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What Is a Jew and an Israeli According to Bennett (Column 396)

With God’s help

Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.

In the column before last I discussed Naftali Bennett’s political decisions. In the previous column I addressed religious commitment via Racheli Rotner’s post. I will devote this column to Bennett’s conception of Judaism and Israeliness, as he presents it here (without the preface; see also here). At the end of the column I will return and tie all these together.

My initial inclination was not to agree with the gist of his words (see the series of columns on Judaism, from column 336 onward), and at times I felt like a trainee in a Bnei Akiva activity or a pathetic civics class—an emotional, somewhat childish enthusiasm meant to instill in me certain values. I’m past that age. But for some reason, as I read I found myself identifying quite a bit with parts of it, and that made me uneasy (and even a bit worried). So I thought it appropriate to give it some more thought, and try to delineate the lines of agreement and disagreement, of comfort and discomfort.

Bennett’s Words

I’ll begin with a full quotation of his words:

Jewish-Israelis

===========

Twenty-two years ago, I—a kippah-wearing student at the Hebrew University—met a 20-year-old female soldier, a beautiful education NCO, secular. Her name is Gilat Einav. I remember the first time I introduced her to my late father and to my mother, at a café in Jerusalem. I was very worried about how they would react to me dating a secular woman. After the meal, my mother grabbed me and said: “She’s wonderful! She could be my best friend in the world.” A great weight was lifted from my heart.

**

Twenty-two years later, we built a home in Israel. We have four children. And by the way, my mother and Gilat truly are best friends. We keep kashrut and Shabbat, but Gilat’s family comes to us by car on Shabbat, and together we make kiddush and have a wonderful family Friday-night meal. Many Shabbatot we go to her parents in Moshav Kfar Uriya, and we don’t conduct a kashrut inspection. We simply stroll with Grandma Bracha in the fields, and it’s wonderful.

**

We are Jewish-Israelis.

**

What is a Jewish-Israeli?

A Jewish-Israeli is not tied to the level of observance of commandments, but to a worldview regarding our country. It’s a way of looking at life—a kind of “lens” on reality.

A Jewish-Israeli can be religious, traditional, secular, Hardali (national-Haredi), or Haredi.

Jewish Israelis are Jews who are deeply connected to our roots that are almost 4,000 years old—from Abraham our forefather to this very day.

Jewish Israelis do not judge one another by strictness in observance.

Jewish Israelis accept and love every Jew.

Jewish Israelis understand that every Jew who lives in this land fulfills one central, monumental mitzvah—living in a Jewish state in the Land of Israel!

A Jewish-Israeli sees Independence Day as a national holiday, just like Passover, and is moved by the torch-lighting ceremony, with a heart bursting with pride.

A Jewish-Israeli stands at attention during the Memorial Day siren and feels these are the two holiest minutes of the year, just like on Yom Kippur.

A Jewish-Israeli sees in Miriam Peretz’s speech a natural continuation of the Song of Deborah.

A Jewish-Israeli knows that every IDF soldier who fights for us is the holiest thing in the world, regardless of his opinions, skin color, or level of observance.

A Jewish-Israeli loves the Torah and accords respect to rabbis, and is happy that in the Land of Israel there are thousands of Torah learners who preserve the chain of generations.

A Jewish-Israeli sees no contradiction between the progress of the Start-Up Nation and our roots. Excellence in mathematics does not come at the expense of Pirkei Avot.

A Jewish-Israeli remembers that we are unbelievably fortunate, compared to our forebears who lived in miserable exile.

A Jewish-Israeli believes that precisely here in the Land of Israel, we can break through with Jewish creativity, expand Torah study—for women as well as for the secular—and is not afraid of differing opinions. We can return to a culture of enormous debates like in the days of Hillel and Shammai. The very essence of Judaism is a stormy debate between different positions.

A Jewish-Israeli generally holds clear views, but is not sure that all wisdom resides with him. He sits with others and also listens to them.

