On Style and Essence – Clarifications and Basic Assumptions for Website Readers (Column 63)
With God’s help
Lately I have received repeated comments about my words. People claimed that they contained heresy and disrespect for our great rishonim and poskim. Some of the comments concerned style and some concerned substance. As a result, I thought I should clarify my starting points, my relationship to the rishonim, the poskim and the tradition in general, and of course also the style.
This column will be more personal, unlike the regular columns, but I think it's important to clarify things. I'll say right away that I'm not apologizing for anything and I didn't come to interpret my words, but rather to clarify my starting points for the benefit of the readers. Of course, if they bring to my attention any place where I deviated from what is written here, I'll be happy to apologize and retract. Readers are invited and called upon to do so.
Writing in the Internet Age
Writing in the Internet age has a uniqueness compared to previous times. Things are accessible to everyone, you can quote a partial quote from them that is taken out of context (cut & paste), and the rapid passage of these partial quotes may cause a distorted picture of things. People are unaware of these characteristics, both readers and writers, and therefore judge things in light of partial quotes without checking the context and the complete picture and without reading the entire article. This is despite the fact that the Internet also has an advantage in this sense, since today it is very easy to check things inside and read them in their original form. But the flow of information probably causes people to make a judgment quickly and move on to the next site (I guess I suffer from this too).
The appreciation for our
This is for my own good. I greatly respect our sages of all generations, the first and last sages. There were real giants among them. Most of them were people full of talent and knowledge, honest in heart and mind, seekers of truth, and possessed of impressive and extensive knowledge. I am proud to be the youngest of their students and the one who continues their path. It is difficult for me to evaluate the patriarchs, Moses and the prophets, but the sages, the geniuses and the first, and so the last until today, are people worthy of enormous appreciation. No less impressive is the collective enterprise that they all created together, and which I, the little one, hope to join and be a part of.
I will use Maimonides as an example, one of the comments I received touched on my relationship with him. Maimonides' work is unparalleled, and I have great doubts about how many parallels there are in the entire world to such a vast, diverse, and original work. A Jew who single-handedly managed to reorganize all of Judaism, halakha, thought, and meta-halakha, to understand, sort, and arrange in his own way all the material that had accumulated up to his time, and all this in parallel with his work as a physician and his vast knowledge in all fields. This is a phenomenon that deserves admiration. The man also showed awareness and reflection on his own methodology. He built the structure of his great work on a systematic, orderly foundation that he himself also built almost from scratch and took the trouble to lay out before us. I have no words to express my admiration for this man, and he certainly doesn't need my words. The same is true of the rest of our sages, the first and the last, and certainly Chazal. To think that I despise him is nothing greater than foolishness. Anyone who despises him is a person who lacks any understanding.
All these are my gentlemen whose waters I thirstily drink and to whom I am bound with deep appreciation and love. I dedicate a significant part of my time and efforts to understanding their words through various means, and to deciphering their intent and the meanings hidden within them. For me, the Torah in its broadest sense is an existential rock. From within it and within it I seek my path and formulate my worldview, when here too I incorporate sources, arguments, beliefs, and through various means. This is my extended family, and my worldviews are formulated within it and within it.
The attitude towards our elders and their authority
But respect for a person does not mean seeing him as an angel who never makes mistakes. And certainly love is not supposed to spoil the story. All these wonderful people were human beings like me and you, and that is precisely why I respect and love them and am connected to them. I have no relationship with the ministering angels (if there are any at all), and I do not see much connection between me and them. My family is made up of humans.
I have already brought up the words of theMGA In the book of Kenu, which cites the Talmudic law that it is permissible to say something in the name of a great person so that they will accept it from me. This is astonishing, since any person can say any nonsense in the name of a great person and cause those who hear him to commit the most serious sins. How can this permission be understood? I explained that in my opinion, the assumption ofMGA It is the opposite of what could be understood. He probably assumes that when I hear things in the name of a great person, I will not automatically accept them, but will only consider them seriously and with respect. The reason someone will criticize a great person is not so that they will accept his bottom line, but because he feels that his arguments are not being treated properly. The listeners do not seriously consider his arguments out of contempt for him. His intention is to get them to take them seriously, to consider the things, and then decide for themselves. Therefore, he is allowed to present the things in the name of a great person, because this will get the listeners to consider the arguments seriously. But in the end, the assumption is that everyone does what he thinks. Even if he hears things from a great person, he does not accept them just because of the speaker. He considers the things themselves and forms a position on them.
I have already mentioned the distinction between two types of "visionaries": the first type is the regular ones, that is, those who actually do everything that is written in my book. Vision of IsraelThe second type is the true visionaries, those who do what they themselves think just like their majority.Vision of Israel Did and ordered to do. I belong to the second type. Respect for many of us does not mean that I will accept everything they said, but on the other hand I will definitely seriously consider what they said before I formulate my own position. And with all due respect to everyone, the bottom line is that I will think, say and do, what I myself think.
There are, of course, also formal considerations of authority, such as the authority of the Sanhedrin or the laws of the Talmud, which are not halachically possible to dispute. This is despite the fact that there are certainly halachic and factual errors in the Talmud as well (and there certainly are). Authority means that the halachic instructions must be accepted despite the error. But I have already explained more than once that in the realms of thought, which usually deal with facts, there is no possibility of speaking of authority. If I have come to the conclusion that the Messiah will not come (and to dispel any doubt: I have not), then even if all the sages of Israel stood up and said the opposite, it would at most make me reconsider my position. But formal authority is not possible here. And if I say with my mouth that I believe with complete faith in the coming of the Messiah, will that change what is in my mind? As long as I am not convinced, I cannot claim that I believe it, but only say it out loud. Therefore, in the realms of beliefs and opinions, one can only convince and not argue by virtue of authority. Furthermore, even in the realms of Halacha, where, as stated, one can speak of authority, it should not be extended beyond its limits. He who has authority has it, and he who does not, with all his wisdom, has no authority. Regarding his words, one can only be convinced by them, but not accept them just because he said them.
already I have written more than once. That there is a halakhic value to an autonomous decision. After a voice came out of the sky in Yavneh (in the case of Achnai's oven) – the sages did not accept it because, even though it was the truth, they thought otherwise. They understood that they were wrong, because God in heaven certainly knows what the halakhah is. But there is an autonomous obligation to rule as I understand it, even if I am wrong. And so the Gemara also says that they did not rule on the halakhah of the Rabbis because his friends did not come to the conclusion of his opinion. Even though he was so wise, in a rank above all others, they did not rule like him. Not because the truth was with them and not with him, but because as long as they were not convinced, then this was their position and they were obliged to act according to it even though they also understood that it was probably incorrect.
About respect and disrespect
It seems to me that the approach that discusses and considers the words of our sages and formulates an independent position gives them much more respect than the approach that accepts their words blindly. The approach that assumes that these are angels who are infallible and who have absolute authority presents them as unwilling to accept an appeal and error in their position. The second approach that ostensibly gives them a lot of respect actually assumes that their words cannot be justified from a factual standpoint and therefore also exempts us from doing so. Around Maimonides' Composition The strong hand A great controversy arose, among other things, because he did not cite sources or provide reasoning. The sages felt that this was not a way that gave respect to the Torah and to them. No one has the right to demand that their words be accepted simply because they said them. The things said in the court (unlike the Sanhedrin) are in the nature of proposals for discussion and an expression of a position. And these are my words here.
Rabbi Soloveitchik in his composition And you asked from there, gives a wonderful description of his experiences as a child. He describes how his father (Rabbi Moshe) sits around a round table with Rabbi Akiva, Abaye and Rava, the Maimonides, the Rabbani, and the Gra, and they are engaged in Torah. A problem arises for the Maimonides and he is in tension as to whether his father and the Rabbaniides will win or not. He feels part of the group, and in fact sees all of them as his family. When I read these things, I realized that my experience is very similar. For me, I sit around a round table with all the students of the sages from all generations and we all study together. I am a partner in this discourse, and I am not willing to give in to any of them. Giving in to someone out of respect is an expression of disrespect or lack of closeness. Moreover, when I talk to family members, I am not careful with my words. If one of them talks nonsense, then I tell him so. Sometimes I laugh at him and joke at his expense. But all of this is done because I feel an inseparable part of the group. I am at home and not in a museum that perpetuates the past, where one must be careful that nothing is broken there.[1]
A few years ago, when I was teaching at the Hesder Yeshiva in Yeruham, several events occurred that aroused my anger. I posted ironic and cynical posts in which I mocked all of us. The students went into a mental turmoil because they felt the Yeshiva was being harmed, especially its head (Rabbi Blumentzweig). I gathered them in the dining room in the evening and told them that the words were written precisely because of my deep appreciation for the Rosh Yeshiva. I got angry because people were making fun of all of us (including him) and we were following them like a pack of dogs. I added that anyone who is in a museum is tiptoeing. He doesn't want to break anything in this glass house. He wants things to remain intact and pastoral and to accompany him in his life when he is already far (in all respects) from the Yeshiva. He will have a corner that is both pastoral and accompanying that he can miss (theoretically) but remain far from. I, on the other hand, feel at home, and at home I don't tiptoe. Anyone who does stupid things (in my opinion) will get bites and scoldings from me. Of course, he is also welcome to return the favor in kind. But these things are said and stem from connection, not distance. They stem from love and respect, but they are the result of a family bond, not a distant and alienated respect for the exhibits in the museum.
So, in my opinion, the excessive and unrealistic respect given to many of us from all generations often expresses a kind of disdain. People do not dare to honestly discuss their words and criticize them, but this actually indicates a hidden assumption that this criticism will destroy the status of those being criticized. As if they have no answers and therefore we should spare them. I have full trust in them and their honesty, and in my opinion, true respect for their words is given precisely when we discuss their words honestly and sharply. Anyone who participates in this discourse, that is, sits around the table in the group, needs to understand this. Anyone who remains outside and sees this as a museum will continue to be careful about the honor of our first and last great men, and thus deprive them of the respect and love they deserve.
Connection with people brings closeness. Closeness leads to seeing them as human beings, with their lights and shadows. No one is perfect, and everyone has shortcomings, mistakes, downfalls, and the like. When you are close, you see all of this, and when you feel close, you don't hesitate to point it out. Caution indicates distance. Admiration for a plaque hanging on the wall rather than a life together. With those close to me, I joke and tease, go down on them, and then pat them on the head with friendship and a wink. The Torah belongs to all of us, and we all need to take part in shaping and shaping it. Anyone who does not take part in this process has no part in it. He will treat it like a church. With full respect and at the same time with distance.
