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Marital Relations After Divorce (Column 512)

A Look at the Application of Talmudic Laws in Our Times

With God’s help

Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.

A few weeks ago I saw a very concise ruling by Rabbi Sherlow regarding the status of a couple who had marital relations after divorce. I thought it appropriate to look at this ruling from a broader, more critical perspective, since it serves as a paradigm for many similar rulings.

The Question and the Answer

A woman turns to him about a partner who is divorced and had relations with his ex-wife after their divorce:

Greetings and blessings.

I started dating a divorced man and discovered that he had relations with his ex-wife after their divorce. To the best of my understanding, this renders them married. I spoke with him about it, but as far as he is concerned he is divorced and will not go back to the Rabbinate to receive another get (writ of divorce). What should be done in such a case, and am I stumbling and causing a man who is considered married to stumble? I myself am divorced and want to start a clean chapter in my life.

Her question is whether she may marry him without his giving another get to his first wife. The partner refuses, arguing that he is divorced and therefore may marry her without a get.

Rabbi Sherlow replied briefly:

Greetings and blessings,

An early Mishnah established that if a divorced man and woman return to marital relations—they are obligated to give a (second) get. It is painful, but you cannot build a home with him without a new get.

All the best and joy,

I found a similar response of his here.

The Source of the Ruling

At first glance this is a clear case, since we are dealing with an explicit Mishnah. Its source is Mishnah Gittin 81a:

“One who divorces his wife and she lodges with him at an inn—Beit Shammai say she does not require a second get from him, and Beit Hillel say she does require a second get from him. When is this? When she was divorced from marriage; but they agree that if she was divorced from betrothal, she does not require a second get from him, because his heart is not familiar with her.”

If a man divorced his wife but they spent the night together in the same room, Beit Hillel assume they likely had relations for the sake of betrothal, whereas Beit Shammai think not. To clarify: Beit Hillel are not saying that the original divorce is void. The original divorce stands, but the assumption is that there was a new betrothal, and this husband effectively took back his divorcee by betrothal through intercourse.

In practice, of course, we rule like Beit Hillel. Thus Maimonides (Rambam), Laws of Marriage 10:18, writes:

“If he secluded himself with her before witnesses—provided that the two witnesses were together—if she had been divorced from marriage, we are concerned that intercourse may have occurred, and the witnesses to seclusion are [considered as] the witnesses to intercourse. For anyone who betroths by intercourse need not have the act before witnesses; rather, he secludes himself in their presence and has intercourse, as we have explained. Therefore, she requires a get out of doubt, and she is doubtfully betrothed. But if she had been divorced from betrothal, we are not concerned, for his heart is not familiar with her.”

For him this is only a get out of doubt, since it is not certain that intercourse actually took place, and even if it did, it is not certain it was intended as betrothal. Beyond that, it is unclear whether we are dealing with a case where the husband and wife admit to having had relations, whether there were witnesses to seclusion, and what the couple say about their intention (for betrothal or not). This is also how it is ruled in Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 149:2.

Two Problems

However, the Magid Mishneh there writes:

“There (81) is the Mishnah: ‘One who divorces his wife and she lodges with him at an inn—Beit Shammai say…,’ and we hold like Beit Hillel in the Mishnah that even if they did not see intercourse we are concerned, and so was ruled in the halakhot. And our master wrote: ‘Provided that there are two witnesses together’—this is obvious, and so it is explicit in the Tosefta: ‘One [witness] in the morning and one in the evening—this was the incident, and they said: She does not require a second get from him.’ And the Rashba wrote: It is reasonable [to say] that this is where he saw the witnesses, but if two saw him from a window and they see him while he does not see them, she does not require a second get from him, for a person knows that one who betroths between himself and herself is not betrothed, even if both admit; therefore, when he had intercourse it was not for the sake of betrothal but merely licentious intercourse.”

He explains that two witnesses to seclusion are required; otherwise, even if we are certain he had intercourse with intent to betroth, at most there were betrothals between the two of them without witnesses. That is not a valid betrothal. In our case, the man says he had relations with his first wife, but the question does not report that there were valid witnesses to seclusion who observed them simultaneously (i.e., not split testimony). Without this there is no concern of betrothal. Therefore, it would seem there is no reason to require him to give a second get, and he may marry her.

