LB Dimensions

This means that in general we do not know exactly what the standards we received at Sinai are????

In my book on general and specific standards (the second in the Talmudic Logic series), I detailed the process of formation of the standards of the sermon and explained that it is a dynamic system. Moses did not know any of the standards of the sermon, as they were conceptualized much later than him. See also the beginning of the books of the Spirit of Law.

So perhaps it can be explained that Moses received from Sinai the very insight that the Torah can and should be preached, and the methods of preaching developed later.

I explained there that I don't think that's the case. He accepted the sermon as a language, but the rules that make it understandable evolved over time.

Harash as a language… What does this mean? I can understand that it is a reasonable measure, but did he know that using two identical words, a similar law can be learned (equal derivation) or that there is no plural after plural except for a few, etc.????
I would be happy if you could expand a little

Deresh as a language means without laws.
I disagree with this because if Moshe did not know the laws - he could not have deresh the Torah and not teach the children of Israel anything because without tools how could he explain the obscure Torah? Not to mention that he was a judge and adjudicated laws for all the children of Israel.

What does the Rabbi mean by “deresh”?

On the contrary, the rule is a logical measure and therefore is not related to language. Language has rules, and there is no need for them to be logical. It is an agreement. And yet, children learn to speak the language without being taught the rules. On the other hand, adults who come to another country study in an ulpan through rules, and only in this way do they internalize the ability to use the language. The sermon is also a type of language in which we approach the Bible. Moses learned it from God, the Holy One, just as a child learns a language from his parents and his environment. Slowly, forgetfulness and lack of proficiency in the language began, and then rules began to form. The rules are an approximation to the language and allow those who have no intuition about it to use it. Just like in an ulpan. For details, see the above-mentioned book.

So the mechanism is not good if they slowly forgot and if so, what was forbidden to write in the Toshveh? Rules? Language? Or what?
Wait, if he accepted the Toshveh as language, could the Rabbi demonstrate how Moses received the Sukkah movement from the Creator in his opinion?

It seems to me that the Rabbi is combining grammatical rules with the rules of the virtues of learning, one can explain and separate them.

From what I understand from the rabbi, the rules (?) are more important than the language in which Moses received the Toshchewa from Sinai, because from the rules comes every mitzvah with certainty. So why didn’t we receive the rules in the first place? Moses the prophet was not a little boy learning a language from his parents and was proficient in the Hebrew language when he received the Torah.
From Moses to Moses, no one rose up like Moses! Except for Rabbi Akiva, of course.

Grammar rules are just an example of language rules. Some of the laws of Sukkah are written in the LBM, and what is learned in the midrash (such as the number of pages) is read from the verse in the language of the sermon (which counts how many times a tractate is written).
The rules are no more important than the language and no less important. The rules are another description of the language. Just as in spoken language the rules describe how to speak. And just as in language one does not teach according to the rules, so too did Moshe learn the sermon as a language. For further details, see the books I referenced.

When there was only language (in the time of Moses), was there still the possibility of different interpretations and different demand options...or did it only begin when the rules were formulated?

I suppose it always has been, but in natural language everything seems obvious and there is less ambiguity. When you need rules, the disputes begin.

Could it be that the transition from language to rules was intentional (by God) so that there would be more possibilities of understanding and therefore more halachic possibilities, and thus actually fulfill the essence of the Toshbin, namely the implementation of Torah ideas in a changing reality?
And so it is also possible to explain relatively new ways of learning (perhaps Brisk) that quite "require" the words of the ancients (the innovations of the G-d on Maimonides)

I understood everything, only your comment, Your Honor, was missing on the issue of virtues, which is the subject of the discussion here.
You confused me when you talked about the “sermons” because from what I remember you said that perhaps the sermons and legends are not really from Sinai, and I know that there are indeed distorted sermons written in Rashi sometimes.
To summarize, from what you said with your meticulousness, what can I conclude that the rules of grammar were passed on to Moses at Sinai or not?

Without a good example, I really have a hard time, forgive me, I always like examples, let's say the Sukkah and examples of tefillin that were passed on to Moses at Sinai, which were black in color, period, now, how was it passed on to him, how is the color made and all the details of the details? Also at Sinai?
(Can the Rabbi remind me) – What is the problem that it was forbidden to write it down, it is full of details and laws).

How did Moses convey the Torah's meaning and corrections to Joshua? Wait - did he receive it at Sinai, or just the writing as his language (as you define it). [And without the Gentiles and without anything, just the writing as his language].

Avi,
I don't know. The explanation for why this happened is simple, as I described. Was it planned in advance? Maybe. The same goes for Brisk. But I don't understand why it's important for you to check whether it's planned or not. It seems really meaningless to me.

Moshe,
The sermons here are halakhic sermons and not mythological midrashim. The sermon is a language and Moshe learned it at Sinai like a child learns a language from his parents. Without rules. The rules are a late product of those who lost intuition and built rules to help them speak the language.
I don't know what example you want. I don't have an example because I wasn't with Moshe at Mount Sinai. I explained the process as best I could as I understand it.
The color and details of the tefillin are the LBM, and it may have been transmitted as it is. I'm talking about sermons (=halakhic midrashim) here and not the LBM.
I have no idea how Moshe transferred the score and the tagin, if they were there at all. As is known, the script changed and went through various incarnations.
If there were details that required recording, they recorded them. These are the “Secret Scrolls” mentioned in the ”S.