About the style
Here I return to the Internet. Things written for a wide audience cannot be said like things said within the Beit Midrash, that is, within the family. My assumption when I write these things is that the readers want to belong and therefore also belong to this family. They sit around the table in this virtual court and are full partners in everything that is done there. It is true that sometimes things come out, sometimes in a fragmented manner, and sometimes they simply don't understand or don't pay attention to the context.
Although my style is cynical and ironic, and I express things somewhat sharply, cynicism is not disrespect. I do not remember a place where I disrespected the former, or even the latter (perhaps some of our contemporary rabbis, and I do not remember that now either). I do remember that I presented them as human beings who can make mistakes and who have flaws, just like you and me. Thus, when I say that I do not care whether according to the Rambam I am an apocryphal scholar, I mean that the definitions he gives to my words are not an argument. Whoever wants to convince me must explain to me where I am wrong. Therefore, it is not enough to tell me that I am an apocryphal scholar according to the method of so-and-so or an unknown person, and therefore I do not accept comments of this kind. There is not the slightest disrespect in these things for the Rambam, whose relationship to him I clarified above. After all, the Rambam himself did exactly what I do. He disagreed with his predecessors without batting an eyelid, including in things that were perceived as highly unusual. He imposed his logic on the sources (as the Rambam showed several times in his explorations of the roots), and in some places he also disparaged and even mocked his predecessors and those who disagreed with him. None of this necessarily expresses disrespect. It expresses involvement and a sense of family. Within the family, people speak freely. That's part of the point of this family experience.
If there was anywhere an expression of disdain towards any of the first or the greatest of the latter (as mentioned, I don't remember any), I invite readers to present it here (preferably with a link). If there are any, I will pull them back here. But if I expressed my position cynically or ironically, that's my way. This should not be seen as disdain because it does not express disdain. It is a form of expression that came to sharpen the points and the difficulties they entail. It is difficult for me to understand an interpretation that sees my words as disdain for the people whose position I have dedicated my life to clarifying. As far as I am concerned, the reader of this site is a participant in a Beit Midrashic discussion. This is how my words should be seen, and anyone who interprets them differently is mistaken and misleading.
My lips will kiss you, and you will answer with strong words.
These are the 'words of the living God'
Strengthens my voice, which speaks a different, reasoned and intelligent voice (even if I don't agree with everything with it) and makes life (religious? intellectual?) more interesting for me.
Hello Rabbi,
In my personal opinion, sometimes your style undermines the purpose for which you wrote the article/post. Maybe you see it as sharpening your words and showing the irony of the opposing opinion, but you will agree that you are writing to convince others and not yourself. Therefore, the way you understand your style is important, but I recommend hearing what your readers think of it - and if it undermines their ability to accept your words, then you yourself have not achieved your purpose in the article.
Hello June.
I am indeed paying attention and will continue to pay attention. I will also try to draw conclusions.
I'll just say that I really enjoyed reading this post, and I hope we continue to receive you with a clear and opinionated mind, without dullness or rounding.
Rabbi Michi
When you write to the Rishonim in an overly direct style, it is perceived negatively. Take, for example, the sentence "With all due respect, the Rambam and the Rashba have no authority to do so and so" (Makor Rishon Musaf Shabbat) immediately creates the impression that you intend to belong to those who insult the Rishonim.
If you are indeed publishing and writing to influence others, and certainly if you want conservatives to also treat your words in a matter-of-fact manner, I suggest that you use language that expresses the respect you feel for Maimonides, the Rashba, and the other first-century scholars.
H. Hello.
This is actually a good example. What's offensive here? I really think they have no authority and that's what I wrote. How could I have phrased it more delicately? I even prefaced it with all due respect (although maybe people think this is just a polite addition like "if it weren't for Demisthapina", which it isn't).
Rabbi Michi,
It is indeed a bit ironic, but in my opinion the wording 'With all due respect to the Rambam' is considered arrogant and disrespectful. And in my opinion it is easiest to write the same sentence without this phrase or to write 'We learned from the Rambam and the Rashba themselves that the Talmud alone is the binding source of authority.'
On the second day of Nissan 77
To Ramada – Greetings,
What to do? What spits, jumps and goes 'koh koh' is a frog, what looks like disrespect and sounds like disrespect – is disrespect!
Often the blunt and dismissive style covers up the weakness of the argument. As in, 'one joke repels several rebukes.' There will always be rude Amarats who will applaud and lick the 'likes' of ridicule, thus eliminating the burdensome need to reason, cite sources, and seriously discuss the opponent's arguments.
Chazal and our first and last rabbis stand out in the culture of clean and respectful debate. Come to terms with it: in all of the thousand and seven hundred pages of Talmudic debates, there are a total of about 20 (!) harsh expressions that the author of 'Chavat Yair' discusses in his well-known response presented at the end of the book 'Chafetz Chaim', and explains that most of them are a rebuke from a rabbi to his student who was negligent in his eye.
And apart from a few expressions, there is an entire literature that is entirely devoted to debates on existential matters, the foundations of faith, and serious laws – and almost without exception, in a matter-of-fact and precise style. The use of euphemism is the characteristic (especially for Passover) of those who are to teach halakhic law.
It is not for nothing that Rabbi Barachiah (Yoma aa) describes the disciples of the sages as 'people', who are like women 'humble and exhausted in strength', but who act bravely like men.' Avoiding the demagogic means of cynical ridicule forces the writer to conduct a factual and reasoned inquiry that focuses on acceptable arguments, which alone are likely to convince those seeking the truth.
Best regards, S.C. Levinger
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Hello Shtzel. I would love links that would show me examples of it being green and jumping like a frog, and then I would admit that it is a frog. I disbelieve that.
In light of the comments here, I suddenly realized that in my opinion what offends people is the content of my positions and not the form of expression. The positions themselves are perceived as impudence (see the example given above regarding the authority of the Maimonides and the Rashba. This is truly an example of sensitivity to the content and not to the form of expression). This is my impression, but I would appreciate examples to understand where I am wrong (if indeed).
Also regarding the quotes you brought, these are statements about and not an analysis of the material itself. There are certainly quite a few examples of much harsher expressions than mine in the Rishonim and Aharonim, and in the Talmud itself. And even when a rabbi scolds his student, as you brought from the Chavvi, this should not be done within a canonical text in the eyes of all Israel. So it is difficult for me to accept this excuse.
There are also expressions that speak of the matter from above and describe a different picture, such as the sages of Babylon as a staff of captains, etc. Not to mention the B"S and the B"H who killed each other, and many who were killed by Rabbi Zira (Megillah 7:2). And every judge who judges as if he were a judge is not a judge (B"M 30) and many more. Our rabbis did not really take into account the severity of the wording. Therefore, in my opinion, studying the sources is an act of contradiction.
But I don't see any reason for this, because even if our rabbis did it, I don't necessarily endorse everything they did or said (in my opinion). I was just commenting on your words.
Bottom line, I would appreciate examples from my words that would sharpen the discussion and allow us to be more concrete.
I don't think the endless talk about 'my authority to disagree with the first' constitutes 'an attack on the first'. It just sounds pretentious and 'lacking coverage'….. …
There is a joke about a Rebbe's son who went to the court and told him that his father appeared to him in a dream and instructed him to be his successor as Rebbe. The judge said to him: "Shlomo, if your father had come to the elders of the Hasidim in a dream and instructed them to crown you as his successor, there would be room for debate. But when it appeared only to you, one would sense that you are seeing from the reflections of your heart."
Even Anna Nima:
If the great men of Israel of our generation were to gather – the Gra"m Shach and the Gersh"z Auerbach, the Gra"m Elyashiv and the Gersh"z Wasner, the Gra"m Israeli and the Gersh"z Goren, the Gra"m Shapira and the Gersh"m Kapach, the Gra"m Soloveitchik and the Gra"m Feinstein, the Gra"m Yosef and the Gra"m Eliyahu, the Zichr Tzaddikim, may God bless them, and declare that a certain sage is as great as one of the first and is most blessed to be "tanna and velij" over them – we would wear that sage as a crown on our heads. But when a person comes on his own behalf and claims: "I am the first and I am the last" – it seems to the rabbi that there is room for some reservation 🙂
May we be blessed with the privilege of toiling and working hard to understand the words of the Rishonim in Halacha and Aggadah, and on the solid foundation they laid for us – and to build and innovate true innovations!
Best regards, S.C. Levinger
Shtzel,
The subject is not like evidence. After all, I have not crowned myself with any special crown. I claim this also for you and for anyone who is in the matter (bar hik). This is a claim about the tradition and its meaning, not about me. My claim is not that I am the greatest of the generation and therefore I determine or I can disagree with everyone. My claim is that one does not need to be the greatest of the generation for this. This is a completely different claim. Furthermore, I have written several times explicitly that this does not stem from special greatness but from the system of autonomy. Even if I know that their little ones are thicker than my waist, I have the right (as does everyone) to disagree. And so we find in Shas itself (I gave examples of rabbis who did not rule like him because they did not reach the end of their minds, and it is not in the sky in the oven of an akhnai, and so on). And in general, since Abaye and Rava, the law has been as it seems, and the things are ancient.
On the 4th of Nisan 7th
To Ramada – Greetings,
The parsha of 'Achnai's Furnace' is solid evidence that there is a concern that 'the Torah should not be made like two Torahs,' and even a great man like Rabbi Eliezer is forbidden from instructing the multitude in his words, contrary to the majority opinion.
The ideal is that one law for all of Israel would come from the great court in the Ashkenazi chamber. The situation of two houses with no decision between them probably stemmed from Herod's takeover of the Sanhedrin, which pushed the sages into their 'private sphere', a situation that led to the creation of separate schools of thought.
This situation was corrected by Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai, followed by Rabban Gamliel Divna, who reestablished the 'House of the Council' as a central framework, a situation that existed to a certain extent in the days of the Amoraim, when there were several central yeshivots in Babylon and Palestine.
And in any case, judicial unity was required within a community, for according to Rava, there should not be in one court some teachers this way and some teachers that way, and according to Abaye, even in 'two courts in one city' there should be a rule 'not to crowd together'.
In practice, I believe that until the time of the expulsions of the 15th century, in most places there was only one community in each city (except in Baghdad, where for a certain period the two yeshivas 'Sura' and 'Pumbedita' sat, and Cairo, where there was a separate community of the children of the Land of Israel).
It was only in the 15th century, when, due to the mass deportations of Ashkenazi Jews from Spain and France, situations increased in which entire communities were displaced and continued to exist as independent communities in the place where they found refuge.
And yet each community was attached to a specific city, in which there were one or several communities, but the reality of an 'extra-territorial community' was unthinkable, and certainly not the reality of an individual without community affiliation.