But let us assume, at least for the sake of discussion, that there were valid witnesses to seclusion who saw them together. I still do not see on what basis Rabbi Sherlow assumes that their intention at the time of relations was for the sake of betrothal. We should remember that today it is not customary to betroth by intercourse, and in fact the Sages already banned this in the Talmud. It is therefore highly doubtful that the couple’s intent in intercourse was truly for betrothal. Beyond this, recall that the premise of this law is that a respectable person does not have promiscuous intercourse; therefore, if he had relations with her, it was presumably for betrothal. But today we do not betroth by intercourse, and the Sages forbade it and denounced one who does so; it follows that such a person is not particular about the framework of his relations. It is quite doubtful we can presume that if he has intercourse with a woman his intent is betrothal rather than promiscuity. On the contrary: precisely because he is familiar with her (she had been his wife), it is more reasonable that he merely wished to have relations with her outside of marriage.

Remember that the Mishnah itself, and the later decisors following it, distinguish between a divorcee from betrothal and from marriage. With a divorcee from betrothal, whose heart is not familiar with her, we doubt whether he had relations at all. From this one may infer that we are dealing with an assessment of the parties’ intentions; if it is clear to us that their intention was not betrothal, or that relations did not take place, the concern for betrothal does not apply. In my understanding, that is the situation in our case.

A Broader Perspective

Why is this a matter of broader significance? Because at first glance the ruling I propose stands in direct contradiction to the Talmud. May a judge or decisor today go head-on against the Talmud? After all, the Mishnah says that if they secluded themselves there is a concern he betrothed her anew, whereas my claim is that in the described circumstances and in our times this concern is not meaningful.

But this is a factual determination, not a halakhic one. We are dealing with assessments of what the couple did and of their intentions. True, this is not a fact accessible to direct observation, and it is doubtful whether their own statements carry evidentiary weight; still, presumptions (chazakot) were created precisely for such doubtful situations. If I do not know what happened, I follow what reasonable people would do in such a case and my assessment of their intent. “A judge has only what his eyes see.”

Such assessments (what people do and what they intend) are neither halakhic in nature nor universal constants. They can certainly change according to people, circumstances, and prevailing norms, and there is no reason in the world to cling to Talmudic rulings when what is at issue is the assessment of reality or intention. Therefore, even if we rule that in the circumstances before us it is unlikely there was intent to betroth, this is not a deviation from the Talmud’s ruling but rather an application of Talmudic law to a different reality. See a detailed discussion of this in Column 475 and the subsequent columns, where I termed this approach “midrashic conservatism.” Beyond this, at the conceptual level authority does not pertain to factual claims at all. One cannot say a fact is true because an authority said so—that is an oxymoron; hence there is no need to “justify” why we did not deviate from the Talmud. Even if this were a deviation, there would be nothing wrong with it.

Incidentally, I checked online and found a decision of a rabbinical court that states this explicitly (see a summary here). They also cite decisors who require that the couple return to living together for some time (apparently only when there are no witnesses to seclusion, such that the publicity of their living together substitutes for witnesses to betrothal) and that they observe the laws of family purity and halakha. Without this there is no real concern for betrothal, and the presumption that a person does not have promiscuous intercourse does not apply. This teaches us that the courts and their serving judges are not always more conservative than decisors considered “liberal.”

Applications

To conclude, we should treat all Talmudic and halakhic assessments of reality in this way. There are situations in which courts and decisors are very reluctant to implement the approach of midrashic conservatism, due to a mistaken feeling that this entails a “Reform-style” deviation from the Talmud. Take for example (see Column 147 and my article here) the presumption “tav le-meitav tan du”—that a woman prefers any partnership, whatever the price. On its basis, the Sages and most decisors do not apply the doctrine of a contract entered into in error (mekach ta’ut) to betrothal, even if it emerges that the husband is abusive, not sane, fled abroad, etc. It is important to understand that, in terms of contract law—both in halakha and generally—if it emerges that we are dealing with a situation to which one would not have consented had it been known in advance, then that is consent obtained in error and the contract is void. The assumption that a woman is content with any partnership effectively cancels the possibility of applying mekach ta’ut to betrothal, since the assumption is that she would have consented in any case. Applying mekach ta’ut can save agunot and women denied a get (though it is not possible in every case).

