More about choice and providence

Thanks, and sorry for the expression 🙂

I still want to ask:
So according to the Rabbi, the usual interpretation of the miracle of Elisha and the bears (that God brought bears out of the forest to devour the children) is equivalent to the interpretation that there were "no bears and no forest" and suddenly everything was created?

I didn't understand the question. Are you going to ask whether God brought the bears out or did they come out on their own?
In biblical times, there was a different leadership. Then there was prophecy and miracles, so it is certainly possible that God was involved in reality then.

I ask about the time of the Bible, is there any point in “minorizing” miracles. I meant the Gemara in Sota 7, “Rav and Shmuel: One said a miracle and one said a miracle within a miracle. Whoever said a miracle – the forest was full of bears, not a miracle, but a miracle within a miracle –
Neither the forest was full of bears, nor were the bears full of bears.
The Rabbi explained that in fact, even causing bears (who exist) to come out of the forest (which exists) is a miracle against the laws of nature (say, some force fields were created in the brains of the bears so that they came out). So seemingly there is no difference between such a miracle and a miracle that creates bears and forests.
(Apparently, the only difference is that in the first scenario we are less likely to notice the miracle).

The analogy is wrong somewhere, but I'm not sure where.

And one last question really:

“One does not shout or beg on it (=on Shabbat) for any hardship, except for the hardship of food, which is shouted about with the mouth on Shabbat and not with the shofar. Likewise, a city surrounded by a sea or a river, and a ship that is at sea, and even an individual who is being persecuted because of a sea or a storm or an evil spirit, shout and beg with supplications on Shabbat.” (O”H, Rafah, section 9)

Today, when God does not intervene, then this halakha is null and void, right? Or is the permission to shout not related to the protection of life?

As I wrote, during the time of the prophets, there was God’s involvement in the world and I see no reason to exclude it. And in general, there is no point in excluding or including it. The question is what is the truth. The question in the debate there is whether there was a more or less visible miracle, and this is an interpretive question. I am not sure that there is an a priori agenda here to include or exclude visible involvement. The debate is what was there.

In my opinion, God’s involvement is also possible in exceptional cases (how can one determine that there is no involvement at all?! What I argued is only about the ongoing conduct of the world). Therefore, it is not clear to me that one should not pray for this. What I do think is that one should only do so in truly exceptional cases (when there is no natural solution and when the distress is severe).