believe in the importance of justice and truth and refuse to capitulate to narrativity, but it is important to recognize the other’s narrative, since this can tell me what I can expect from him.
Distinguishing Two Aspects of Narrativity
As I wrote to him at the end of the last message, we must distinguish between two demands usually included in narrativity (=to understand and to accept). The left and the right in Israel are divided regarding the Arab narrative (and narrativity in general): the right rejects the need to know the Arab narrative and to recognize it; the left demands both. But as always, both sides err. In my view there is great importance in knowing the Arabs’ narrative, even if it is certainly not right to recognize it. I wrote him that one of the left’s great mistakes in Israel—why it fails and retreats constantly—is that it doesn’t suffice with demanding we know the Arab narrative, but wants us also to recognize it, i.e., to adopt the view that there is no right and wrong here. In this it fails, and rightly so.
But this excessive demand from the left is a self-inflicted wound to their other demand, which is justified: to know the other’s narrative. I read the article, and it certainly adds to my understanding of the situation and of Arab feelings about it. I do not at all justify them, and I am far from sharing their pain, since they are eating the porridge they themselves cooked. The Arabs want to preserve the right to start a war to throw us all into the sea and loot all our property, and when they fail they also keep the right to complain that we are doing to them what they wanted to do to us, and that they are not receiving equal treatment in the democratic state we established with our own hands over their objections. That’s absurd, and naturally doesn’t arouse much empathy in me. In any case, my main goal in knowing the narrative is not empathy for the other, but grasping reality and making decisions.
Is There a Possible Way Out of the Conflict?
The answer is: I don’t know. Transfer—which to me is a warranted and moral solution (under the circumstances)—is not practical. One can dream of it, but any sensible person understands it will never be realized. Moreover, it is unlikely we will ever succeed in changing the Arabs’ narrative. Third, they are here and will probably be here with us for the long term. Given these three reasonable assumptions, we face two options: 1) try to live together despite the differences in narrative and despite our being right and them being wrong; 2) keep clashing forever and be gloriously right. I really don’t know whether there is a way to live together (I highly doubt it), but I do think it’s worth trying to move toward such a state.
Such progress is possible only if we know their narrative without recognizing it. If we understand the limits of our ability to change it—without any concession on truth and justice and our position (in that sense, this is not a leftist statement)—we can still search for possibilities of coexistence, if any exist.
Following this, I wrote him in reply:
I think that if you want to improve the chance of success (I want that too), it’s better to state it as I present it and not as it’s usually presented from the left: the injustice done to them, the narrative, the bereaved families on both sides, etc. That has no chance of succeeding—and rightly so. If [leftists] tried to advance a practical agenda and admitted there is asymmetry and that we are right, it would have a much better chance of being accepted. What can we do—people care about truth and justice.
In the course of our exchange he wrote me this:
I think—and I’m starting to write about this—that the mistake is that two issues are being mixed, and a pair of positions is assigned to each side as if they automatically go together. One issue is whether we must fix how the state treats Arabs toward greater equality so that every citizen truly has equal rights (and duties). The second issue is whether we are good or bad in how we treated Arabs, and especially whether we are “particularly” good or bad—i.e., relative to other nations or to history. It’s conventional to think that someone who is “left” holds: (a) we must give Arabs equal rights because of the poor things we did to them; (b) we are oppressors, racist, awful, and deserve to be hated by the world. And someone who is right holds: (a) that Arabs don’t deserve equal rights; (b) that we are enlightened and just and victims of the murderous environment we live in. My position is: (a) Arabs must have equal (and reciprocal) rights and duties—both because every person deserves this and because it’s the kind of state we want to build for our own good; (b) we did bad things over the years of the conflict, but I’m pretty sure we were (and still are) much less bad than other peoples in our position, including the Arabs and our harsh critics abroad. I’m still ashamed of many things we did, and I’m also proud of many things we did, and mainly I hope we’ll change what requires change so it will be more just here for everyone, because at the moment much of the power to change is in our hands.
I responded that on this message of his I can sign every word. Suddenly it turned out that although we sit at two different ends of the political spectrum, there’s no significant difference between us—at least regarding the foundation described here. It turned out we’d virtually written the same sentences to each other at the same time. The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and left with right shall lie down.