It is crucial to understand that the “tav le-meitav” presumption, like any halakhic presumption, is merely an assessment of reality. It is a factual claim—not a law or a norm from Sinai or subject to the authority of the Sages of the Talmud or the Sanhedrin. An assessment of reality is valid so long as it is accurate to the reality at hand. If the reality has changed, there is no impediment to changing this halakhic application, and there is no deviation from the Talmud. And as noted, even if there were a deviation, there would be no problem. Nonetheless, courts are very reluctant to apply mekach ta’ut to betrothal, and the “tav le-meitav” presumption has acquired the status of something like a law from Sinai that must not be touched.

This is, of course, utter nonsense. There is no sanctity to this presumption, and it must constantly be examined against reality—just like the presumption that a person does not pay before the due date, or that a person does not have promiscuous intercourse. These are assessments of reality; even in the time of the Sages they may have been mistaken about them, and certainly there is no necessity to apply them in a different reality. Any reasonable person understands that even today men and women desire relationships and are willing to pay a price for them—this is indeed human nature. But nowadays it is also clear that women are not prepared to pay any price and do not want toxic relationships. In extreme cases there is almost no doubt that a reasonable woman would prefer to remain single. The Talmudic presumption does not hold in our day, at least not in its full scope.

It is quite amazing to me that even an intelligent Torah scholar deeply attuned to modern society and its thought and conceptions, such as Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, once said in a lecture that this presumption came from Sinai and cannot be changed (I once saw an impassioned quotation of his words in a text from the “Kav” camp, designed to defend yet another foolish position of theirs—for some reason, on this point they apparently consider him their guide). Personally, I am quite sure he himself did not believe this nonsense and likely said it against the winds of Reform (holy untruths). See here for his words and a systematic critique of them.

Applying Talmudic law to our times requires a sharp distinction between norms and facts. Talmudic norms are (usually) binding, but its factual assumptions are not. At least on the factual plane, application to our day requires an up-to-date examination of realities on the ground; the Talmudic statement by itself does not suffice.

Back to Our Case

It is strange to me that in his ruling Rabbi Sherlow suffices with citing the Talmudic source, which in itself is inapplicable to the case at hand for the reasons I explained; beyond that, on a principled level it is not applicable to most cases in our day. We have seen that there is no reason to be beholden to the Talmud’s assessments and conjectures about reality. And in the present case, at least as described in the question, in my view there is no real concern of betrothal and they may marry without a get (moreover, the prohibition to take a second wife is only on account of the ban of Rabbeinu Gershom, not an intrinsic prohibition).

32 תגובות

  1. 1. If even in their time it was not customary to consecrate a bride (forbidden under the ban), and yet they ruled that one should fear marriage, doesn't this mean that this law is not necessarily related to presumption?
    2. There is a concept in law of a "decisive presumption", that is, a presumption that remains valid even if it is proven to be incorrect. An example of this is the presumption of knowledge of the law: every citizen is considered to know the law, even if a defendant has positively proven that he was not aware of the section with which he was accused. How can one know which of the sages' presumptions is conclusive, and which is not?

    1. Reminding me of Agnon's beautiful story "Other Faces", I found a link online to a version of it that was printed in one of the newspapers. Agnon describes and explores the possibility inherent in the shared lodging of the deportees, as a way to fix what went wrong between them.
      .https://www.nli.org.il/he/newspapers/dav/1932/12/23/01/article/56?&dliv=none&e=——-he-20–1–img-txIN%7ctxTI————1&utm_source=he.wikipedia.org&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=%22%D7%A4%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D+%D7%90%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%AA%22&utm_content=itonut

    2. 1. First, who told you that this halakha existed even after the boycott? Second, you need to know the prevailing situation in practice, whether there is a concern for kiddushin or not. With us, it simply seems that it does not.
      2. A definite presumption also exists in halakha, of course. Like the presumption of a person's kosherness, which is simply not based on a majority of kosher people but on a person's right to be considered kosher. The presumption of knowledge of the law is not a presumption at all. It is an assumption that requires a person to know the law and its reasons are to not give people an escape from punishment. Therefore, there is no assessment of reality here at all (by the way, as far as I know, if there are circumstances in which the assessment is that he rightly did not know the law, he is exempted). This is a question of guilt, not of facts. The person is seen as guilty even though he did not know the law because he should have known. This is not the case with us. There are no rights or other interests here, but an assessment of reality.