The reality of an 'extraterritorial community' only began to exist in the 18th century, for several reasons: the dissolution of up to four counties in Poland, and the subsequent suppression of community autonomy in the modern European nation-state, which, unlike the Middle Ages, did not view positively the existence of autonomous corporations with self-jurisdiction.
Even the great struggles within Jewish society, with those suspected of being Shabbatons, and later the tensions between Hasidim and opponents, between educated people and conservatives, and between Zionists and their opponents – created a completely new situation in which there is a strong tendency for the local community to disintegrate, with each individual finding their own extraterritorial rabbi, to the point of the absurd situation of 'ten courts in one nuclear family.'
In our situation, where every Jew is an individualist, personal communal affiliation constitutes 'necessity will not be mourned,' but I believe that this was not the 'intention of the poet' who gave the Torah to his people in order to create a 'kingdom of priests and a holy nation,' a nation that worships God as a cohesive society, and not as a random collection of individuals. Therefore, there should be an aspiration at the very least to strengthen the common denominator and not to further fragment it.
It seems to me that just as the period of the Tannaim came to a close with the creation of the Mishnah, and just as the period of the Amorites was concluded with the creation of the Talmud, which formed an agreed-upon foundation for future generations, so the period of the Rishonim concluded around the composition of the Beit Yosef, which created a kind of virtual Sanhedrin, and following it, the Shulchan Aruch and at the same time the glosses of the Rema and their subjects, are intertwined in establishing the superior status of the Rishonim, which the latter very rarely dispute.
Just as the first avoided arguing about the Sages, and were content with interpreting and deciding between the Sages – so the latter accepted the first as the foundation and starting point for their halachic discussions. And with God's help, the era of the Haronim will also come to be gathered and signed by great creators such as Rabbi Yehuda the President, Rav Ashi and Rabbi Yosef Karo and the Rema, whose work of gathering and editing led to the formation of a new common denominator for the entire nation!
Best regards, S.C. Levinger
I see no value in unifying the Torah. Only where there is a threat to the integrity and functioning of society. This was the situation in Akhnai's oven. See my article here: https://mikyab.net/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9B%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%90-%D7%93%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%9F-%D7%91%D7%95-%D7%91%D7%99%D7%95%D7%9D-%D7%94%D7%94%D7%95%D7%90-%D7%99%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%90-%D7%94%D7%95%D7%94-%D7%99/
"I am at home, not in a museum that commemorates the past, where one must be careful that nothing is broken there."
Beautiful sentence!
And because I am at home – I take care not to undermine its foundations. When I have solid foundations – I can expand and elevate and shape in any direction I please. The stronger the foundation – the broader the horizons!
Best regards, S.C. Levinger
I am in a place where I really need to be careful that nothing breaks. Responsibility outweighs the desire to uphold and implement my opinion at all costs.
May the power of things prevail, be strong and courageous!
And because I want solid foundations – I will make sure to work on them and improve them until they are unshakable. Because foundations that I can easily undermine while walking alone in the house are not solid enough foundations, and they may, God forbid, collapse if I try to bring other people into my home.
I think you are right that the content is a central issue in what is seen as offensive, but the style can mitigate what is seen as offensive. If we take the sentence above, "With all due respect to the Rambam, he has no authority," etc., then the content will really shock many people, but the style can mitigate that. The introduction of the word "in my opinion," and especially the phrase "in my humble opinion," already works wonders - there is no added content here (there may be some added content in the phrase), but they mitigate the impression. When you read the sentence as it is, you get the impression that you are not giving Maimonides the impression - after all, if he did something, he probably thought he had authority, and from the style you can get the impression that his opinion is not legitimate; Adding 'in my opinion' gives the impression that his opinion is legitimate, and you are not trying to throw it out of the field of halakhic opinions as an external opinion (and indeed, you and your acquaintances know that you do not want to throw out any opinion but only discuss them, but not all readers know this), but you think that it should not be ruled that way. Another thing - the expression "with all due respect" is often used to mean "I have no respect," and when the writer uses it cynically, of course it makes you even more suspicious. If you want, you should invest more in convincing readers of the sincerity of the respect you have for the Maimonides, even though it can be tedious.
I completely agree. I even received your interpretation of "with all due respect" from my wife today. I really didn't mean it that way, but now I understand why it was interpreted that way. I wrote it literally.
It seems that your cynical style is not only due to your feeling like a member of the family but also due to your deadly criticism of postmodernism, which is concerned with style and not content.
Cynicism and sarcasm do not come from a sense of 'family' or from an anti-postmodern or other ideology.
This is a character trait, which sometimes develops from environmental influence at some point in the past or present, or from a lack of self-confidence, which the person covers up by being honored by the disgrace of others, and the 'fasting' he earns through provocative actions and statements. – And I'm not talking about a cynical statement here and there, but a constant style that mocks 'everything that moves.'
The cynic is not a happy person. He must constantly maneuver his entire life between the pleasure of being hurt and mocked, and the constant need to justify himself with pep talks explaining how mockery is the height of honor 🙂
We can only pray and bless the scorner, that he may be granted the privilege of emerging from the 'Desert of Zin' and finding his happiness in the eye of good, the eye of justice is the 'Holy Desert'!
With a blessing of a kosher and happy Pe-Sach, Shin Tsin Lin
And I dare to say these harsh things, because in my opinion, the quality of seeking the truth is also clearly inherent. A seeker of truth deserves to tell the truth!
Best regards, S.C. Levinger
To my peace.
I also completely accept your words. In a post-mortem analysis of my words, I would also add another aspect of an anti-postmodern motive: It is intended to say that I have a position and am legitimate in forming a position and not to stick with the idea that everyone is right and "this and that," etc.
Shtzel, it's your analysis that I disagree with. But maybe I'm touching on something and I'm sorry, I won't do the post-mortem on myself.
Rabbi Michi, may your strength be with you.
I just recently heard from a friend that the reason the Lord of the Worlds gave Moses the curse for breaking the tablets was because Moses understood that the calf was the problem. He was the one who "led" them out of Egypt, and therefore, when he was gone, they needed a replacement. Breaking the tablets broke the spell. The important thing is the word of God, not Moses the man.
Following Rabbi Nachman, who writes that students are called teachers, and Rabbi Shagar explains that the rabbi learns the tribulations of the generation and the relevant Torah from the students. The students bring the rabbi out of power into action.
And we will only add that the person writing here is a scholar and not a countryman who would not bother to write.
And after we have made some introductions, let's get to the point. It seems to me that what bothers the commentators is the question of revelation, to which the Rabbi does not have a satisfactory answer. The Rabbi speaks the truth and therefore admits that he does not have an answer, but sometimes, just as it is commanded to say things that are heard, it is also commanded not to say things that are not heard.
It seems to me that the rabbi's assumption is that the revelation was a historical matter. At least in my opinion, and it seems to me that in the opinion of most of the commenters, revelation is an ongoing matter. Of course, these things are not new. Rabbi Jonathan Sachs, in his book Crisis and Covenant, writes that the only proof that the Torah offers for its truth is that Jews will continue to hold fast (the book is not in my possession, so it is difficult for me to give a source). This is actually also the proof of the Khozari. The fact that the kernel became a tree that today encompasses most of the world testifies to the truthfulness of the revelation to the people of Israel (see Micah Goodman's book on the Khozari). And finally, of course, Chazal in Tractate Yoma Seth writes, "And these are his terrors, that if it were not for the fear of the Holy One, how could one nation exist among the nations?" The name of the Lord that is upon the nation inspires awe among the Gentiles, which deters them from harming the people of Israel (and if they ask about the Holocaust, the Gra has already written that when the return of Zion begins, the Shekhinah returns to the Land of Israel and ceases to protect Israel outside the land). Revelation in this sense is not a historical matter, but a practical, empirical matter that occurs every day.
I could add more and more, but I think this is the crucial point.
14 I'm not sure I understood the revelation issue. Do you mean when I said that God no longer intervenes as he once did? That's not exactly revelation, but involvement. Or do you mean belief in the Mount Sinai event? So what are the two alternatives? What does historical revelation mean versus ongoing revelation? I didn't understand.
By the way, when dealing with arguments, you don't need to remember and cite sources. The argument itself is enough.
I wasn't clear enough and got a little mixed up.
The rabbi describes the revelation as a historical event that occurred three thousand years ago on Mount Sinai where the Torah was given and since then the Lord of the Worlds has not appeared in the world. On top of this description – for which the rabbi has no proof – the rabbi adds a sharp historicist layer. The halakha of Moses from Sinai is not really Moses from Sinai, the belief in the world to come and in the Messiah, the opinions of the sages, later additions were added to the Torah itself, the origin of the Zohar is questionable, and more. Each of the claims has its own solid foundation, but their grouping together raises the question of whether the separation that the rabbi makes between the core of the revelation itself, which is not supposed to be historical, and the rest of the historical Merkabim stands.
There is no doubt about the rabbi's commitment to halacha, and his belief in it as God's word, and yet from the moment the rabbi's belief in G-d is purely philosophical without giving room to the empirical aspect of revelation while combining a historicist approach to the Torah, it is difficult to understand where the line is drawn. Why not say that the entire Torah is the opinions of humans (and not just the halacha of Moses from Sinai), later additions starting from the middle of the First Temple period (as biblical criticism claims), medieval philosophical influences (Kabbalah), and more. After all, from the moment we take a historicist approach to the Torah, where does the line cross?
I certainly identify with the questions that the rabbi is grappling with, and the easy life that many people make for themselves on these issues is unacceptable to me. There are certainly questions and nagging problems that it is not serious to run away from. But equally, in my opinion, it is also important to anchor the revelation in some empirical dimension. In my opinion, the empirical dimension that the Sages provide here is strong. It explains what the difference is between Israel and the Sioux tribe (who were massacred while the Jewish people survived in the meantime), why there is no point in Christianity and Islam (since both religions are only trying to fake the revelation of the name of God in the world that exists in the Jewish people and the Torah), and more. What reveals the name of God in the world is not some historical revelation from three thousand years ago, but the very existence of the Jewish people and the Torah in the world. In my opinion, to see the name of God in the world, it is enough to look in the mirror.
The Lord of the World cannot be touched. He is not part of the world in the simple sense (and I am not entering into the dispute between Chabad and the Lithuanians here). But the Lord of the World has signifiers in the world – Israel and the Torah. After all, within the framework of his ghetto and his hand, they come as one. The proven and the proven come as one. It is true that the Lord of the World no longer performs visible miracles in the simple sense, but the very survival of the Jewish people and their return to the Land of Israel is perhaps the greatest miracle that has ever happened, and the prophet Jeremiah wrote:
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt: 8 For as the LORD liveth, which brought up and which brought up the seed of the house of Israel out of the land of the north, and out of all the countries whither I had driven them, and they shall dwell in their own land. (23:6-7)
It is no coincidence that the Mizrahi people receive the yoke of the Kingdom of Heaven at the end of the evening prayer of Independence Day. For them, the hand of God is revealed in the resurrection of the people of Israel in their land.