A Jewish-Israeli remembers well that we lost our land because of hatred among brothers that led to civil war, and he is determined never, ever to let that happen again.

A Jewish-Israeli celebrates the diverse traditions that developed in dozens of countries of the diaspora: from Yemen to the United States, from Ethiopia to Poland, from Morocco to Iraq. It’s all a wonderful mosaic, and we must not lose our ancestral traditions.

A Jewish-Israeli understands that for 2,000 years halakha dealt with individuals and communities, and did not develop to a state of managing a country, economy, employment, shared life, minorities, transportation, an army. Why?

Because we didn’t have a state, so it wasn’t really relevant. Therefore halakhic renewal is required here in the coming centuries. Slowly, gently.

**

How fortunate we are! How fortunate we are to live here, in this wondrous generation!

**

Naftali Bennett

First Questions

Several principal questions arise for me upon reading this (particularly because parts of it don’t speak to me, and yet I still think I am a Jewish Israeli, with or without a hyphen):

  1. Apparently he intends merely to describe some typological figure—that is, to define the concept “Jewish-Israeli.” But in practice it seems he sketches an exemplary, utopian figure and preaches that we be like it, while criticizing those who are not. This is not a neutral description but a kind of exhortation.
  2. It is unclear which of these are criteria for “Jewishness” and which are criteria for humanity. Quite a few of these criteria do not seem connected to Judaism in any way (and some not even to Israeliness).
  3. It is unclear which of these are values and which are facts. One can define a Jew in the factual-ethnic sense, and one can also define values such that whoever is faithful to them is a Jew in an essential sense (that is really a definition of Judaism, not of “a Jew”). Is there value in being a Jewish-Israeli? If one does not meet these criteria, is one “not okay” in some sense? Is he not a Jew, not an Israeli, or perhaps only missing the hyphen?
  4. What role does emotion play in defining the Jewish-Israeli? If someone’s heart does not burst with pride at the torch-lighting ceremony, or does not see in Miriam Peretz a continuation of the prophetess Deborah, is he not a Jew, or not an Israeli? Conversely, if someone’s heart does burst and he falls in admiration at Miriam Peretz’s feet, must he be a Jewish-Israeli? Perhaps he is from the Mekuyah sect, or just a gentile who loves people who contribute to society, or maybe an Evangelical Christian who sees us as the people of the Bible?
  5. What is the standing of the hyphen in the expression “Jewish-Israeli”? Is this a different kind of Judaism, a different kind of Israeliness, or is it a “juxtapositional” compound in the Rogatchover’s terminology (that is, the two components dwell side by side without blending—unlike a “blended” compound)? My impression is that for him this is mainly a definition of Israeliness, though naturally some part of it is Judaism (even though there are non-Jews and Druze who are as good Israelis as you and me).

My View on the Matter

In my eyes, a Jew in the halakhic sense is one born to a Jewish mother or who converted in accordance with halakha. A Jew in the essential sense is one who is faithful to halakha—no more and no less. In the ethnic-national sense, “Jew” is a fairly amorphous definition, and it is very hard to set criteria for it. Everyone says whatever they want here and there is no way to decide; but there is also no real need to decide. That definition is not important (what would be the practical difference whether someone is a Jew in the ethnic-national sense?), except perhaps for academic researchers of nationalism. Of the three definitions, only the middle one has a value dimension. The first and third are mainly facts (even if the third is a very amorphous fact and hard to diagnose).

From this you’ll understand that my fundamental view regarding the term “Jewish Israeli” is juxtapositional and not blended (hence I did not write it with a hyphen). The term “Israeli” in my eyes denotes facts, not values. It is my nationality and my state, just as Belgium is for Belgians. I ought to be loyal to the state (even if, in my opinion, there is no obligation to burst with pride about it), precisely as a Belgian should be regarding Belgium. It’s simply that, to my sorrow or to my joy, I was born here and not in Belgium. There is no inherent value here beyond a basic loyalty to the state and the society of which you are part, as part of the civil covenant implicitly signed by every citizen. For me this is similar to the value of fulfilling a contract, not some supreme substantive value. I wouldn’t write odes of praise to a paid watchman who pays up when the animal deposited with him is stolen or lost.