I must say his sentences surprised me. That friend is a clear leftist (very far left), and it’s not typical, in my view, to receive such an admission against interest from him. Suddenly I understood that if we forgo the left’s double demand (its clinging to narrativist postmodernism), we can reach quite full agreement, at least on the practical level. The argument over who is right becomes marginal—if it exists at all.
I think a substantial part of the left is right there (he himself attests to this and writes that there are leftists who do not feel comfortable with the positions the left usually presents—and he says this as someone belonging to the more extreme part. He himself apparently isn’t among those who feel uncomfortable there). Most of the leftists I know are like that, but they themselves don’t make this distinction—and neither does the right. As noted, the left demands both: to know the narrative and to recognize it; the right rejects both. The typical leftist blames us for our conduct toward the Arabs, but in the end most of them don’t really think it equals what the Arabs did and do to us. Only a small fringe (from within the left, which itself is already a fairly small fringe in our society) thinks so. If so, distinguishing these two planes can certainly move us toward agreement—at least on the Jewish side. I wouldn’t be surprised if it could also draw in part of the Arab public. In such a framework, they too aren’t required to abandon their positions and their narrative—only to recognize that they won’t obtain our agreement to that narrative (today they have such hope because of the “narrativist” left).[1]
Maybe it will work and maybe not. On the face of it this looks like a pipe dream, but history is full of unexpected turns. What seems to us today absurd and impossible may later turn out to be a process that happens and is realized in practice. I must note that in this matter the left actually has an advantage—at least in its modernist phase—which believed, sometimes blindly and delusionally, in the ability to change things that now seem hard to change. Conservatism isn’t inclined to that, and sometimes that very attitude prevents change. Of course this can be illusory, and sometimes what appears impossible truly is impossible—but until we try, we won’t know. I think that at least to a certain degree, trying shouldn’t cost us too dear a price—even if it succeeds. I’m not in favor of taking big risks, but it seems to me that today there’s no willingness even to try without taking a risk. There’s simply no trust, that’s all. In particular, after such attempts, at least internally we’ll know we tried and reached broad internal agreement (except for narrow fringes on right and left). That too is something.
Final Note: A Third Plane of Narrativity
Above I wrote that my aim is not to recognize their narrative, nor even to create empathy for Arabs, but mainly to know their narrative for practical purposes. Yet on the margins I should add that there may even be room for some empathy—at least toward the individual Arab and his suffering. I explained above that in my view the Arabs cook their own porridge and refuse to eat it—in other words, they bear primary blame for what has happened and is happening to them. I wrote that therefore I don’t feel great empathy even when I hear of suffering and of things done by our side that should not be done. But when I look at the private individual, I think in most cases he truly isn’t to blame for his situation. Fundamental blame lies with the collective to which he belongs and not with him personally; therefore there’s room for a bit of empathy for him as well. I’ll try now to explain this more.
In columns 244 and 372 I discussed judging a person by his own lights. My basic claim was that when we judge a person on the moral plane, we must judge him according to his view, not ours. In response, I was often asked about the boundary: does this apply also to Nazis, to ISIS, to suicide bombers, etc.? I answered that my words apply also to all those “righteous ones.” If I have an indication that we’re dealing with a person who truly and sincerely believes that the truth is with him and that this is how one ought to act morally (i.e., he is convinced Jews are persecutors of humanity who threaten its existence), then we cannot judge him as an immoral person. In the terms of the Radbaz in his responsum: he is “coerced in his mind.”[2]
This does not mean I accept such a person’s conduct as a moral path. Not at all. I am very far from relativistic or subjectivist conceptions of morality. I am convinced the Nazis acted in an evil and depraved way. But there’s a big difference between judging a person’s morality and judging the morality of his path. Nor does it mean I won’t kill Nazis to defend myself and perhaps even as part of eradicating evil. And still, the moral standing of an individual depends on his own (genuine) beliefs. Moreover, in my eyes there is collective wickedness that is independent of the wickedness of the individuals comprising that collective. A collective that fashions evil narratives (Nazism, ISIS, Communists) is a wicked collective, but the individuals who comprise it and live innocently within the prevailing narrative are not wicked, because they act according to their own view. True, in column 67 I discussed the responsibility that rests on them—but responsibility is not guilt (see also columns 34, 61, 283, and many more).