I will only add that these things have additional implications, such as the difference between Jewish books of thought that are still considered Torah words, compared to books of philosophy that are considered books of wisdom. I agree with the rabbi that there is a subtle difference between books of thought and halacha and scholarship, and yet since they are part of the revelation of the name of God in the world, in my opinion they have a Torah law and are prohibited from being brought into the toilets and the blessings of the Torah should be recited over them. Gentile books of philosophy, on the other hand, do not have such a barrier, and therefore they are permitted to be read in the toilets.
I hope that what I say will be accepted and not considered impudence and impudence.
May you be strong and blessed, Rabbi Y.D., for your words! Indeed, words of truth are evident.
Dear Y.D.
Why are these words of impudence or audacity? Things like provocations written in a nice and acceptable manner. What's more, a little impudence and cynicism (which do not exist here to the best of my judgment) are not harmful in my opinion.
As for the substance of the matter, I agree with every word. I didn't understand where the point was. After all, I wrote in the fifth notebook all these arguments from the unique history and more. But in my opinion, this does not necessarily express divine involvement (at least in recent generations) but rather the Jewish nature instilled in us by the Torah and its existence and by our history.
My belief in the status of Mount Sinai is factual. However, its content is not entirely clear to me (and I think to others as well, except that they do not dare to give themselves an account of it). My conclusion that there was such a status is based, among other things, on the arguments you have raised here.
Indeed, the boundary between what was accepted there and what was added is unknown to me. What to do, I have not been able to reach a conclusion on this matter. In the meantime, there are assumptions (such as the assumption that what is written in the Torah is from heaven until proven otherwise).
There are evident words of truth. We will continue to enjoy your writing.
thanks.
Thank you very much, esteemed rabbi. Your words that come from the heart are evident. But the love is great. Truly, truly. First of all, I would like to point out that in order to distinguish between venom and cynicism and acceptable Torah teachings, one must take a look at your early books, full of slander, and your writing on the website. In your doctorates, some will write about your early and late writing (for now), and some will have to write new doctorates, so they will reinvent a different invention: writing in a book and writing on the Internet. Is it that Internet writing also goes very well with the late writing? Well, it is a unity of content and form, they will answer. B. I would like to point out that most of the findings that reveal foul language will be found in your extensive answers and not in the columns. It is precisely in your tired and multitasking writing that you tend to release the created without restraint. Search there, and there you will see the phenomenon of "letting loose his (poetic?) anger." As for us, here are a few jarring things, and I cannot detail them because they are many and time is short and I am trying to be strict about wasting time on them:
1. Regarding the prohibition of Haredi (latest?) rabbis to own a smartphone without a pornographic filter (based on the discussion in your answer there), you call on the questioner to be silent. Unclean language for all those who have left the religion and the religious lite. There is no rabbinical answer, not even the most obedient, that would use this language: "My understanding is that no rabbi has the authority to determine anything. ...and even if you belong to a community that rabbis forbid, I still think that this is not a wall. If you need it for a living or see it as important, then be silent."
https://mikyab.net/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%90%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%96%D7%A7%D7%AA-%D7%A1%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%9E%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%92%D7%93%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99-%D7%94/
There you write that you have no value in the great Haredi Jews (probably Rabbis Elyashiv Steinman and Kanievsky. Remember your taunts against Grach Kanievsky in the rabbinical community? The question is how far will we go before we start to appreciate him? The Chazo? Maybe the Gra? What is the rule? Every great one that I haven't seen with my own eyes in the flesh becomes a positive myth? The one who eats kyegel and is wrapped in a business suit is no longer a businessman?: "I do not have much trust in the rabbis who are considered great in the Haredi world. I have lost it, unfortunately (or fortunately). I assume that these are good people with good intentions, and some of them are also great rabbis (although I usually don't appreciate their way of thinking very much), but unfortunately they do not know the world in which they live and are led to their decisions by small, self-interested businessmen who are looking for employment instead of studying in a kollel (which is quite boring for them)."
2. Regarding the prohibition of legumes, you testify to yourself that you are careful to "overlap". You could say that you do not believe that there is a need to be stricter, but it seems that you enjoy slaughtering cows in the language of "I write there that I see no point in keeping this custom, and over the years I have been slacking on it more and more (like most of us), ...if it weren't for them, no one would have been careful about this ridiculous nonsense long ago." (!). Ridiculous nonsense?! Which of the great men of Israel, first and last, would agree with you on such a statement that actually constitutes an example for your students to overlap and belittle what they, in their poor philosophical education (which very likely does not reach and will not reach yours), conclude.https://mikyab.net/%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%92%D7%96%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%AA-%D7%A7%D7%98%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%97%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%9D-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8-2/
3. You cancel all the prayers of the House of Israel, especially in Haredi gatherings in anticipation of the Day of Judgment, and claim that perceiving Rosh Hashanah as the Day of Judgment is "childish." All this despite the fact that this is what all the first and last understood. Childish?? Are we all retarded?:
"Today I will comment on something about Elul... To be honest, this fart doesn't really occur to any of us. The constant repetition of this fart only indicates that none of us have any farts... I would like to offer a heretical alternative here: Maybe not? Maybe Elul is a good time and worthy of annual self-examination, but farts and the fear of judgment are not really in us, and perhaps they shouldn't be. The image as if everyone is standing trial for every detail of their actions (which they haven't remembered for a long time) probably doesn't sound very convincing to us. Maybe even a bit childish." - Note, even if you are right, one of the great ways to enter an atmosphere of self-examination specifically on this day is to assume - at least as a side of doubt - that judgment does indeed occur on this day, if only because of the fact that this day was sanctified in the people of Israel. To say, if for Israel Yom Kippur is the holiest, then God also set his heart on it and tests them before they go beyond the law. This is how myths work, always. And Gershom Sholem has already written that we, the scholars of Kabbalah, are no longer able to innovate in its teachings despite our knowledge, and this is because we no longer believe in it as a living myth. It is available on the Internet for every reader.
https://mikyab.net/%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%9D-%D7%A9%D7%9C-%D7%A8%D7%9E%D7%96%D7%99-%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9C-%D7%90%D7%95-%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9C-%D7%91%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%98%D7%90-%D7%98%D7%95/
4. You make Shabbat a feast for your campers in a yeshiva with cakes and drinks to let them know that your private providence is a bluff. :
You take a spiritual custom and with the same tools you try to weaken people's faith, and this without proof. This reminds me of all those who studied Sugia with a cigarette on Shabbat, or ate Tsolnet in a Tel Aviv restaurant on Shabbat, as well as their friends on kibbutzim who had forbidden relations precisely while wearing tefillin. It's all the same principle. Let's celebrate permissiveness with the tools of a tourist. And on the same issue. Come on yourself, you are cold in faith, you have never had spiritual/mystical experiences (you can search for your testimony on the website). This is legitimate. But you took Seder boys, who will soon be enlisting in the army, and the only thing that will comfort them in a trench in Gaza, in the middle of a battle, is faith in the power of prayer, the call to Father: "Save me!", this is the consolation and this is the stronghold. But you, with all your scholarly-philosophical weight, almost enjoy (Sabbath pleasure!) destroying the world and the children of believers, without having any justified evidence for it. Simply because you don't think so. Just like all your scientific friends who enjoy waving that there is no free choice (because it violates sacred determinism) because they don't think so! This is an uneducational, insensitive, and inappropriate act:
"Another story was in Didi (they prepared the envelopes). One night I was returning in my car with my entire extended family (I was treating a woman and six dwarfs) from a family event…our car went silent, and as I found out immediately afterwards, it was not drivable. It was 1:00 in the morning in Gedera, with the entire family (eight people) stuck on the road to Yeruham. What do we do? How do you transport eight people at such an hour to Yeruham, and…don't worry, the story is just beginning. We hadn't yet had time to digest that there had been an accident here, and already (!) a neighbor from Yeruham (!) was passing by us (!) with a large (!) empty (!) car. He stopped (!) and gathered us all into it, and after we left the key with the driver, we drove home with him happily and comfortably. Each exclamation point in the sentences above marks another miracle, as will be explained. During the trip, it became clear to us that the same man, a local political activist from Yeruham who travels to Jerusalem every few days and knows the road well, and yet for some reason he lost his way back (!), had missed the interchange. To the Troon (!) and ended up in Ramla (!) against his will. He had no idea how to get there or where (even before the era of Waze), and he found himself in a fence (!). When he passed us (!) just in time (!) his wife said to him, “Aria, here’s the Avraham family, stop, maybe they need something” (!). He told her he saw no reason to stop, because it wasn’t yet clear that there had been an accident and that we needed help (it was literally the second the incident happened). She convinced him (!) and he stopped (!), and the rest is history (?).
Your faithful servant arrived at the yeshiva in Yeruham and, as is customary in such cases, made a Shabbat feast for his students on plain cookies and Crystal Coke. There he explained to the astonished ears of the listeners that he did not see this as a miracle or wonder, but rather as a completely statistically possible event. After all, there were thousands of people who got stuck at night on their way home and were not saved. There is a small chance that in such a situation one of them would be saved by chance, so that one was me. What does this prove? I think mainly the fact that statistics work. Until I have examined a wide sample of events to see how many times people got stuck and were not saved, I cannot say anything about the probability of something like this happening and whether there was anything surprising here (God's hand, private providence, or a divine decree)."
https://mikyab.net/%D7%97%D7%95%D7%A7-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%98%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%94-%D7%9C%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A9%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%94-%D7%95/
The style, the overlap, the childishness, the pleasure of debunking myths, and everything in rabbinic language - it is what irritates your many followers and those who listen to your lesson. I personally would not want to be such a person when I am great in Torah. Some of her ways are the ways of pleasantness, purity of speech, naked tongue. See Shatz Levinger from my regular readers. What language is chosen? How beautiful his actions and words are. Well, I did not ask you to be different like him, your character is different. But writing like a Facebook focaccia is also not a level to be proud of, even if it is sometimes fun as an anonymous writer on Talkback (my own account). As a rabbi and a beacon of Roni - like it or not - there is a decency that requires it.
I would recommend that you take a day off, store up all the criticisms that come from the heart against your writing. Go into solitude, sit with a cigarette and think. Let things sink in. This is the only chance you have. Your lovers, your loved ones, your students, are the ones who can enlighten your eyes (and I believe you desire this, as this column suggests). The dosimeter graph reveals that you are on the decline. There are quite well-known scenarios for these things in history. Elisha ben Aboye, Avner of Burgos, and in our generation Yaron Yadan and Nir Stern.
