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Kiddushin for the halflings and lessons from the rabbi…

שו”תCategory: Talmudic studyKiddushin for the halflings and lessons from the rabbi…
asked 6 years ago

Peace and blessings,
I wanted to know a few things:
A. In the Gemara on Kiddushin 7. Rava said that consecrating a woman to half of her husband is not beneficial, but a man who consecrates his half is beneficial. Abaye makes this difficult, and Rava seems to be telling him – that’s not what I meant, but that regarding a man one can say this and regarding a woman not so (the Rashba and the Ravada disagreed there in understanding Rava’s words). But M. Abaye understood in a certain way that Rava was talking about consecrating a woman to half of her husband, and I ask myself? What is the point of saying this? How can one think about consecrating a woman to half of her husband? It sounds completely puzzling.
on. Are there recorded lessons from the rabbi on tractates? I’ve only seen them from places. I’d love to know if there are any. thanks.


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מיכי Staff answered 6 years ago
I didn’t understand what was so strange. The consecration of a woman is a formal halakhic act and I see no fundamental obstacle to applying it to the consecration of a woman. Two people can own one slave (partners), and if one frees him, then he is half slave and half free. This does not mean that they will run a household and live a married life. These are human situations, not formal halakhic situations. There are no recorded lessons on the Seder (there are written lessons on the site). Recorded lessons appear on the site under the Lessons – Audio or Video tab.

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יוני replied 6 years ago

Thank you very much.
First of all, I would like to say that it is a pity that there are no recorded lessons on tractates. This is something that is very much needed and we would be happy to have it.
Regarding the subject itself, the conclusion of the words shows that Rava meant to say that a man sanctifies a woman to his half, meaning that he will be able to marry another woman and not to his real half. And regarding a woman, it is impossible to say that he meant that he sanctifies a woman only to his half, because I did not foresee it. Although this is a conclusion.
But Abaye understood that Rava meant to mean literally half. And it is not clear which half is being referred to. It sounds funny to divide a body in half and start discussing. It is like discussing which side of the sanctity will apply, whether to the width or length.
Thank you.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

There is an unallocated half. Even in a partnership on a field, you can ask which half of the field belongs to each person, and there is no answer to that.

יוני replied 6 years ago

If so, then I didn't understand what the "hu" was and what the conclusion was? In the "hu" it was about there being a state of a thing that belongs to two and in the conclusion this is what Rabbi said, "Jach"
Thanks for the answers by the way.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

You yourself explained that the Rava is only talking about a remnant for Kiddushin, and that Abay is talking about the division of the woman herself (into unallocated parts). Incidentally, the resemblance to the foot of this woman also suggests that this is talking about the division of the woman herself.

יוני replied 6 years ago

I don't see a difference. After all, the whole meaning of dividing a woman into indiscriminate parts is that one part is supposedly sacred and the other part is not, and that is itself reserved for sanctification, isn't it? I would appreciate it if you could explain in detail to understand the division.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

And if the parts are indeed negotiable, do you see a division? The implication is still that another can sanctify her.
Unnegotiable parts mean that half of the woman is consecrated to one and half to the other, just like a division into negotiable parts. But each person's half is not a negotiable half (but perhaps depends on a choice, like the division of partners). In contrast, the Rabbi is not talking about dividing the woman herself, but about the right of sanctification for two of her.
Even in the division of partners, there are two options that are usually presented: an undecided half of the field to each person (which depends on the law of choice), a division of the rights and not of the field itself (which does not depend on a choice). Incidentally, the possibility that there is a partnership in each grain is a third option and not necessarily like the second.

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