  2. You referred to an article by Rabbi Ohad Pixler (in Hebrew - see his words and a systematic critique of them here)
    He presents a more softened approach than yours, which claims that there are powers that are fixed and do not change and that there are those that do.
    Why do you disagree with this approach?

    1. I explained why not. An assumption is a statement of fact, and facts depend on reality. What needs to be explained here? If there is another example, it should be examined in its entirety (see examples in the first talkback and in my response to it). This is certainly not the case here.

      1. Why not say in some cases, like Rabbi Soloveitchik, that there are assumptions that are not determinations of fact? (And your desire for your husband, for example, will be considered a fact for us and will be nullified if there is no longer any desire for women?)

  3. I did not understand Rabbi Sherlow's opinion
    Even if we assume that the fact that a person does not commit adultery on the grounds of fornication is a binding fact that came down from Sinai, still according to the Talmud there is no problem for a man to marry two women
    So here from a social perspective it is clear that he is not married, and if he is married it is only halakhically and halakhically it is not a problem

  4. Rabbi Micha, until you come to discuss assessments of reality that have changed or not,
    After all, there is a much more serious matter here, and it is that a rabbi is ruling on the Internet in matters of gittin when he does not know what the reality is and probably does not know the halacha either. Every baby knows that witnesses are needed to perform the kiddushin, and without witnesses it is outright prostitution. And this rabbi did not even ask the woman about it and apparently ruled extremely foolishly (because what are the chances that there would have been witnesses there [if it was a one-time event and they did not live together – as we hear from the question]) in such a serious matter. Inconceivable.

    1. Do you know the reality that was there? Maybe he checked with her and the things only briefly went online? For some reason you are allowed to pass judgment on him without checking and only he should check?! I wrote a critique of the ruling but I did not pass judgment on the rabbi (full disclosure: my friend).
      Beyond that, a person who is asked a lot of questions can also answer incorrectly due to too much speed. Rabbi Sherlow answers a lot of questions all the time, and mistakes can happen. He must be well versed in the quality of gittin and kiddushin.

  5. Just to comment on two points:

    a) I don't think the argument that today a person will not sanctify the marriage is any more convincing than the same argument in the last 1500 years.
    Moreover, if this was the concern, then why is it that if a person claims that he did not sanctify the marriage, he is unfaithful? If it is only a matter of the act and the person is unfaithful to deny it, then we could argue that any man who gave a penny worth of money to a woman should divorce her.
    Isn't it more logical to argue that momentary emotional closeness can bring the couple to a momentary agreement to settle down, and therefore we actually have a doubt about the sanctification of the marriage, and there is no discussion here at all of the statistical probability that they agreed on this beforehand in some contract?

    b) The ruling you cited is also related to denying a chance of bastards having a child, so to conclude from it that this is how they would have ruled from the start and not like Rabbi Sharlo seems to me to be completely unnecessary.

    1. The ”momentary consent” is not enough. After all, witnesses must be produced.
      And it is less logical to think that in that moment of ”emotional closeness” he made up his mind about witnesses.

      1. Eitan,
        A. In my opinion, it is much more convincing. But if you don't think so, then the conclusion is that this halakha has been incorrect for two thousand years. That's all. It is a fact that in the time of the Sages, giving a penny did not arouse suspicion, and giving a penny did. Simply because giving a penny is presumed not to be done on the grounds of prostitution, while giving a penny can be given for many reasons.
        B. I really don't care what they ruled. In my opinion, there is no difference. You can see there that this consideration that goes against the Talmud is legitimate for them. If they ruled differently in our case, then they were wrong. That doesn't mean anything.