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9F_%D7%99%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%9F
https://nirstern.wordpress.com/about/
Honestly, many people think that way about you. After you dismissed God from his heavenly ministry, what else is left? Most of the population doesn't really believe. There was a nucleus at Sinai. Well, that's okay. Who will bet and who will you stick to that in a year or two (when you finish reading on your own the material on biblical criticism that you are currently busy with - as your testimony on the website) this nucleus won't dissipate into the sky and leave us all running to hear your musings in your class, I replied, around a fine cigar and a Tsolant. Do you think I exaggerated?! You have no idea how many of my friends who listen to your lesson think that way about you. All the hints and Freudian slips of the tongue raise the concern - that we may all be deceived and you will remain a desirable and beloved scholar who advances things, who beautifies the religious and moral world, and not just destroys and shatters it with the thump of a keyboard
I love and appreciate you very much.
age
And I wrote the following.
Hello Gil.
Thank you for the work and all the comments. I will try to briefly address:
1. First, I will preface my writing that I allow myself more with regard to rabbis of our generation. Indeed, the question of the dividing line is a good question. Indeed, I do not have much confidence in the Haredi Torah greats. What can be done, this is the situation. This is not an expression of disdain but an expression of personal opinion. I do not identify with their way of thinking and their decisions, and I think they are based on very problematic thinking. I said this because people use them as a basis of authority to formulate positions that are contrary to my own. Therefore, I write that I do not see them as such a basis. Incidentally, from the same places come expressions of disdain that are much harsher (and much less justified) toward rabbis from other directions.
The passage you quoted in paragraph 1: “I do not have much trust in the rabbis who are considered great in the Haredi world. I have lost it, unfortunately (or fortunately). I assume that these are good people with good will, and some are also great rabbis (although I usually do not appreciate their way of thinking very much), but unfortunately they do not know the world in which they live and are led to their decisions by small, self-interested businessmen who are looking for employment for them instead of studying in a kollel (which is quite boring for them).” I completely stand behind it and do not see a problem with it. This is a factual and completely reasoned description of my position.
2. Regarding overlapping, I don't see it as a problem. It's what you do when there's something you have to do but don't identify with. Indeed, legume is ridiculous nonsense. I didn't say a word about anyone here. I expressed a position on the matter itself, and the conclusions about those who advocate it are left to the reader. By the way, I think many of those who strictly adhere to legume agree with me. But they don't do it out of political and educational considerations (against the reform. Which I disagree with). Therefore, no conclusion can be drawn from what I wrote about the custom itself about those who adhere to it.
3. I really didn't see a problematic expression here. Indeed, this is a somewhat childish thought in my opinion, and I think almost all of us feel that way. It's a fact that we don't feel the obligatory farts. Incidentally, Maimonides already spoke in his introduction about the attitude towards the legends of the Sages, and he himself wrote that those who see them as they are are a plague of fools. Again, the conclusions about those who do think so are not necessary. Perhaps he says this for the needs of education and policy (which I disagree with). The problem is that we continue with this myth even though it no longer really works. Perceiving the myth in this way and continuing to behave in accordance with it is the childishness I was talking about.
4. I strengthen their faith, not weaken it. People who base their faith on childish beliefs are likely to abandon it (everyday actions). As I wrote in one of the columns, in an approach that perpetuates these myths we are left with the less courageous and more childish adults and lose the better ones (of course a generalization).
I can understand those who fear losing their faith. I fear too. But what to do? Ignore the truth and dismiss it like last year? I refuse to let fears dictate the way I think and its limits. This is one of the principles of my perception. As I said, in my opinion it brings more benefit than harm.
I also do not accept recommendations aimed at saving me from heresy or "heresy." I have no interest in that. If I am an infidel, then that is what I am. I try to find out the truth, and of course I do not necessarily succeed. But I refuse to subordinate thinking to the desired conclusions. If things do not "save" me in someone's eyes, there is nothing to be done. In my opinion, this approach itself is of great value, and it is very important that someone presents it within the normal discourse that surrounds us and does not really manage to deal with problems. People continue to say the same thing as last year even though the problems are different and the people are different.
Thanks again for the comments. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I didn't take them into consideration (certainly in terms of style and how it is perceived. It's clear to me that even if the explanations I gave are correct, it doesn't necessarily mean that the readers understand it in such a way that it affects them in the way I wanted). I did take them in and I will think about them. Although without a cigarette...
Gil, forgive me, but you are exaggerating a bit. As someone who has been following the rabbi's writings since mid-2002 (early 2002) and met him for the first time only a year ago and has spoken with him several times since then, I can tell you that this is the same person. The early rabbi was simply more innocent and went through a process of maturation (in my opinion, not completely; he went through a process of transition from childhood to adolescence and not yet to full adulthood), and after you read the new books, you will understand that the line that guided the rabbi in "Two Carts" still partly guides his new views (in the new books), but the style, in my opinion, he acquired from the Lithuanian Haredi world itself, where disdain for the Tish (who are not from their stream) was acquired with mother's milk.
I personally grew up in religious Zionism and I fully admit that all the expressions you mentioned were very jarring to me when I first encountered them (and I was still studying in Gush, but even in Gush in my time, no one spoke such language). But you should know that in many things the rabbi simply said things that I thought myself and buried deep in my heart because I felt ashamed that they even crossed my mind, let alone ashamed to acknowledge them, for example, like the whole issue of the ultra-Orthodox Tahs, the leaders of the Haredi public. Six years ago, I read the rabbi expressing himself in relation to the answer of the Steifler who was asked in relation to a question in Torah and science, which Steifler answered to think about how the Gra got along with it, and the rabbi expressed himself that his answer was "infantile". At first, it was a bit jarring to me and I don't really know what Steifler meant, but that's simply the exact wording. In everything related to understanding reality (especially scientific and modern), the Haredi rabbis are simply children. It's a harsh but accurate wording.
Thanks to the rabbi, all these thoughts were released from my heart back into my head (but not yet onto my tongue for good reasons), and that alone gives me a sense of sanity.
The religious Zionist Torah world is still in its infancy, and therefore there is a feeling that we have more respect for the Torah. But this is not true, and we have already seen in the last three or four years the outbreak of the war of the Haredi rabbis against the liberal ones. And in the future, the gloves will come off and such expressions will fly in the air.
And forgive me (and forgive me Shtsel Levinger himself) Shtsel Levinger's words are not a good example. His words are not at all nice and contain much of the slurred and brainwashed style of a classic yeshiva graduate (Zionist, meaning one who still has feelings of inferiority to a Haredi yeshiva graduate). Don't be fooled by the subtlety. It's not a nice style. It's exactly the style that invites the rabbi's cynical style. Shtsel is right-wing and the rabbi is left-wing (the cynicism is intended to take the hot air out of the balloon that inflated on the right). The truth is the middle, but the middle is not empty respectability (which is what you think the Tahach should boast about) that is the lot of 95 percent of rabbis today.
What I am saying is that you should thank God for the existence of the Rabbi, especially in the current phase, and pray for his continued existence (which, according to the Rabbi, may have no value in this prayer…). I have several friends who became rabbis and I can tell you that these are real calves. The Rabbi's heresy is worth 100 times more than their "faith". I personally believe that he will reach his mature phase at some point in the future (even if at some point along the way he makes us Elisha ben Abouya). But one must not rush maturation.
I came here by chance while searching for something else.
I just have to comment that judging someone's faith or non-faith solely based on how they dress and how they behave in terms of social affiliation is, in my opinion, very superficial.
Also, including the four names you mentioned in Hada Mehta is a very superficial argument. Dividing who is "like us" is certainly okay in the eyes of the Creator, and who is not - not.
I wish it were that simple. Instead of standing alone before the Creator who created each person as an individual, and constantly searching and asking and learning and choosing and bearing responsibility, and after all continuing to not know and worry and fumble and monitor his path and the like in the Mishnah, it is much easier to belong to a group and be "we" instead of "me", and thereby resolve the obligation of choice and experience for which our soul descended into this world.
Regarding:
"And remain a desirable and beloved scholar who advances things, who beautifies the religious and moral world, and not just destroys and shatters it with the thump of a keyboard."
In my opinion, if someone destroys and shatters, when from his perspective at least he is seeking truth and not intentionally trying to tease and dismiss, you can deal with his words, and whether you agree or disagree vehemently or see that there are things you don't want to think about at all, in any case you grow and broaden your horizons, discover something new, and become more of a person with choices and more of a thinker, and in this you become more of a 'person' according to the Maimonides' definition, which is to have reason, and according to the Maharal's definition, which is to have free choice.
Whoever embellished things that I had already thought so before did not bring me any benefit. On the contrary, he kept me from examining my ways anew, and as the Mishek of the Mashi, who would not be like a horse washed, and would have to inspect his ways and actions every day anew. And Rabbi Yochanan, after the passing of Reish Lakish, did not take comfort in the companionship that would bring support to his words, but rather wanted someone who would make everything he said difficult with 24 questions.
Hello Rabbi Michi.
I agree with your words and your evidence, but I still have a difficult point. Chazal said in the Shabbat passage, "If the Rishonim are like angels..." then in certain matters we do view them as angels (or you could say, "Oh, my God, you also disagree with this article, and you bring evidence against Rava bar Zimona (the author of the aforementioned article) and the furnace of Akhnai, but nevertheless we found an opinion that agrees with those who disagree with you regarding the Rishonim, since it agrees with the second opinion, which is less respectful...).
And would you say the same thing to a person whose level of understanding is extremely low, that he should do as he understands, even if it is clear to him that the problem lies with him, since we have opened this place to all nations?
The question of whether the Mimra Rishonim as angels is factual or normative (which is how one should treat them and accept their teachings). Chazal use expressions in this way. For example, they say about the rabbinic law that it is the LBM, only to strengthen it (this is what Tos writes). Its details and generalities from Sinai are a normative, not a factual, determination.
Beyond that, even if they are angels, it does not mean that they cannot be disputed. This is the value of autonomy. See also Rambam, Ref. 2, Mahal' Memariam, and Ks. M., ibid.
As for who should decide for themselves, in my opinion everyone is responsible for their decisions and is not allowed to make decisions for another person. Perhaps the only exception is someone who is not sane or insane (without legal responsibility). Every person has the knowledge he received from his Creator. We are not supposed to replace him. He serves his Creator and he should make his decisions. Furthermore, even if we make decisions for him, it will turn out that he is serving God in error, and it is doubtful how valuable his work is. After all, there is a "knowingly knowing" argument here that nullifies any contract (if he had known, he would not have served God. Therefore, his work is in error). This is the danger in any holy lie (see column 21). Of course, one has to be careful with all of this, since it can be said that if the real truth is that there is an obligation to serve God, then we can go ahead and say that if he knew everything and reached the absolute truth, he would want to serve God. But this is a question of whether a double mistake that offsets the absence of a mistake is considered. And there is a difference in all of this.