In this sense there is also essential importance to knowing the enemy’s or the other’s narrative, beyond the practical importance noted above. This does not bring me to justify his narrative (the first demand above), because justification concerns his path and the collective to which he belongs. But it may (or might?) affect the question of how much I see him as an evil person—and that itself could improve the chance of reaching some kind of status quo with him.
Note that we’ve arrived at another distinction—a third—regarding narrativity: the postmodern demand is to accept the other’s narrative as legitimate and just also on the plane of path and collective. There is a more moderate demand that is essentially to understand but not justify—that is, to understand the person by his own lights, without justifying his path. And there is an even more basic demand: to know his narrative, without understanding and without justifying. I think the third demand should be acceptable to all of us. I argued above in favor of the second demand. And the first is the mother of all sin. It must be rejected out of hand.
Of course it takes two to tango, but perhaps it’s worth a try.
[1] For some reason, this narrativity is asymmetric. Among Arabs and their left-wing supporters there is no recognition of our narrative—only of theirs (narrativity serves the approach that the weak and vanquished are always right).
[2] The obvious question (often thrown at me) is whether this isn’t always the case. Seemingly every person is convinced he’s right. The Nazi thought that’s indeed how one ought to act, and so did ISIS and every other evildoer under the sun. Well—no. A person sometimes acts in a way he himself understands is not morally proper, and desire or interest drags him to it. It’s not true to assume every person acts as he thinks he ought. That’s the mistake underlying the paradox of weakness of will, which I discussed in columns 172–173. True, we don’t always have a way to know precisely what his positions are and when he acts out of impulse and wickedness rather than ideology. This question would require me to enter into diagnostics, which is not the place here.
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A. It seems that a non-marginal part was omitted, although you clearly think it is necessary: Systematic recognition of the other's narrative is almost mandatory for anyone who wants to formulate a reasoned worldview for themselves so that they can choose their own. There seems to be no justification for the fact that people (including me) have opinions - about Judaism, about Islam, about the ontological proof, about the conflict with the Palestinians, about progressivism, about Kashmir and Belarus, about Harediism, about capitalism, and about the rest of the world and everything - while most of them are unable to give a more or less orderly account of the arguments in favor of the system they are attacking and how it interprets the world. And they live with the feeling that there are (hundreds of) millions of people around them, including intelligent people, who hold completely unfounded, distorted opinions (and if they would just give me a few minutes to sit with them one-on-one, I would show them exactly where the fish defecates). This is a firm conclusion that can indeed be reached, but one must carefully feel the weight of the burden and not fall into such a perception casually. Usually, it is more likely that such a dichotomous worldview is a symptom of ignorance, blindness, bribery, and pretentiousness. Unfortunately, in practice, I am of course as afflicted by this as anyone else.
B. Why is there responsibility for innocent individuals in the evil collective, and is it possible to have responsibility without any demand to stand up and change? This is not similar to the example you gave in the past from Russia under Stalin, where everyone sees the problem and needs to do something to some extent.
I understand from your words that responsibility serves one function: if one has to choose who will suffer the consequences, those responsible or others, then we turn the suffering over to those responsible and not to others (the troll drives to run over the others, so we turn it over to those responsible). But we are not punished on our own initiative for responsibility. Like an accidental pursuer. Is that really so?
(It is possible that even someone who ”recognizes” the other's narrative will think that since he finally holds a different narrative himself, this allows him to impose this responsibility on the holder of the different narrative. Otherwise, the fact that he himself holds the narrative loses all relevance.)
C. [Everything has been ground up and discarded, but here narratives were allowed to come to the audience as they are: In my opinion, the term ‘the moral status of a person’ is meaningless. So is the preoccupation with the metaphysical term ‘guilt’ and the quibbles over the distinction between it and ‘responsibility’. This is a substantive judgment in its own right instead of a discussion of what needs to be done to advance goals. In general, I get the impression that when you use the term ‘substantial’, then an incomprehensible or uninteresting statement is going to come. It's as if they argued against Barak that 'substantial democracy' is not democracy at all.]
A. That is true. But I do not call this recognition of another narrative, but rather familiarity with counterarguments to my narrative as part of its formulation and examination. The value in this is the contribution to my narrative. I was mainly concerned with the value of recognizing the other's narrative on one's own part.