        Strange,
        You don't have to present witnesses. There should be witnesses. It is customary to appoint witnesses at a wedding when there are many invalid witnesses in the place who can invalidate the consecration. With us, when it comes to witnesses, there is no need to appoint witnesses.

  6. Regarding Rabbi Soloveitchik's words.
    The words were said almost a millennium ago.
    It seems to me that today he too would agree that ”natures have changed.

    1. He did not make a factual claim that the natures are the same. He claimed that this assumption cannot change and came down from Sinai. This is nonsense.

  7. Rabbi Soloveitzik's opinion regarding possessions, etc. was also different from Leibowitz's opinion (this is what I heard him say regarding the law that Israel is not suspected of having committed adultery) and really what is the reason in your opinion that he thought this? (Rabbi Soloveitzik can be said simply because he was conservative and did not want to give a hand to the Reformers, etc., but Leibowitz)
    Are there any rabbis who agree with this ruling by Rabbi Sherlow? It seems like a lack of knowledge and understanding of the issue, since they always needed a pretext for sanctification

    1. Leibowitz and other academics tend to see things as a pretext that is binding regardless of their correctness, because this resolves for them the dissonance between illogicality and obligation. Leibowitz worked hard to separate the Halacha from the world and the facts.
      I don't know. It is clear that a pretext is needed for sanctification, and the Gemara assumes that in such a situation there is such a pretext. Rabbi Charlo knows this well too.

  8. This academic approach, in your opinion, does not hold water? As if it is clear to you that the Sages did not look at the halakha in this way?
    Speaking of this approach of the academics, I once read something interesting by Rabbi Shagar that the fact that educated people like Leibowitz held to this method even though it is clearly unfounded and unreasonable (according to Rabbi Shagar) shows that his faith is so strong that he is willing to hold to clearly unreasonable opinions just so as not to abandon the faith (he brought this as a kind of proof that faith is something internal, etc.)

    1. Even if this indicates a strong belief, these perceptions are still unfounded. I did not discuss the question of how much they believe, but rather these perceptions per se.
      In essence, this indicates one of two things; an inability to seek and find a more reasonable explanation that will withstand criticism, or a lack of courage to draw the necessary conclusions from this lack of logic.
      Option A expresses strong belief and intellectual incompetence. Option B indicates a lack of belief accompanied by a lack of courage/honesty.

  9. In the Rosh Chodesh Cheshvan 1983

    From the ruling of the Petah Tikva court (to which the author of the post linked), it appears that the issue of the presumption that "a person does not, on the pretext of fornication," commits a husband who is suspected of violating prohibitions of marriage, such as the prohibition of divorce, is controversial among the jurists. For example, according to the "Or Shamakh," the reason for the presumption is not only the severity of the prohibition "on the grounds of fornication," but also the likelihood that the husband regrets the divorce and wishes to renew the marriage bond. In fact, the practice of the courts is to require a get even in the case of a husband who is not observant, to require a get from the outset, and only in cases of concern about an anchor or from bastards do they allow it even without a get.

    Therefore, we find that Rabbi Sharlo acted wisely when he advised a woman who wanted to start a ‘clean second chapter’, not to enter into a controversial and complicated halachically complicated relationship. If the intended one truly and sincerely desired a relationship that would give him the choice of his heart ‘clean second chapter’ – he would agree without delay to exempt his previous partner from the harsh divorce. And someone whose ’s stubbornness precedes his love’ – is not a worthy partner for married life.

    With best wishes, Menashe Barkai Buch-Terger

  10. Two questions:
    A. When the Sages said that a person does not commit fornication, etc., they said this even though this is not at all evident. So it is difficult to say that there is any estimate here that truly estimates reality. In addition, we must remember that the Sages were talking about a religious person - there is an argument here that if a person commits fornication, he would probably prefer to do so for the purpose of sanctification rather than for prostitution, because he is a person who cares about halacha to a certain extent. The Sages were not talking about a secular person, for example - someone who does not care about halacha, according to which there may be no party to talk about an estimate. But in their religious religion, who would argue that they did not determine that he commits fornication (as mentioned, assuming that this is not an estimate of reality).
    B. Regarding the case that Rabbi Charlo dealt with - There is a clear assessment there that he is not a husband for the sake of sanctification, apart from what the Rabbi mentioned and other arguments that others have mentioned here, since he has a wife with whom he entered into relations with the aim of marrying her and even continued with her even after he divorced his ex-wife, then he truly desires her and therefore how can I say that there is a party that is a husband for the sake of sanctification? His actions prove that he is a husband because of his instinct.

