Pantheism

asked 9 years ago

Hello Rabbi,
The rabbi used a parable for pantheism – that although the human body is composed of many atoms, the whole is greater than the individual.
And therefore it has an independent entity.
But all of the above understanding is correct in a certain respect, for as soon as we pass through an atom by atom in the human body, we destroy it.
In the end, there will be no “rule” left.
So the same thing can be said about pantheism, right? If we go through every atom or energy in the world, and ask whether it comes from the necessity of reality or not.
And we will discover that everything is created (based on inference from experience), so the world will also fall apart, right?

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מיכי Staff answered 9 years ago

Have a good week. I used this parable to suggest a better definition of pantheism, but in conclusion I rejected it. What you describe is indeed another angle to the claim that negates pantheism and shows it to be empty: either there really is something more beyond the material totality or you said nothing beyond material atheism. Even in the material totality of the human body, some see the soul as something else, and others suggest seeing it as the material totality itself. Although there it is possible to think that if the body is complete, the soul is also complete (because it is not a necessity of reality), but with respect to God, this is of course less likely.

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ישי replied 9 years ago

Thanks for the quick response!

Does the Rabbi know of any other evidence against pantheism?

Also, is it correct to say that to some extent pantheism is based on a perception of the primacy of the world.
After all, a simple explanation is to say that a body does not create itself but at least upgrades itself.

In fact, it can be said that the Big Bang completely destroyed the above theory.

מיכי Staff replied 9 years ago

As I wrote, pantheism is nothing but atheism in disguise and therefore all evidence against atheism or for the existence of God is evidence against it.
The claim that a body does not create itself is the physico-theological proof that there is a Creator in the world (see the third notebook on the site here). And since pantheism is nothing but atheism, then this is indeed evidence against it.

ישי replied 9 years ago

Hello Rabbi.
I mean the Rabbi's words in the argument
substantial pantheism.
Not atheistic material pantheism.

מיכי Staff replied 9 years ago

I didn't understand. If you say there is something else besides matter in the universe, then it is God. And if there is nothing else, then eliminating all matter will eliminate everything (as you wrote). What else is there here that I missed?

ישי replied 9 years ago

I mean the God of the Pathaizim is not the God of creation.
He is a rather limited God who is subject to the laws of nature, etc.
Not a God who created nature.

I ask what evidence is there against him? Only in the style of a body not creating itself. + The understanding that the universe was created and not pre-existent?

מיכי Staff replied 9 years ago

We go back and forth. Who is the God of pantheism? Is there such a thing beyond nature? Please define it for me and then we can think of arguments for and against its existence.