B. Here too, everyone has a responsibility because of the demand that the collective change its narrative. This is despite the fact that each individual is not to blame. Just like with Stalin. If there is no price that I pay, then the discussion is irrelevant. It is always about when there is a price to pay and the question of who to impose it on.
B. I didn't understand. If each individual is a slave to his own opinion, then there is no claim against him, and where does the "claim against the collective" come from? Furthermore, why is the collective less a slave to its own opinion than any of the individuals.
Stalin explains it exactly. Even if each individual is insane in his mind, the entire collective has developed a false narrative and therefore bears collective responsibility for it. This responsibility is shared by all the individuals. Everyone has a component (in terms of being a member of the collective organism, not as an individual) of responsibility for their collective going down an evil or false path. If no one is responsible, then how is there still responsibility for the collective? After all, it made problematic decisions. Something in the general conduct there made this possible.
A minor sidetrack: And in your opinion, according to the postmodernists who recognize the "narrative" of the other while themselves holding a different narrative, it is impossible to justify imposing such responsibility on the other (given my opinion that my narrative is right)?
It's a bit embarrassing to discuss an empty position, but a true postmodernist is not right even in his opinion. It's just a feeling and has no validity as truth, even for him.
If so, the responsibility returns to the individual who made problematic decisions. How can one treat the collective in isolation from the individuals? If the collective has a problem, it indicates the conduct of the individuals.
This reminds me of Rabbi Zvi Yehuda's statement, "There is no choice for the whole" - I have never been able to truly understand it.
I referred to the columns that deal with this.
To the readers of the site, don't you find it a little strange that someone tries to show so many times that he is a “person of truth” and – “the truth is a candle to his feet”, and “the truth is more important than anything”?
How would you feel if a salesperson told you every few times “I'm not lying to you”, or “trust me bro I'm being honest with you”?
Personally, I would honestly suspect that he was trying to soap me up.
But leave my feelings aside. Please read Miki's writings critically and examine whether he himself is a man of truth.
Miki, if integrity is a candle to your feet, and you are against telling “narratives” etc., but only the truth, so why do you write:
A. That almost the entire country prayed for Nachshon Waxman (after all, it is clear that even if a lot of people prayed, it does not deserve to be called “almost” the entire country)?
B. Why do you always present only your ”narrative” about Bibi as a terrible prime minister whose supporters are a herd of baboons, when the actual truth is much more complex –
Bibi is far from being a perfect prime minister, but at the same time, during his time we had a very good economy, a not-so-bad health system (as it turns out), a real estate boom, a very high level of happiness among the country's residents, etc., etc., etc., etc.
Also, many of Bibi's supporters are very educated and wise people, and not just a bunch of fools, as you present them.
So why show only very specific aspects of Bibi in order to sharpen your position?
C. You yourself admit that in the past, God's will did work in reality, so why is it not possible that God's will works in our time as well? Why not even raise it as a legitimate option just because you don't see “divine intervention” ?
Why do you present things in such a partial way just to make them fit your system?
D. Why do you present the Haredi public in such an unfair (and even evil) way as a public of parasites who exploit the productive sector here in Israel?
After all, there is a lot of data that shows exactly the opposite. Let's start with the fact that there are quite a few Haredim who are already partners in the productive sector (and one could also think that secular people do not evade taxes, etc.), let's continue with the fact that the most serious masses in so many charitable organizations that donate to all of Israel are Haredim (Zaka, MDA, kidney donation, Chabad houses, etc., etc., etc.).
So it's true that there is a lot of room for improvement among the Haredim, and I also understand that you have anger towards this public, and perhaps they have hurt you in the past, but why present *your* narrative and not show a true and comprehensive picture of the situation of the Haredi public in Israel and its great contribution to all of Israel?
How would you feel if a professor who opposes widespread birthrates (for utilitarian reasons for all of humanity) were to present you as an egotistical person who does not consider others just because you chose to bring more than two children into the world?
Wouldn't you argue with him that he presents you in such a one-sided and biased manner?
E. Why did you claim that you understand that pogroms were carried out against European Jews in the 19th century because they behaved in an ugly and immoral manner towards the gentile society that existed in Eastern Europe at the time?
Do you have a shred of historical evidence regarding the ugly behavior of Eastern European Jews at that time?
And one more thing in conclusion, Miki,
I took a look at your videos on YouTube this week. Lesson 16 of “Conceptual Analysis” received 35 views (and I am one of them), lesson 46 of Tractate Shabbat received only 6 views.
