Two ultra-Orthodox teenagers finished first and second in Israel in accounting studies

And I have a relative who was considered the pinnacle of the yeshiva in terms of his ability to "learn," and because of the occasional cliffhanger and a hint of sanity, he considered retiring to a life of different activities. In the various courses and preparatory schools for teaching professions, which require basic knowledge of secular professions, he felt - according to his own words - that he did not understand a word of what was being said, dropped out, and continued to flow with everyone else in the model of the kollel, marrying children off in the service of the "Gamcham" and "Shonor", etc., and everything else is written in the registers of the community of the "Etznikim" who will die and not be drafted.

Point 4 is an expression of the first Michai rules, when comparing companies, you have to compare top to top and bottom to bottom. Similarly, I once saw someone who claimed that there is no discrimination against Sephardim in Israel because although there are fewer Sephardim in every rank (academic and otherwise), at every rank they earn on average more than their colleagues. Separate from the claim itself, the argument is dubious because an alternative explanation is that there is a shift in levels. I also have the same impression regarding Palestinian colleagues who are citizens of Israel. In the army, a captain who was appointed head of a section (usually the rank of major) was better than the other section heads. Etc.

And we haven't even talked about the scholarships and related academic assistance that are usually not given to non-Haredi students.

That's it. You can continue writing in a loyal tone.

It is not true that "there is not the slightest connection between accounting and mathematics."

CPAs do indeed deal almost exclusively with calculations (and laws), but woe to the CPA who does not understand accounting and statistics at the basic mathematical level.

So it's true that to become a CPA you don't have to pass an IPA at the Technion or MIT, and you don't have to understand in depth, for example, the laws of limits, and yet to say that there is no connection to mathematics is not true.

Woe to the CPA who doesn't understand the law, completely. All the chamber's opinions are filled with boundary calculations.

Yes, at the high school level.

I'm kidding. CPAs really do take a course in accounting, but it's mainly to understand certain models in economics (marginal products, etc.). It has no use in classic accounting work.

This doesn't diminish the difficulty of the study, accounting is one of the most difficult degrees in my opinion outside of the exact sciences. But the difficulty lies elsewhere, not in mathematics.

Father, I wrote basic level math.
I didn't write that you need to complete an IT course at the Technion. A CPA knows math at a higher level than a high school student (in overlapping subjects).

You're trying to ridicule what I write, but you're welcome to check the mathematical knowledge of an average person who just finished their exams, and see that they know basic math (beyond high school), and not just arithmetic.

And one more thing – it is better to be a genius who knows the material well, than to be a "mathematician" who graduated from a mediocre university, at best (mediocre = Bar Ilan, Ben Gurion, and Ariel, this is according to objective data) with a degree in mathematics with an average of 60+, and even up to 70, which was also mainly achieved because of factors, submitting papers, elective courses that were not particularly complicated, money spent on private tutors, many hours of memorizing formulas (without really understanding them), and a lot of crying in front of the lecturers.

Truly great "mathematicians".

And as for "mathematicians" who have crossed the 70s (even among them there is no shortage of those who mainly memorized a lot of formulas instead of understanding) - one might think that they are at least talking about Gauss, Turing, or Newton... they really are not.

Glimpses Glimpses

Ruach, I responded solely to the words "Woe to the CPA who doesn't understand (basic) accounting." That's simply not true - there is no connection between accounting work and accounting. All concepts of "better" don't speak to me, certainly not when they are based on grades or an educational institution. It's better to study a profession that gives the person practicing it the right balance between income and pleasure. That's all.

My friend took career counseling tests. They told him you're good at math and average at math. Go study accounting. Study accounting and economics at university. After that, he said he did excellent in all the accounting courses and mediocre in the economics math courses.

My father, CPA is a title for the profession. The discussion here was about the certification exams, and in any case, almost everyone who takes the certification exams has previously completed a degree in economics that includes courses with basic mathematics (beyond high school level) – for example, mathematics for economists, statistics, econometrics, pricing, etc. So apparently accountants also know basic mathematics when they take the certification exams.

Many accountants (with formal certification) do not just deal with accounting, but also serve as economists, and there are those who are accountants in title, but in practice are economists.
They know how to do integration (in the mathematical sense), statistics, combinatorics. They know how to read graphs, they know how to measure rates of change and slopes, and more.
And to the best of my knowledge, even accountants who only deal with accounting know how to do these operations (and those who really haven't touched them in years might do a quick refresh on Google).

I don't know exactly what the bar exams test, but I have almost no doubt that the math required there is about high school level. I know people who have passed and that's what they know. As for the academic courses that are on the way, there is indeed also math for economists, etc., not a big deal at all, but it's not the bar exams. I would venture to bet, as someone who used to teach in Kiryat Ono, that the local graduates, even those who pass the bar exams, know about 4 units of high school math, at most. If that's what you call math, good for you. And if excelling in it indicates intellectual abilities, especially scientific ones, good for you again.
Really unnecessary discussion.

Miki, as I wrote, my basic assumption is that almost all those who pass the bar exam have previously taken courses in mathematics for economists, etc., and I don't entirely know what these courses are like in colleges, but as for universities, I estimate that it is beyond the high school level of 4-5 units, you can see this in the tests online.
Besides, admission to economics studies requires a higher psychometric score (in universities) than mathematics and physics studies. This is of course not because of intellectual abilities, but more because of demand. There is no doubt that those who are accepted to study economics at university are definitely considered a top student.

In any case, there is no obligation to study economics together with accounting, so even if some study it, it doesn't say anything about these two.

I happen to be an accountant, and I happen to be good friends with the two guys I studied with 🙂
I don't know how much connection there is between mathematics in the conventional sense of the field and accounting. In general, if you know addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, you are organized computationally (and there is Excel for that too). Financial accounting (the field on which the exam is held and is defined as the most difficult test in the field) is basically problem solving. You learn the international standards that give you a set of rules. On the test, you receive an event and are supposed to answer according to the set of rules you learned about the appropriate accounting treatment. The test is indeed not easy and requires a fairly broad understanding of accounting rules. As a personal testimony, we did not study any hedvah at all, and the mathematics we did study was at a terribly low level, even less than 3 units in high school in my opinion (but again, because it is not really necessary for the field). But to be fair, both guys are really talented and studied terribly hard, and did not receive any special benefits or concessions (not even extra time :)).

Easy fix: We learned Hadvah, but at a completely basic level.