    1. A. You contradict yourself both physically and mentally. You say that this is not a description of reality (because it is not evident), and you explain that for a religious person this is what he means. In the second part you repeat what I said. So why is this a question for me?
      B. Who told you that he had relations with the second woman before having relations with his first wife? It is possible that the second relationship began much later.

      1. Maran, you are indeed right. I will correct my words, I am writing from several aspects:
        A. Regarding a person not doing it for his own sake, etc.’ – ostensibly the explanation for this is that if you were to ask that person whether he would prefer it to be for the sake of prostitution or for the sake of sanctification, simply the thing that he prefers for the sake of sanctification and this is a presumption of that situation. Therefore, every person who is a husband is actually at this intersection and we always position him as a husband for the sake of sanctification. Therefore, here too we say that he is a husband for the sake of sanctification and not for prostitution (or we say that he is a secular/convert and then he does not care, but this is also not simple because “a person who is a slave to the forbidden and a slave to the forbidden”).
        B. Regarding the Sages' holding, I ask if there is another side to saying that there is no reason for sanctification here because we are dealing with a person who disregards the Halacha, and of such a person the Sages did not speak that he does not want to commit fornication under his pretext and therefore does so under his pretext for sanctification.
        B. I understood, only if this was during the relationship with the second woman, does the Rabbi agree that there is a clear assessment here that this is not a reason for sanctification also because he is in a marital relationship with the second woman?

        1. A. Not true. It is not just a question of the meaning of the birth but of their status after it. A man does not want to find himself married and committed to a woman just to legalize his birth.
          B. I wrote that.
          C. Indeed.

  11. The problem is when it gets complicated. I knew of a case of a woman with children who was in a shelter for battered women, and after receiving a divorce, she got pregnant by her husband. They never lived together again. What would you rule in such a case?

    1. According to your description, she doesn't need a divorce. There were no witnesses, and who knows if it's his son. Beyond that, you need to know them to know whether they intended to have a kiddushin.

  12. As far as I know, there was no doubt about the son, the father took responsibility, and what each of them intended, only they know.
    Do you need the intention of both parties or just the husband?

  13. Kiddushin requires the intention of both. Even the husband's "confession" is not worth much. Who said he was faithful (there is a dispute about whether there is loyalty "to acknowledge" someone who is not married), and who said she was telling the truth that impregnated him and not someone else?

  14. Perhaps this is because of a doubt from the Torah (a man's wife) to a greater extent. (I don't think about Maimonides now), but the assumption is not binding from a doubt but rather from a transition, and today there is only a small doubt as to whether there is any point in this assumption and perhaps because it is most important to be strict and to require a divorce to be a result of a doubt from the Torah.

  15. Does the rabbi have a list (or a source that cites a list) of such assumptions in the Sages and possible implications of challenging the assumption today?
    I assume that a large part will be controversial, but it is intriguing to see how dramatic the practical implications may be.
    Does this phenomenon exist throughout the Poskim, in a historical test?
    In other words, although the world has been changing at a dizzying pace in the last 200 years, there is no reason to assume that between the earliest Tan'im or Amoraim and the latest Rishonim or the earliest Aharonim, various assumptions did not change in reality itself. To what extent does the essential argument that "this is a realistic assumption that is not valid today and therefore the law of the Gemara is changing" exist in earlier halachic sources?

  16. Anyone who can allow a man's wife to marry against the Gemara of Rambam and Shulchan Aruch, claiming that the words of the Gemara are irrelevant and that what is written in the Gemara could be wrong, has no part in the Torah of Moses, just like the Reformers.

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