Nor do I see value in bursting with pride about any event—if only because emotions are not a matter of values (see column 22). Emotion is a fact. Beyond that, emotions are subjective and emotional, and each person has his own mental and emotional makeup (if he has one at all). In different situations there are those whose hearts will burst and those whose hearts will not. A person lacking emotions, whether due to a brain defect or simply a cold personality, is as fine an Israeli as I am. Therefore a mentally healthy Israeli who simply does not burst with pride at this ceremony—or any other—is, in my eyes, an excellent Israeli like me and like any other Israeli. You may not believe it, but in my opinion even someone who has harsh criticism of the state and/or of the way the torch-lighters are chosen, and therefore feels his heart ache with sorrow during the ceremony (or simply doesn’t bother to watch it)—he can still be a wonderful and caring Israeli like me and like Bennett. True, if someone is indifferent to the whole matter (despite being mentally healthy), then something is probably missing in his Israeli identification and civic concern; and still, he is an Israeli in every respect. It’s permissible to be indifferent, as long as you fulfill your obligations as a citizen.

So when Bennett says that a Jewish-Israeli is supposed to burst with pride during the torch-lighting ceremony, it seems to me that he is merely describing what happens to him personally, and saying that despite—or because of—that he sees himself as a good Israeli. That, of course, I can agree with. From there to general criteria for Judaism or Israeliness or their conjunction, the distance is great. So why did I nevertheless feel some identification with his words?

The Meaning of Bennett’s Manifesto

As I wrote, I still feel there is something non-trivial in what he says. First, my sense is that Bennett seeks to hold up a mirror to the common conceptions (such as mine) that see Judaism as something timeless and anachronistic: a religion (in the biblical sense, “dat” means law) that has no bearing on what you think or do, apart from fulfilling your halakhic duties—the conception that your Judaism is a set of mechanical actions that can be performed in any situation and under any circumstances, and are independent of them. That, of course, I do not accept.

In his words Bennett also holds up a mirror to Haredi-ism, which sees Judaism as an idea that clashes with loyalty to the state, with modernity, and with everything outside it. Here I am, of course, with Bennett. Bennett essentially claims that a Jew need not live in exile, and he argues that even in biblical times Jews were not only observers of commandments. They had a national identity; they waged wars; there were power struggles, ceremonies, governance and institutions—all those things that for many of us (like me) are no longer associated with Judaism. I accept this thesis partially. I fully agree that a Jew is also a citizen of the world and ought to be one. Judaism is not a monastery and should not be sequestered in Noah’s arks. But that’s not because what is outside the ark is also Judaism—it isn’t. Rather, it is because a Jew is also a human being—perhaps first and foremost a human being—and as such he ought to live and act across all arenas of life, not only in the beit midrash and the ark. The Torah was not given to ministering angels. There are several similar yet non-identical facets to this, as I will now explain.

Halakhic Renewal

His remarks about the halakhic renewal that this requires of us seem very correct to me. For some reason, statements like these are always linked to the debate between Religious-Zionism and Haredi-ism. But it’s important to understand that to say this, there is no need to assume that Israeliness is part of Judaism, nor to be a Religious-Zionist (with or without a hyphen). It suffices to recognize that in Israel there is factually a situation in which many Jews are trying to run a state and modern social life, and therefore it is clear that this requires creative and open halakhic engagement. It is important to remember that halakha also deals with how one eats and, by contrast, how one expels the waste of that food from our bodies; therefore it should also deal with how one runs a modern state. This does not mean the state has religious value, or that Israeliness is necessarily part of Judaism—just as it doesn’t mean that excreting or eating lunch has religious value. Israeliness is the circumstance within which I live my Judaism, and therefore it demands recognition and halakhic treatment.