Have you ever wondered why this is so?
Have you ever wondered why there is no shortage of other rabbis who are much less intelligent than you and also know much less about Torah than you, who attract a wider audience than you and by serious orders of magnitude?
*All the things I have written here are only things in which Miki himself clearly errs in the truth (and there are others).
Of course, apart from the matter of presenting partial truth, Miki's writings also contain quite a few nonsense and all sorts of logical errors, etc.
But more on that on another occasion.
Ehud
I noticed that in the Torah core of Lod, there is a man with an ultra-Orthodox appearance, with a black kippah and a long beard. It seems to me that the Arabs of Lod were afraid that this ultra-Orthodox-looking man might infect them with the Corona virus, what's more, according to rumors, this man studied for several years in Bnei Brak, and therefore the Arabs of Lod found it appropriate to respond to the ultra-Orthodox invader the same way the Russians and Ukrainians in Eastern Europe responded to the men with black beauties and long beards of their time 🙂
With greetings, N.A. Ratib
In line 4
… To the black-hooded people…
Ehud, I think you are right that the site is full of Rabbi Michi's "narrative". But there is a kosher narrative and it is the narrative of wisdom and not understanding, that is, my initial perception of the matter. A person can, and so can Rabbi Michi, report on how a certain thing is perceived in his thinking, while regarding the implications - the understanding stage, it does not depend on each and every person but objectively - a straightforward logical equation that can certainly be argued about. The narrative that Rabbi Michi is misleading is of the second type - how the Arabs conclude incorrect things from facts. Or how they present facts that are objectively incorrect. (I agree that sometimes Rabbi Michi presents things as if they were facts without providing evidence for his words even though they are related to the understanding stage. See Benjamin Netanyahu's entry)
In the margins of the words I say: Perhaps you have enlightened us on the issue: We should examine whether the Arab narrative is different only in the understanding stage or perhaps in the Arabs' worldview – There is a difference between them and us in their level of wisdom, and even then they are right in these things according to their own view. But in the main, it is clear to me that Rabbi Michi is right and the bulk of their narrative is built on incorrect facts and logical fallacies.
Hello Nadav,
Michi may be right about the Arab narratives (or any other narrative).
But from what I understand from your words, you pretty much agree with me that Michi is also wrong in presenting the “understanding narrative”.
I don't understand how anyone can disagree that Michi presents the Haredim or Bibi in such a distorted way.
And what's even more shocking is that Michi is trying to sell himself as a man of truth.
This is ridiculous.
Is this more shocking or more ridiculous?
To Ehud, just a comment on your summary. You know, today most people are either lazy or don't have the time/energy to get smart and delve into all sorts of issues (religious or secular), and therefore a good moral lesson is enough for them than a lesson in depth. They like something that warms them up more than something that makes them wait. If you exercise your intellectual honesty on this point, thank you for telling me that I'm right. Best regards,
In a narrative there is a mixture of 2 elements
1. The factuality of what happened, something that a camera can photograph, such as that at a certain time someone went from a certain place to a certain place.
2. The mental element, attributing mental causes to events.
The factual element can be examined in terms of truth and falsehood, happened or did not happen.
The mental element requires both the Holy Spirit and a psychological theory of the mind, and if we are dealing with mental solutions, a prophecy is also required for this.
Why moral transfer??
It is more moral than the alternatives of whispering embers from which flames of war erupt every few years.
The transfer is moral when done to Jews, especially if they are settlers or members of religious Zionism, but it is immoral when done to Arabs.
And there are two reasons for this: one is moral. The Arabs have been residents of the land for generations. Even those who arrived during the Mandate (like the Juarish tribe), are ‘first come, first served’ and they are like the inhabitants of the land. On the other hand, the Jews are colonial invaders, as it is written: ‘You are colonialists who have conquered’ 🙂
And the main reason is practical. The Arabs enjoy the support of the Western world, being a ‘weakened population’, while the Jews are the people of the West, responsible and Arabs to correct all the injustices done by the colonial imperialists, and therefore the world does not support them, and therefore we prefer to identify with the ’weakened’, being the ‘strong side’ 🙂
With greetings, Yizhar Smolensky, Knight of Morality and Justice
People change their place of residence. Is there a moral problem with that?