So if I understood correctly in a certain respect, do you agree that the first ones should be treated as angels? So how is this attitude expressed?
PS (regarding the reference to the discussion about smartphones) The 'education' that defines that you should not deviate applies to every generation, and says that the rabbis should go around and fix things according to their opinion. Are you explaining that in our day his words apply to a community rabbi? So the root of the mitzvah that gives it there (multiple disputes) does not apply (since there will still be several communities). Or do you disagree with him?
Their authority must be accepted within the limits set by the law. The Talmud has absolute authority, the first and last have status but not absolute authority.
I disagree with the teaching. Simply put, authority was given only to the Sanhedrin or to those who are agreed upon by the entire public (like the Gemara).
In the Book of Leviticus, Moses was called
To Reuven – Greetings,
Rabbi Zira's words about 'the firstborn as sons of angels' were stated in the Gemara (Shabbat Kib) in the context of the Shekla and Tariya between Rabbi Yochanan and Rabbi Hezekiah, in which the rabbi marveled at his student's ability to 'liken one word to another', and to explain the rabbi's ability regarding a vessel that was punctured and plugged again, and punctured and plugged again, from what the rabbi himself said about a sandal that was broken and repaired and broken and repaired again - that a vessel that was repaired over and over again does not completely return to its original state, but rather 'a new face has come here.'
The student's success in understanding the Rabbi's reasoning by delving into the Rabbi's own words – the Rabbi praised him and said of him: "The law of a man is like an angel," and according to "Icha Damari," the Rabbi said: "The law of a man is like a man in prison."
The rabbi has an advantage in being a link closer to the source in the chain of recipients of the Torah, from mouth to mouth, to Moses from the mouth of the hero. The authentic vessel that has undergone fewer crises has an advantage over the 'second vessel,' in which all the crises and waves of history have already left their mark.
On the other hand, the second sandal, made of 'patch upon patch', also has a virtue, being a 'new face.' His admiration for his rabbi leads him to delve deeper and deeper into his rabbi's teachings, until he finds in his rabbi's words 'new faces' that the rabbi himself had not considered.
He who thinks his rabbi is an ordinary man will not bother and will strive to reach the end of his mind and will remain 'like a horse or a mule, without understanding.' In contrast, he who sees his rabbi as an angel, struggles and struggles, corrects and breaks, until he gains the ability to understand and develop his rabbi's teachings in new directions.
With Shabbat Shalom greetings, S.C. Levinger
Hello Rabbi.
Just to reinforce Gil's claim that many think of you as he wrote - I am writing that I agree with his words.
You are a great believer in the rationality of faith, in synthetics, as opposed to postmodernism, which only dismantles, and yet the feeling you get is that most of your words are a dismantling of existing beliefs.
As a regular reader of your words, sometimes I think that you – with your incredible intellectual ability and analytical talent – enjoy breaking down myths into their components, pointing at the king and saying that he is naked.
I accept that this is what some people think. The question is, what am I supposed to do with it? I've explained, my positions are my positions, and it won't help to define them as heresy. In my opinion, there is a dismantling that is a great construction, and there is a construction that is a dismantling.
Hello Rabbi
Thank you for your great contribution to Torah and wisdom, and yet
I remember in one of the lessons you wrote about Maimonides being naive in that he thought that one could study his Mishneh Torah and not need to study another book (there were other examples, and this is now in my mind, and it was also the most jarring).
It's terribly annoying to me.
I don't remember which lesson it was, maybe it was in the series by Rabbi Gedaliah Nadel.
I don't remember where it was either. But this statement is truly naive. I'm not even needed here. Just look and see if students are really satisfied with Rambam and move on to study philosophy or if they also turn Rambam into a subject that they deal with and debate and argue about. Is the statement that some sage is naive offensive? Is it an inappropriate statement? I don't think so.
After reading everything that has been said here, I have gotten to know you and your opinions better. And indeed, these things are terrible and horrible to every Jewish ear and mind with a little faith. But in fact, this is the inner truth of everyone, even when they do not express what they think out of fear of being perceived as Epicurus or a rebel, etc.
And as a real man, I have a problem keeping my honest thoughts in my stomach (it's like poison bubbling up inside).
And despite the difficult way of expressing this, this is my position and opinion.
And a question arises for me: This situation does not exist among the Karaites, Ethiopians, etc.… They are not influenced by science regarding Halacha and they hold to tradition without controversy. The things are clear. Whoever is secular is secular and whoever is Jewish is Jewish.
Compared to our Judaism today... even those who want to be Jewish and not a heretic... cannot find a place to belong due to the multitude of opinions and disagreements that stem from different disputes and interpretations. A point to ponder. Especially since no one really knows how absolute the tradition of the Toshba is. (As you mentioned, there are mistakes and there is also a lot of missing information)
On the 3rd of Nissan 77
To Daniel – Greetings,
On the contrary, with so many opinions and methods, everyone finds their own 'niche' and yet remains within a 'framework', when surprisingly, with all the diversity, there is a common basic infrastructure.
You will enter the minyan of the 'Mizrochnikim' in Beit HaKerem and you will enter the minyan of the Hasidim of Stamar in Mea Shearim – here they may wear shorts and a 'kippah like an olive', and here they will wear a hat and a kaputah, but the prayer is the same prayer, the Torah scroll is the same Torah scroll. And the holidays fall on exactly the same date, and this after two thousand years of dispersion.
This is the unifying power of the Oral Torah, which preserves a common 'hard core', while allowing room for diversity and flexibility around the common core.
Best regards, S.C. Levinger
It's enough to give an example of what you wrote in the previous post.
1
A scholar and a learned man understands that there is no claim that is beyond doubt. Even belief in God is not certain…
An educated and open-minded person knows that even what appears in the written Torah is uncertain. Perhaps these are later additions? Perhaps it was not given from Sinai at all? After all, there is no certainty about anything. These are all our conclusions, and therefore they should be taken with limited certainty….
Yechiel, the question is what do these examples demonstrate? Indeed, nothing is certain. Is this inappropriate or blatant speech? Is it not true?
I'm just reinforcing my opinion that the problem is not in the form of expression but in the content. I did accept Yishai's comment that the form of expression can sometimes sharpen or blunt the responses to the content.
Although I don't see anything wrong with these comments. Cynicism is completely legitimate and even my little ego uses it. At the author's request, I removed them.
Another example based on what is written here. Compare the following wordings:
"The Maimonides was naive when he said that..."
"That's a naive statement"
"There is something naive in this statement by Maimonides"
Of course, you can want to sharpen, but if you want to dull, I think it's possible.
There is indeed a difference.
Hello and greetings, Mikhi, for your information, there are slight differences in prayers. For example, in Djerba and Tunis.
In prayer customs... and this is not an example, because the Arabs also pray the same prayer... and it doesn't matter what the externals are at all. Regarding the Torah scrolls... To this day I have not understood if there is really one Torah scroll for everyone without differences. To the best of my knowledge, there are differences in the form of writing and flavors between the Yemenites and the other communities. In addition, about a year ago I read online about an ancient Torah scroll from Georgia that has a tradition up to the first or second verse (I don't remember exactly). And the information about it has disappeared from the internet, but in any case they determined that it is invalid... What is certain is that nothing is certain... and therefore darkness will cover the land and mist over the nations and we simply need to turn to the sages who lived in past generations and hold on to innocent faith with God.
And let's assume that we served God not exactly as He wanted... Will we be sued for that in the next world? And if we assume that there is no next world... Is there anything more enjoyable than studying Torah? More enjoyable than this tremendous wisdom? Which contains philosophy, spirit, such tremendous knowledge in addition to the studies of Halacha and the legends of the Sages that shape us?
The only thing that really bothers me is the matter of tradition.. without tradition.. the Torah is no different from Harry Potter..
Both are beautiful and moving books, full of wisdom and morals. Only Harry Potter is written as fiction, and the Torah scroll has a tradition and a people that survived, as written in the Torah scroll. All the prophecies came true.
And indeed there is a problem when there is a witness with a completely different tradition... the Ethiopians and the Karaites. In addition, there were the Sadducees and the Bethuselites.
Etc. This can go on and on, and therefore there is no knowing where the truth is… In my humble opinion and even my lack of knowledge, I would say that the Karaites are closer to the truth… because they are close to the Karaites… and we are close to the rulings of the sages in every generation. They rely on the word of God and we rely on the words of the sages. And so on… The leadership of Beta Israel is so harmonious and amazing that there are no unnecessary halachic questions, and this is amazing. The connection to God and the laws that He commanded. And again darkness will cover the land and mist will cover the nations… I will have to live in doubt until the day I die or until the coming of the Messiah. And I am with you, I can say 1000 more times that I believe in the coming of the Messiah, but it is not truly from the heart… because it depends on our actions. We fix the world with our own hands by keeping the commandments. And in the Six-Day War we won without a Messiah. We survived the Holocaust without a Messiah. We survived the 2,000 years of exile without a Messiah. (Unlike the false messiahs who caused harm). Everything is under the supervision of God, blessed be He. We must stick to the sages and with God's help we will discover the truth. Until then, we must not abandon the Torah or even a single mitzvah, because we do not know the magnitude of the reward of a light or severe mitzvah.
If I'm completely wrong, I'd love to hear your opinion, Miki 🙂
To Daniel
Regarding the S.T., there are no significant differences between the denominations. The differences in writing do not hinder even from a halakhic perspective. The differences in wording are very few, and are only a halakhic question, whether one writes "injured and oppressed" or "dekha," questions that are not at all relevant in terms of the reliability of the tradition.
The Karaites are not at all close to the literal interpretation of the Bible, certainly no more than the Sages, as anyone who reads their writings knows.
The question of who brought us back to the land, whether it was the Messiah or someone else, is completely irrelevant. The main thing is that the word of our God, which he promised 3300 years ago, was fulfilled, as were the main words of the prophets.
Reason should never be abolished, but it wouldn't hurt to know that there are complex issues, and that there are smart people, and this is not the place to offer all the complications, and if you wish, I would be happy to try to sort out some of the complications via email.
Yes, I would be happy if Yechiel would sort out the complications via email.
Is there a way to send a personal email here? Or do you want to write me your email?
Try exchanging emails through Oren, the site editor. You can contact him through 'About'.
Best regards, S.C. Levinger
bboycrusher@gmail.com
Very nice things.