The implication is that the need to renew halakha exists objectively, regardless of one’s attitude to the state. Even Haredim who oppose Zionism need to recognize and understand this need. Here one can see the distinction I have often made between two meanings of Haredi-ism: conservatism (particularly halakhic conservatism) and opposition to Zionism. My claim here is that halakhic openness can go together with opposition to Zionism, as long as one takes care to look at the surrounding reality and not to seclude oneself in physical and conceptual Noah’s arks. I feel that, among other things, Bennett means to say this—and here, too, I fully agree.

Normative Duality

This is the place to note the opening in which Bennett describes his relationship (in the broad sense, including his wife’s entire family). At least in the subtext, I understand him to be claiming that a person can be a Jew faithful and committed to halakha while living simultaneously in a parallel, additional world that is more general and universal—and sometimes even directly contradictory. As I argued at length at the beginning of the third book of my trilogy, a person can be faithful to halakha and at the same time fight for gay rights and for opening mikva’ot (ritual baths) to anyone who wishes to immerse, even if that is not in line with halakha. The reason is that in my world beyond halakha there is also an entire realm of values (such as democracy and equality), and I am committed to all of them. Moreover, I explained there that when these values clash with halakha, halakha does not always prevail. As a Jew faithful to halakha I can desire that every Jew be obligated by halakha, and at the same time as a Jewish-democrat (Jewish-Israeli?) fight for his right not to observe it and to live according to his own path. In other words, I detect in his words an additional claim: halakha is not the whole picture. In addition to being a Jew, I am also a human being. Needless to say, I fully agree with that as well.

On Particularistic Universality, or: In Praise of Normalcy

True, Bennett paints this universality in Israeli-particularistic colors, but in my opinion that is of little significance. This is universality as experienced by us here in Israel. Our secular, normal life (the arts and literature, professional pursuits, sports, and more) is in Hebrew. Our democracy is Israeli. The hills we hike are Israeli. But essentially, for me, this is a manifesto for normal Judaism and not specifically for Israeli Judaism; it just happens to be written by an Israeli. It seems to me that this is precisely the point where I connect with his words despite my initial antagonism. His Israeliness is, in my eyes, universal, and as such I do see in it a certain value dimension. I must, however, sharpen that this is a negative value dimension: that is, there is a rejection of the value-laden claim that all this has no place within a Jewish worldview. That does not mean that any of these things, in themselves, are values—and certainly not Judaism. That, as noted, I do not accept.

My antagonism is directed at the identification he makes between all this and Judaism (because in my view there is no connection, at least on the value plane), and also somewhat at the fact that this universal normalcy dons Israeli-particularistic colors for him in a way that makes it harder to understand that it is essentially sheer universality and normalcy. He could have written the same thing about a Jewish-Belgian, and in principle it would be the same. As an Israeli, I of course find myself identifying with his words as phrased here, but that is only because I was born here and these are my feelings. More precisely, it stems from facts and not from values. Factually, I want to live with my people in my homeland, Israel, and therefore it is natural for me to speak of Israeliness rather than “Belgian-ness.” But that is really a contingent and factual matter, not a value. From an objective viewpoint, there is no greater value in being Israeli than in being Belgian. This is a matter of built-in identification within us that is, at its core, factual. In short, the value dimension—so far as I see such a dimension here—is not Israeliness but universality. I identify with his claim that a Jew should and can be normal, but not with the notion that this normalcy has intrinsic value or that it is part of Judaism, nor with its connection specifically to Israeliness.

Beyond my critique of the failure to distinguish between values and facts in his words, when one makes too big a deal out of this particularistic fact, one can also reach fascism (in which you see your nation as something essential rather than a contingent fact, and also as a supreme value that tramples individuals beneath it—and of course you see your nation as superior to every other nation). But that is another discussion.

