Fire in Halacha
Peace be upon the Grand Master Shlita.
What is fire in Halacha? If you say flames, then electricity is not a flame. If you say anything that is capable of causing flames, then why is it permissible to heat with a hot iron? If you say anything hot, the question again arises about the sun?
You remind me of a story that Richard Feynman tells in one of his religious books (I think you are surely joking Mr. Feynman) about yeshiva students who wanted to ask him something. He was happy that these ignorant people were finally interested in science and invited them to his house. In the elevator he asked Ez what they were talking about and they told him they wanted to find out if electricity was fire. He didn’t understand the question, after all, fire is something chemical and electricity is physical. They explained to him that it was about Shabbat laws, and then he threw Ez down all the stairs (he realized that they were not interested in science but only as a tool for halakhah). Well, it’s just an association.
To your question, I don’t think there is any dependence here on a scientific definition but rather on the observation of humans (householders). A filament certainly looks like something that is burning and not just hot. And really, if it is just hot, then there is no need to talk about fire here (for example, in electronic devices and anything that does not contain a filament).
It is true that heating with a hot plate (itself, not the history of the hot plate), should be discussed, since it also burns. From the perspective of the Sages, this is not considered heating with fire. Ostensibly, this is because of the distance or they thought that the sun is not fire. It is true that according to this, today there is room to discuss whether to also prohibit cooking with a hot plate because of our different scientific understanding. It is true that for most commentators (following Rashi), cooking with a hot plate is not prohibited because there is no way to cook with it and not because the hot plate is not fire, and then it seems that there is no room to change.
There is a Midrash Tanchuma: Lest you say that the Kadva needs light like flesh and blood, and the sun that the Holy One gave him is from the history of the fire above.
I don't know if it is possible to get anything precise from this about the perception of the sun at that time.
There is an advertisement by Chef Haim Cohen who makes pizza from dough and sauce and toppings and cheese and then ”cooks”it in the car for half an hour without electricity and without fire and without oven and without gas. Just there in the middle of the day. Is that permissible? On Shabbat?
There is a box like this that has foil wrappings and regular glass on top and inside the box you put a pot or plate of food, which absorbs sunlight and cooks and heats the food in the box, is that permissible on Shabbat?
What do we learn from the fact that it says “In all your settlements you shall not kindle a fire” He could have just written ”You shall not kindle a fire on Shabbat and that's it.
Could I have learned that if I did not kindle a fire and found a fire then I am allowed to use it?
Or
If I am not in my settlements but in a gentile's house on Shabbat then I am allowed to kindle a fire on Shabbat to cook food? Or just to heat it?
If we know from the work of the Tabernacle that it is forbidden to light a fire, why did the Torah make mentions of extinguishing a fire on Shabbat? Isn't this unnecessary?
Suppose I have an empty glass outside and it rains on Shabbat. Am I allowed to drink from it?
Is it permissible to sunbathe on Shabbat like this, sitting exposed in the sun? Under what conditions?
Moshe Shalom.
If you would like to study the laws of cooking in the light on Shabbat, go to any Halacha book. This is not the place. If you have a specific question (preferably not a simple informative question), you can post it here.
Stupid nonsense is always accepted as the words of the ancestors. But the ancestors did not see an electric light bulb and indeed for them all light was fire. Communication was a dove for them. And the Earth, the center of the universe. Should they argue about things that are empty today? Respect for the ancestors. Contempt for their pretending descendants.
How exactly is this related to the topic?
I came across this question by chance, and the book was lying out of the corner of my eye on the edge of the shelf. I said, "Simna Milta" and "Mah’ ezith habeb", etc., and for the sake of holiness, I will quote before the congregation of the law the story in its own language (in the book translated into Hebrew) in the secret of blind typing. And indeed, this book is mostly the words of the hab'i and M'm Milta Elaita Da'it Bhu Darshinan Lehu in Pirka. And even these words are mixed with water.
(You must be joking, Mr. Feynman. Pages 273-274)
One day two or three young rabbis came to me and said, "We understand that we cannot learn to be rabbis in the modern world without knowing something about science, so we would like to ask you a few questions."
Of course, there are thousands of places where you can learn about science, and Columbia University was really close by, but I wanted to know what kind of questions they were interested in.
They said, “Well, for example, is electricity fire?”
“No,” I said, “But… what's the problem?”
They said, “The Talmud says that it is forbidden to light a fire on Shabbat, so our question is, can we use electrical appliances on Shabbat?”
I was shocked. They were not interested in science at all! The only way science could affect their lives was if it provided them with a way to interpret the Talmud better! They were not interested in the external world, in natural phenomena; they were only interested in settling some question that the Talmud raised.
[[[Skip. Here is a passage where Feynman tried to wonder about the idea of a ‘Sabbath Gentile’ By virtue of an ethical argument that you cannot blame someone else for doing something you are not allowed to do, and tells that the students of the rabbinate there “started to twist, turn, twist – I don't remember how – and they broke free! I thought I had come up with an original idea – where! They argued about it in the Talmud for generations! So they easily eliminated me – they got away with it without any problems”]]]
In the end I tried to assure the students of the rabbinate that the electric spark that worries them when they press the elevator buttons is not fire. I said, “Electricity is *not* fire. It is not a chemical process, like fire.”
“Really?” they said.
“Of course, there is electricity between the *atoms* of fire.”
“Aha!” they said.
“And in every *other* phenomenon that occurs in the world.”
I even suggested a practical solution to eliminate the spark. “If that's what worries you, you can put a capacitor in parallel with the switch, so that the electricity can flow and stop without any spark whatsoever - anywhere.” But for some reason, they didn't like that idea either.
It was really disappointing. Here they are, slowly progressing through life, just to interpret the Talmud better. Imagine! In this modern era, people study in order to go out into society *and* do something - to become rabbis - and the only reason they think science can be interesting is because their old provincial problems from the Middle Ages have become a little more complicated because of some new phenomena.
And inspired by the holiday, I will mention an article that was a slander in the mouth of one of my professors, “Any physics student who has not read Feynman's three lecture books has not fulfilled his duty”. And indeed, the recent verdict is that nature has changed and it is possible to read David Morin's books as well, and the main thing is both in law and in practice.
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