Let us pray for his honor, "naked in knowledge," that the side of "and they make themselves like beasts" will also be strengthened in him, and that the two matters will be in harmony... (See Orot Yisrael 8)
The question is, will prayer help? 🙂
Good luck with things.
There is one point I would like to read your reflection on. You write about the mistakes of the ancients. The way of our ancestors in the Beit Midrash was often to leave the necessary for study.
Where is the line drawn between saying that a certain opinion in the Rishonim/Ha'Acharonim/Chazal is correct and saying that it is an error?
It's hard to say. Sometimes it's just polite language, but sometimes a person is truly unsure. Language is part of the trend to maintain the status of the ancients as infallible. I oppose this trend both because it is wrong and because it is harmful. Therefore, when there is something that clearly seems to me to be a mistake, I write about it as a mistake.
Most commenters seem to agree with the claim that a direct and aggressive style expresses respect. (Unlike a museum)
In my opinion, this indicates that the commenters are naive and stupid people who bought this weak and unconvincing argument.
Do any of the commenters think that the wording in the previous sentence indicates any "respect" or "feeling at home" I have towards the commenters?
This is an argument that calls for the word "respect" in a style that is clearly disrespectful. I would expect the rabbi to explain what "disrespect" is in his opinion, since anything can be excused in this way.
And I also very much agree with what was said, that even if the rabbi truly does respect, what is clear to the readers is that the rabbi does not respect.
(I truly respect the rabbi and the commenters, I wrote this to clarify the point)
Most commenters seem to agree with the claim that a direct and aggressive style expresses respect. (Unlike a museum)
In my opinion, this indicates that the commenters are naive and stupid people who bought this weak and unconvincing argument.
Do any of the commenters think that the wording in the previous sentence indicates a “respect” or “feeling at home” that I have towards the commenters?
This is an argument that calls for the word “respect” in a style that is clearly disrespectful. I would expect the rabbi to explain what “disrespect” is in his opinion, since anything can be excused in this way.
And I also very much agree with what was said, that even if the rabbi truly does respect, what is clear to the readers is that the rabbi does not respect.
(I truly respect the rabbi and the commenters, I wrote this to clarify the point)
(To the website editor, the comment was accidentally misplaced.)
I just wanted to clarify a few things:
1) Regarding your attitude towards Maimonides, you wrote here: https://mikyab.net/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%A8%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%A9%D7%91%D7%AA-%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9C/
"For some reason, most Gentiles don't think he's such an important philosopher that it's worth studying him, at least nowadays." I understood from the context there that you identify with what most Gentiles think, was I wrong?
2) I assume you don't hold Rabbi "Y. Y." in the same way that you hold the Rambam, and neither do I. And he certainly said things that were very incorrect, to say the least. Is what you wrote here:
https://mikyab.net/%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%95%D7%90%D7%A0%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%93-%D7%9E%D7%A4%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99-%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%91-%D7%99%D7%A6/
Also describes the attitude of someone who sits with him and studies?
3) When you write with 'contempt' towards politicians from all kinds of parties, are we wrong about that too and do you really not intend to disparage them but rather speak as someone who sits and studies with them?
1. Indeed. In my opinion, he is not a very important philosopher either.
2. In the future, please explain your conversation (I only understood after reading section 3). No.
3. No.
1. So I can understand why people think you disparage Rambam. In my opinion, he did see himself as an important philosopher, and that this is even more important than anything he did in the world of halakhic law. The statement that his philosophy is mediocre is indeed a very harsh criticism.
2-3. Sorry for the lack of clarity, I will try to correct it in the future. Regarding the main point, if on the same blog you are accustomed to harshly criticizing both Rabbi Y. Y. and all kinds of politicians, people might think that your attitude towards Maimonides and Rabbi Y. Y. is similar, although it can really be seen from the tone that it is not exactly the same.
Regarding the importance of Maimonides as a philosopher.
Maimonides emphasized in several places in his writings that he does not deal with philosophy, and he has no statement or innovation in this regard.
He only came to interpret the Torah. It's like claiming that Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik wasn't a great philosopher, or Einstein or Yitzhak Perelman. He was a man who worked in a different discipline. It's like saying that Maimonides wasn't a great pianist. This is a misleading statement. Because if you want to assess a person's greatness, you have to examine it within the discipline in which he worked.
For example, in the teacher's confused state:
"Know that in this article of mine I did not intend to compile anything in natural wisdom or to explain the matters of divine wisdom according to some opinions or to bring an example of what the example comes from them; nor did I intend to explain and deduce the nature of the wheels, nor to state their number, because the books connected with all this are sufficient; and if they are not sufficient in a matter of the matters, what I say in that matter will not be better than anything that has been said. And indeed, the purpose of this article was – what I already informed you of in its opening, and it is in the light of religious doubts and the demonstration of hidden truths that are above the understanding of the multitude. And for this reason it is fitting for you, when you see me speaking about the establishment of separate minds and their number or the number of wheels and the reasons for their movements or the truth of the matter of matter and form or the matter of divine abundance and the like in such matters, that you do not think or it occurs to you that I indeed intended to prove that philosophical matter alone, because these matters have already been stated in many books and the example comes in the truth of most of them; but I do intend to remember What will clarify the doubts of the Torah's interpreters in understanding it, and many more connections in knowing that matter that I will explain: And you already knew from the beginning of this article that it will indeed be written in light of what can be understood from the 'Act of Genesis' and the 'Act of the Chariot' and in light of doubts that hang over prophecy and the knowledge of God. And every chapter in which you find me speaking in light of a matter in which the example of it in the wisdom of nature or a matter that has already been explained in the example of divine wisdom or it has been explained that it is more worthy of all that is believed or a matter that hangs over what has been explained in the studies - know that it is necessarily the key to understanding a matter from the books of prophecy - I want to say their parables and secrets -; and for this reason I have remembered it and explained it and shown it to what will benefit us from knowing the 'Act of the Chariot' or the 'Act of Genesis' or to explain the essence of the matter of prophecy or to believe in true knowledge of the Torah beliefs.
There is no philosophical statement in The Teacher of the Perplexed that is not written almost verbatim in Aristotle or Al-Farabi or Ibn Sina or Ibn al-Zayg (better known as Ibn Baja). Even without familiarity with them, one can see that editor Schwartz shows room for sources.
If there were even one new philosophical statement by Maimonides, then it would be possible to evaluate his philosophical thinking and learn from it about Maimonides as a philosopher. But the fact is that there is none.
He knew the words of the aforementioned philosophers well and precisely, and for this purpose there were philosophers who used his writings, and for this reason they valued him in the philosophical world. But they did not learn any of his philosophy from him, because there is none. And as he himself testifies, this is so. Therefore, it is inappropriate to talk about his importance as a philosopher.
The Bewildered Teacher has enormous innovations in studying the inner workings of the Torah according to his own unique method, but not any renewed philosophical content in the sense of general philosophy, outside of the Beit Midrash.
I didn't understand your division between 'general philosophy outside the Beit Midrash' and 'study of the inner Torah,' and in my opinion, Maimonides also did not divide between them and did not place general philosophy outside the Beit Midrash.
It is certainly true that most of the philosophical statements in the teacher are not innovations of Maimonides, but he also has something to say about them of his own. One example is the rejection of Aristotle's proofs for the pre-existence of the world.
To Rabbi Michi,
You have written in several places that you believe there is one truth. If so, we are obligated to ascertain the absolute truth in its purity (assumption a).
On the other hand, you wrote in this post and elsewhere that for you the only thing that obliges you to understand the Torah is reason, and therefore you will not hesitate to disagree with all the first and last words if it is clear to you that the truth is with you according to your understanding (assumption b).
On the third hand, you wrote in this post that you highly value the first and last as people who are mostly full of wisdom and knowledge, etc. (assumption c).
And I stand and wonder how the above three assumptions fit together:
After all, we are seeking the absolute truth (assumption A). To find it, we have two ways – either to rely on our intellect, or to rely on the words of our ancestors. And if path A contradicts path B, it is much more likely that path B is the correct one, because with all due respect to our intellect, the intellect of all the ancients combined certainly surpasses it in wisdom (unless it is a matter related to the change of reality over the generations) (assumption C). So if the absolute truth is important to us – we must follow the path that is more likely to lead us to it, according to the ancients and not according to our intellect! (Contradicts assumption B)
And from another point of view – why base it only on what my mind says in the discussion itself, and not on what that mind itself says, which turns out to be wrong if all the first ones say otherwise.
I would be happy to clarify where I misunderstood what you said.
First, even if I have great respect for someone, it doesn't mean they are immune to mistakes. When I consider my position, I also take into account the opinions and merits of those who disagree, and there may still be situations where I conclude that they were wrong.
But beyond all of this, see my article on autonomy and authority and in the third book of the trilogy, where I explained that the ruling of halakhah is based on two values: truth and autonomy (the obligation to act as I myself understand). I explained there that the value of autonomy instructs me to act according to my own opinion even where it is clear to me that the one who is arguing is much greater than me and is probably the just one. And in my opinion, this is the meaning of the Gemara in the Eruvin that they did not rule on halakhah as the Rabbis did because their friends did not agree with him.
The first claim apparently does not answer my question. I also conclude that I am right and the former are wrong, this is of course according to my personal understanding. I am aware that my personal understanding is limited, and therefore, by weighing all the data, that is, a weighted average of all the opinions according to their relative weight, I come to the final conclusion that the former are right. It is true that they may be wrong, but it is equally possible that I am wrong, and the chance that I am wrong is greater.
I didn't understand the second argument. We'll get along with the judge in Eruvin. I assume that this is not evidence for your method, but rather that you are basing it on your logic, which states that autonomy is critical in halakhic rulings even when it leads to a conclusion that is contrary to the truth.
But what is the logic in claiming this? If we need to fulfill God's will, and His will is the halakhic truth, why would we go against the truth just because it seems right to us?
Unfortunately, I don't have the trilogy yet, so I would appreciate it if you could explain to me in one go the rational basis for your claim. And please don't really push me with the building..
So what you're supposed to do is measure the intelligence of everyone in the world and stick with the smartest one. I assume there's a reasonable chance he won't be Jewish. I see no point in these skeptical ramblings.
Regarding your last question, I have already explained that the halakhic requirement is a combination of truth and autonomy. You can read both in the article and in the trilogy. So I definitely push you to the truth of the building. If you want, read there.