Conclusion

What leads me to see Bennett as a good representative of mine is that same freedom and opening of frameworks, as opposed to the prevailing religious rigidity. I am not with him in the “lite-ness,” nor in the am-ha’aratzut (ignorance) and the balabatish ideological small-mindedness. But there is something refreshing in his normalcy. I am fed up with religious representatives about whom you can predict in advance what they will say about anything—those who subjugate every statement and every reference to the religious conceptual framework (when there is no need). I do not want a Knesset member or a rabbi who feels compelled to refer to a Pride Parade as a “parade of beasts” because halakha forbids homosexual relations—someone incapable of understanding that one can live in both worlds and that it is not right to subordinate one to the other. Bennett, in my eyes, represents the possibility of being a Jew faithful to halakha and, in parallel, a human being with universal values. Not because there is no contradiction—sometimes there is indeed a contradiction—but because I belong to both of these worlds together, and when there is a conflict, it must be resolved rather than ignoring one of its sides.

In this sense, the present column joins the previous one. I wrote there that Racheli Rotner represents, in my view, a certain normal and free Judaism, just as with Bennett. Except that my sense is that in both of them this is not grounded and not theoretically supported (neither halakhically nor philosophically). It is apparently a natural and obvious feeling for them, and both are unwilling to give it up, even though it runs counter to accepted Torah and religious dogmas. As I wrote there, I am trying to formulate these conceptions into a coherent intellectual framework, thereby giving them theoretical and halakhic—or rather meta-halakhic—backing.

I must add that, at least within the religious framework, I believe that natural feelings that are not supported by a theoretical and halakhic foundation cannot truly exist and progress. Whoever goes with them as they are is ejected from the religious framework, and then those who remain inside are only the fossils. Therefore a deep and thorough theoretical plowing is needed, and I believe that, in the end—even if only after many years and even generations—it will come to fruition and bear fruit on the practical plane and even the political one.

Moreover, this has an expression in the political sphere as well. As long as these natural feelings are not supported on the theoretical plane, it is very hard for people to support them and even to give them a voice at the ballot box. Their simple feeling—accompanied, of course, by statements from the rabbinic establishment—is that a serious Jew committed to halakha cannot lend his hand to a coalition some of whose components have emblazoned on their banners freedom and rights for every person, with any sexual orientation and gender identity. You must decide: Are you a Jew or a democrat? We need only hear the voices coming out against Bennett and his coalition from those quarters to understand the power of the rigidity. Therefore I wish to argue here: You indeed can, and it in no way contradicts your religious commitment. Here we return to Bennett the politician. May he—and we—enjoy great success. And see life with the woman whom you love…


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48 תגובות

  1. Hello,

    Can the Rabbi refer here to articles/columns in which he dealt with commitment to two different value systems (normative duality) in the context of Halacha?

    Thank you.

    1. This appears at the beginning of the third book in the trilogy.
      See here: https://mikyab.net/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9B%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%95-%D7%96% D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7 %A0%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%9E%D7%98%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%9E%D7%A7
      And here: https://mikyab.net/posts/781

      1. Doesn't the first article contradict the second article and the article here?
        Is the intention of the rabbi who repeated it from the first article? (Either he defines himself as a heretic mainly and then there is no contradiction or did I miss something)

          1. The “ancient” article deals (if I understood correctly) with the proposal made by certain people to hold a value system outside the Torah in addition to the commitment to the Torah and to be prepared to even prefer it in certain cases of conflict over the Halacha. The conclusion of the article is that this is heresy mainly and probably also ez (since even a principle can be an idol and an unreasoned commitment in itself is an acceptance in God).

            That is why I asked if the Rabbi retracted that article.