In other words, transfer is not moral, but rather the benefit of the transfer outweighs the harm if it is avoided. It follows that transfer is morally correct only if there is no possibility of a third solution.
First of all, thank you very much, it was interesting and interesting.
I have a question about the attitude towards a moral or immoral person, from what I understood the Rabbi said that even if a person did bad things, as long as he is not inclined by his (wrong) ideology because of his passions and desires, he is not considered immoral.
My question is about a person who thinks that there is no such thing as good and bad or morality and that it is okay to do whatever you want (which might even have been my attitude if I did not believe in God), should we also say that he is morally okay about him? (Not the method, which of course is not, but him as a person)
Is such a person considered “anus” Even though he could have done the most horrible things imaginable? (Let's say if Hitler was like that...)
It's hard for me to think that Hitler could have been just as moral as me or more so, that's no reason to say it's not true, but even intellectually it's a bit difficult for me and I'm interested in whether this is the Rabbi's approach...
First note: Not necessarily the passions and desires. Sometimes he is simply wrong. On the contrary, if it is because of passions and desires, then he actually has a certain guilt of surrendering or not overcoming the passions and desires.
If the person really thinks that there is no such thing, then he is again not guilty. The same is true regarding faith. He is a complete rascal, regardless of the horrors of his actions. Yes, including Hitler. I wrote this in a column.
And a question for the author of the post –
Is an Arab who believes in the Palestinian narrative that the Zionists are oppressive occupiers that it is my duty as a Muslim to harm them indiscriminately, but he instinctively recoils from harming women and children. Would this Arab be considered ’immoral’ because he does not implement the commandments of his narrative?
Best regards, Na”a Ratib
I don't see what is immoral about such a person. He is wrong in calculation but right in intuition. Every person reaches his conclusions by combining these two (calculation and intuition). What determines is the bottom line of what he thinks (which his actions reflect).
Beautiful! It is important to understand the opposing side even without agreeing with it and for the reasons described here in Toto”d
I wrote similar things on my Facebook page, backed up by quotes from personalities who dedicated their lives to the establishment of the state and its preservation:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=4601099456572533&id=100000175711580
Why just get to know and acknowledge the enemy's narrative? Why rule out in advance the possibility of adopting the enemy's narrative once you have come to know it?
Very true.
In my humble opinion, in any case where a person wants to express an opinion on a particular subject, let alone if he wants to offer practical suggestions, he should draw as much as possible to know all the facts related to the subject. Therefore, when we come to learn about a certain phase in the Jewish-Palestinian conflict called the "War of Liberation/Nakba", we should learn about the looting of Arab property by Jews - because it is part of the set of facts, regardless of justification and morality (or lack thereof).
Omission for any reason of some of the facts harms the ability to learn in any field.
What you called "context" consists, in my opinion, of two parts - one is "additional facts" (Arabs believed that they would return, Jews believed that Arabs would not return) and this is an objective matter, and the second is justification/personal interpretation, and this certainly depends (or at least is influenced) by the fabric of beliefs and opinions of the specific person.
In "narrative" I think these two things are mixed up – both playing with the facts surrounding the main event (omitting some of them or overemphasizing other parts) and also expressing a personal interpretation (emotional, moral, etc.).
In my opinion, it is very important to distinguish between the two – Regarding inaccuracies in facts, one must not agree/encourage/justify/acknowledge them, but only correct the ignorance. And regarding emotional/moral interpretation – It is definitely worth getting to know it, and regarding the winners or not, it is already a personal matter (which depends of course on whether I hold the same moral/emotional fabric or not).
I do not think that deepening the discussion in the style of "who started it" or "who is to blame" will contribute to the solution – The parties should agree to disagree on the matter and move forward in a way that benefits the people.
And regarding solutions to the conflict at this stage – It is quite clear that the vast majority of the Jewish population in Israel agrees with the common denominator that you and your leftist friend presented. I am less clear whether the majority of Israeli Arabs agree (not with our narrative of course, but with a practical course of action), but it is certainly worth trying to move towards equalizing civil rights. There are indeed almost no dangers in this and there is moral justification.
And what else seems to me (and I may be wrong) that there is no agreement on this from the majority of the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza, and those among them who do agree will never admit it publicly for fear of their lives. Therefore, I have no hope for a visible solution to this aspect of the conflict.