On the 12th of Tevet 5770
In measuring the value of an opinion that attempts to give a renewed halachic or intellectual interpretation of the Torah, one must take into account not only the "intelligence" and general knowledge of the speaker, but first and foremost his greatness in the Torah in study and proficiency, his fear of God and his greatness in the Torah's possessions. Then we will know how to evaluate the owner of the revolutionary opinion, whether he is a "Tana and a Sailer" or perhaps just a "visionary of a man of several years" 🙂
If the man was not recognized as a phenomenal genius who was not recognized by the sages of Israel as 'the garlic peel before him,' there is still room to discuss his arguments if they contain conclusive evidence that refutes the judgment of the sages with whom he disagrees, to the point that, let's say, if they had heard his arguments, they would have 'denied and left.' Naturally, this examination is left to the hands of outstanding sages who have reached the teaching that they will find that his arguments are the clear truth that cannot be denied or challenged.
On the contrary, the one who claims 'autonomy' will come and present his halachic conclusions in a 'tetralogy' that will encompass all parts of the Shulchan Arba' and also the laws of the holy seeds, and 'we will see if the eminent scholars will agree on it and crown it with a crown on their heads.'
Best regards, Shatz
Paragraph 2, line 1
…as a phenomenal genius that all the sages of Israel…
There is also a Gemara, I don't remember its location, which writes about a certain Tanna who said something in the name of his master so that they would receive it from him.
However, it seems that it is not possible for a person to check everything, but rather a person works with trust and, of course, a critical system. That accepts and checks things from wise people, but not everything to the end, but rather it is a collection of information that a person accumulates. And if so, to say something on behalf of a person whom I trust and take them seriously, I still wonder why it is allowed
Hello sir, do you have a rabbi or rabbis who are clear in their approach, who has relied on your method? After all, the entire tradition of transmitting the Torah in the Jewish people was done by a rabbi who transmits to a student (see the first mishnah of Tractate Avot) and so it has been since the transmission of the Torah until our day, and all the books of our rabbis speak about this. None of the famous poskim in the SD, whom the G-d chose to guide the Jewish people throughout the generations, dares to express themselves in the way you express yourself. Not about the first, not about the last, nor about the last of the last. And if in your opinion, the first as human beings, then we…
The path you have chosen, in my opinion, is somewhat reminiscent of "reform"...it is a new method that our rabbis have never adopted. Note that throughout history, there has been no name or remnant left for anyone who has tried to deviate from the path that God, the Holy One, has outlined for us in His Torah - the Written Torah and the Oral Torah, which also includes righteous practices. Anyone who thought he was wiser than the sages of Israel, present and past, was not part of the Torah lineage of the people of Israel.
I assume this is "another comment" that won't sway you, but I feel the obligation to respond rests on me. And if I can save anyone who reads this response from the false opinions that appear here on the site that there is no comfortable spirit of wise men, let them be right at all, and that would be my reward.
I wish you and all of us that we may be worthy of doing the will of God perfectly. Achir.
Although I completely identify with the Rabbi's words on the one hand, it sounds hypocritical to me to say that this path is equal to the path and belief of the Tannais and the Amoraim, etc. After all, generation after generation of the Tannais had already begun to make the Tannais more difficult for the Amoraim, and no Amora dared to disagree with Tanna, and this is due to their antiquity alone (and Maimonides' words on this are very strange). And you will never find a Tanna who disagrees with the Tanna of the generation before him, and we never find Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai and Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda the President discussing the same issue as companions sitting at the same table.
And I would just like to bring to the attention of the people the words of the Rambam, Laws of Idolatry, Chapter 2, Halacha 3
And it is not only idolatry that is forbidden to turn one's mind to, but any thought that causes a person to uproot the main principles of the Torah. We are warned not to bring it to our mind and not to distract ourselves from it and to think and follow the thoughts of the heart, because a person's mind is short and not all opinions can reach the truth for his ignorant ones. If every person follows the thoughts of his heart, he will find himself destroying the world according to his narrow-mindedness. How can he sometimes abandon idolatry and sometimes think specifically about the Creator, whether He is or is not, what is above and what is below, what is forward and what is backward, and sometimes about prophecy, whether it is true or not, and sometimes about the Torah, whether it is from heaven or not, and does not know the standards by which to judge until he knows the truth for his ignorant ones and finds himself falling into sin? The Torah warned about this matter and it is said in it, "Do not turn after your heart and your eyes, which are whores," meaning that each of you should not follow his short-sighted mind and imagine that his thinking reaches the truth? Thus the Sages said, "After your heart is sin, and after your eyes is whoredom." And even though it causes a person to be troubled by the next world, it does not have any scourges in it.
It seems to me that Rabbi Michael Avraham has already answered this – that such a halakha is apparently only relevant to those who already believe and are committed to the Torah + who consider themselves to be short-sighted, and hence it follows that those who do not believe from the start – the authority of Maimonides (or any other Torah giant, whoever he may be) cannot oblige them to clarify the main points of their faith, etc., and on the other hand, those who are convinced that they have the appropriate philosophical skills, then Maimonides did not say anything about them either.
Sorry for the mistake in wording the response above, I meant "Rambam's authority cannot oblige him to *not* inquire," etc.
I have no idea what you're referring to here. Chinese.
I think my words are clear, but I will repeat the point. Although it sounds correct to me from the perspective that one cannot be forced to believe that my opinion against the opinion of the ancients is worthless, the opinion of the Sages is clearly not so (although they may be wrong about this), for we see in both the Talmud and the Mishnah that the latter is not permitted to disagree with those who preceded him, and we have no sufficient reason for this except what the Sages themselves said (Eruvin, page 35, page 1): "Rabbi Yochanan said: The son of the first is like the entrance to a hall, and the son of the latter is like the entrance to a temple - and we are like the hole of a scythe needle." In other words, the opinion of the latter is not important against the opinion of the ancients because the ancients were greater in their knowledge.
I am mainly referring (although I think this point is fundamental) to Rabbi Michael's statement at the beginning of the column.
"There are of course also formal considerations of authority, such as the authority of the Sanhedrin or the laws of the Talmud, which are halachically impossible to dispute."
And I come to say that this is not true, the reason why it is forbidden to disagree with the Bavli is not because of any halakhic matter, the reason why it is forbidden to disagree with the Bavli is because, according to the opinion of the Sages, the opinion of the latter regarding the former is a very limited opinion, and although the Rambam did interpret it that way in his introduction to the book, his interpretation is very new, since in his opinion only the Mishnah that was arranged by a Rabbi is valid, and not the Baraitot, and there is also no reason for there to be an exception regarding special Amoraim such as Rav, and this also does not explain why we never find Rabbi Yehuda disagreeing with Rabbi Eliezer, or Rava disagreeing with Rav.
We certainly found that they disagree, even on conditions from time to time. And what they wrote in great praise of the first should not be read literally, but is a literary expression of the fact that they should be flattered about them as if their words were spoken from the mouth of a man thicker than our waists. The same should be interpreted as the sayings that everything was given to Moses at Sinai, which is of course not true.
In any case, even if you were right, there is no relevant argument here. Even if the Talmud did not do this regarding the Mishnah, I do not see why I would not do it regarding the Rishonim or Aharonim. Moreover, as the commentary of the Maimonides and the Kasam (Raphab Memmarim) certainly believed as I did. And so is the opinion of the Sanhedrin, 4:66, whose words were quoted in Khom Si 25.
When a person follows his mind and wisdom, he can fall into many mistakes and obstacles, and come to great evil, God willing. And some have corrupted much, such as the very great and famous wicked, who deceived the world, and it was all because of their wisdom and intelligence. And the essence of Judaism is simply to walk in innocence and simplicity, without any wisdom, and to look at everything he does, so that it may be in the name of God, blessed be He, and without paying any attention to his own honor. Only if there is honor in it, God, blessed be He, will he do it, and if not, then he will not, and then he will certainly never fail.
And even when a person falls into delusions, and there are those whose fall is very, very great, R.L., who fall into delusions and contemplations, and contemplates God, blessed be He, nevertheless the fall and descent is the purpose of the ascent.
For know that the root of all creation is honor, for everything that God created, blessed be He, He did not create except for His honor, as it is written: Everyone who is called by My name and for My honor I created, etc. (Yoma 38). And since everything was created for His honor, blessed be He, it is found that His honor, blessed be He, is the root of all creation, and even though all of it is one, there are parts to all of this in creation, and in each part and part of creation there is in it a special aspect of honor, which is its root, as mentioned above. This is the meaning of (Avot 5:5): The world was created in ten statements, and could not creation be achieved in one statement? Rather, it was created in ten statements for reward and punishment. In each and every statement there is in it a special aspect of honor, which is its root, because honor is the root of all, as mentioned above.
[Likkuti Moharan Torah 12]
The wise man is full of torment.
And the wise man was always full of torment, because he thought that he was an extraordinary wise man and an artist, and a very great doctor. And a certain minister came and commanded him to make him a ring of gold. And he made him a very wonderful ring, and he engraved on it pictures in very wonderful ways, and he engraved there a tree, which was very wonderful. And the minister came, and the ring was not at all beautiful in his eyes. And he was in great torment, because he knew for himself that if the ring with this tree were in Spain, it would be very important and wonderful.
Once upon a time, a great king came and brought a good and expensive stone, which had come from afar. And he brought him another good stone with a drawing, and commanded him to draw like this drawing on the good stone that he had brought. And he drew exactly like the drawing, except that he made a mistake in one thing, which no one noticed, only he alone. And the king came and received the good stone, and it was right in his eyes. And this wise man had great torment: How far does my wisdom reach, and now I have to make a mistake!
And also in the matter of medicine he had torments: when he would come to a patient, and he would give him medicine, he would know clearly that if he went to the patient for life, he would certainly be clearly obliged to be cured of it, because it is a very wonderful medicine. And then the patient died, and the world would say that he died at his hands. And he had greater torments than that. And sometimes he would give medicine to a patient and he would be cured, and the world would say: It was a coincidence. And he was always full of torments. When he needed clothing, he would call the tailor and work with him, until they taught him to make the clothing as he wanted, as he knew. And the tailor adjusted and made the clothing as he wanted, only one wing was wrong in it, and they did not adjust it well. And he was very sorry, because he knew for himself that although it is beautiful here, because they do not understand about it, but if I were in Spain with this impostor, I would be laughed at. And so he was always full of torments.
Tales of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov
"And it has already been explained in the books and in our words in several places, to distance oneself very, very far from reading at all books of philosophical research, and even books of investigation written by great men of our brothers the children of Israel, from which one must also distance oneself very much, because they are very harmful to faith. For our faith that we received from our holy fathers is enough for us, and this is a great rule, foundation, and main thing in the service of God, to be pure and honest, etc., to serve Him, blessed be He, in innocence, without any wisdom or investigation, not at all. One must also distance oneself very much from the wisdom that is in the service of God Himself."
[Likkuti Moharan Tanina]