Rabbi. You have brought wonderful and mind-expanding things, and it only tempts me to delve deeper into the questions and I unfortunately do not see the end.

My main question right now is: Moses received as his language, why did he not pass on as his language? Or maybe there was no point in our day for rules as he did not need them in order to understand the words of the Lord.

Because of the holiness of the Torah, I must ask, how did the Mishnah change the writing in the Torah and why does the writing have holiness in our day, can we say that the Torah in the language also has holiness? From the life of the name of the Lord in the water in the case of the deviated one, it was in a different script, why is it forbidden to erase the Hebrew (Assyrian) script that we have?

And where are the secret scrolls now? How many of them were there and how were they preserved? What is the problem that it was forbidden to write it down freely, it is full of details and laws. Why hide it and from whom?).

Father, could it be that the transition from language to rules was intentional (by God) so that there would be more possibilities of understanding and therefore more halachic possibilities and thus actually fulfill the essence of the Toshba, namely the implementation of the ideas of the Torah in a changing reality.
My answer: In my opinion, first we will understand why we did not accept the Torah as its language, like Moses, and then give ideas as to why this happened?
In any case, I do not see your words because the Creator wants the observance of the commandments, no matter who the teachers of halachic law are, and the Toshba has the authority anyway to implement ideas according to the developing and required innovation.. Do you agree?

Moses passed the language on as a language (check like all parents to their children). But over the generations our intuition weakened and so we created rules.
Your question about changing the script has already been asked by many. It is common to say that the Torah was given in Assyrian and then changed and returned to the original. I doubt this, but anyone who sees holiness in any label will likely need an explanation of this kind.
After the Tosheva was written by a rabbi, I assume that the Megilot Satyrs were abolished. They were already redundant. There was a prohibition on writing, and I assume that this was so that things would not be fixed but would remain flexible and free to the decision of the sages of every generation and place. This is how the prohibition on writing the Tosheva was explained. The Megilot were hidden so that what was written would only serve the writer as an aid to memory and would not become a sacred book (like the Gemara and Mishnah today).

Who exactly came up with the rules? How can we be sure that the rules are reliable - and how are we supposed to know when not to use the rules? (All rules should have rules that explain how to use them).
Who signed the rules at the end of the process!
Was their signing before the signing of the Mishnah Talmud?
The second problem with the rules - that they only help to make an understanding from X to Y, but they do not have the ability to ”translate” difficult words in the Torah, what do you do in such a case?
So that their lack is magnified by the lack of intuition.
And how did God not foresee this whole transition from the Toshva”f as a language to the transition to the rules? Time to do it ’ You violated your Torah, and what can we say here? Where is the permission to move to the rules? There is no hint of this, anything?

One last thing, the oath (as Moses's) was only on the Pentateuch, right?

To my father and Moshe

I will only note that the discussion itself regarding the question of whether God directed the process of transition from a child's language to a language with rules in this way, itself undergoes such a process. In other words, the process of the development of rules from natural language is certainly not a coincidence, but is actually part of the process of mental maturation of the Jewish people in particular and the rest of the world in general, and is a process of transition from dogmatic thinking to analytical thinking (in the language of the Rabbi in the book Two Carts – transition from childhood to adolescence, and in the language of Kabbalah, it is a transition from right to left – transition from the pillar of kindness to the pillar of judgment). This state of rules is not the final state (which is the mature state – synthetic thinking, the pillar of mercy, the middle) but only the stage of adolescence. In the final stage, we will also be able to intuitively demand sermons and understand what rules are involved in the matter. We will know what to do and why it should be done (why it works or Right)

Now we need to ask whether the process of maturation, which is a universal process in all areas of matter (physiological maturation of animals) and spirit - is it itself intentional by God? This is actually a question of creation with deliberate intention versus evolution. The perception that God does things consciously like a craftsman is the childish perception. The perception that things happen by themselves (but not by intention, they happen by chance) without deliberate intention (or even without God's awareness) is more mature but not yet completely - a boyish perception. You can already guess for yourself what the final, mature answer will be.

Among us, I am one of those who do not guess or speculate, and you can understand what else I am not.

You have come just in time, I am one of those who do not try to understand who God is - it is enough for me that I understand that if He did not exist, I would not exist.

Everything is not by chance, and because of this, there must be some hint from a verse, and our wisdom is to find it.

For I am the Lord, I have not changed; and you, sons of Jacob, have not perished.

What advantage is there for the maker, that he labors? I have seen the matter that God has given to the sons of men to be exercised with. Oh, everything He has made, beautiful in its time; He has also set the world in their hearts, so that man will never find out the work that God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better in them than to rejoice and to do good during one's life. 13 And also that every man should eat and drink and see good in all his labor, it is the gift of God. I know that whatever he does,

There is no guarantee that the rules are accurate, but that is what they are. There is no guarantee that we are right either without rules or with them. Interpretation is human and therefore prone to error.
The rules have not been signed, and the process continues all the time. The term “rules” can also express word interpretations. In any case, it is clear that word interpretations were also accepted there.

It seems to me that the discussion here has strayed a bit from the point……. Rabbi Miki's words about language are certainly interesting, but I can't actually recreate how it happened……The theory is interesting, but I'm not really convinced……I'm more inclined to think that the idea of dynamic halakha was given from the beginning and its framework was defined and shaped over the generations……