            1. Absolutely not. Commitment to a system outside of the Torah and the Holy Spirit is a co-operation (and perhaps it is actually a halachic co-operation). This is how Leibowitz spoke of morality as an atheistic category, if someone is committed to morality according to this, he works co-operation. But in my opinion, morality is a category outside of the halachic but not outside of the Torah. The commitment to morality is founded in the Torah (although not in the halachic). And when the source of validity is the Holy Spirit, there is no additional factor here.

              1. I think it is necessary to clarify this in every article that claims this opinion, otherwise it is not understandable (and as evidence, I was familiar with the Rabbi's view that commitment to a system of values that is independent of God is a sin and I understood that the Rabbi changed his mind, a warning to those who do not know this)

                (Regardless, I do not agree with these claims)

  2. Hello Dr. Michael Avraham

    I wanted to ask, would you kindly be ashamed?

    I strongly recommend that you be ashamed first of this column and then of the previous column and most of all of the Seg/Lida column (worship of Benito and forgiveness from the Haredi women) that precedes them

    1. I don't think it's appropriate for a person to write to someone else to be ashamed.

      Actually, your comment isn't serious enough to warrant a response, but hey, I already wrote one.

      1. Honorable sir, I also ask you to be ashamed of yourself for trying to educate me.

    2. On the second day of the month, let us arrange what is good in the tents of Jacob, and we will carry them out.

      The people of Israel are a people of heroes. We were called "Israel" because of our ability to keep "for you made a covenant with God and with men and you will be able to do it." The strongest among the nations of Israel..

      But we were also called "Jews" because of our ability to acknowledge. To acknowledge our Creator, who gives us the power to do good. And not to boast about our strength and the might of our hand, to acknowledge our mistakes and say "righteousness is from me," and from that to take responsibility and be guarantors for our brother, even if it seems that he did not act correctly.

      Therefore, a Jewish Israeli, even when he is a great doer who excels in mercy and acts of kindness, A ‘shy’ garden remains, aware of its smallness. As the prophet Micah said: ‘do justice and love kindness’ and at the same time ‘and walk modestly with your God’.

      And as Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Klein (Abba Siladi-Cha, great-grandfather of Yair Lapid) explained, that is why you gave the name of each tribe both on a separate stone on the breastplate and together with the other tribes on the shoulders of the ephod. To teach them that on the one hand, each one needs to say ‘if I have none, who will I have’ and not rely on others to do it, and on the other hand, to feel that ’and when I am for myself, what am I’, and only in connecting with the whole will he succeed.

      Best regards, Amioz Yaron Schnitzel

      1. Paragraph 3, line 1
        … also remains ‘shy’…

        Paragraph 5, line 1
        … which is why his name is written…

        1. On the 12th of Tammuz, 5th of September

          As for Bennett's definition of a 'Jew', as someone who refers to the heritage of the people as a 'source of inspiration' but not as a source of authority. This is precisely the position of the Reformers (see, for example, Rabbi Buchdel's words in column 336). And what is 'Israeli' about this?

          With greetings, Aish

          By the way, Bennett's claim that the law was created in exile and therefore deals only with the laws of individuals and communities and not with the laws of the state is not strictly correct. The Mishnah was written by Rabbi Akiva and his disciples, who carried out the miracle of the revolt against the Romans, and in it, as interpreted in the Talmud and the writings of Rishonim and Acharonim – The foundations were also laid for the ’Laws of Kings and Their Wars’

          1. In the 12th of September, 1982, Gilat Bennett was born in the village of Kfar Oriya. It is worth mentioning here the blessing of Rabbi Kook on the foundation of the new village, Kfar Oriya. In it, the rabbi is particularly impressed by the main and primary clause in the village's bylaws, which states that the village is founded on the foundations of Torah and Judaism, and the traditional religion.

            And to this the rabbi says:
            “You have done great things, my dear sirs, by raising the flag of the faith of a craftsman, a miracle of honor in the sight of all, over your village, which is founded in the Holy Land.” By saying this, You have breathed the breath of eternal life into your great work, which we hope will be an inspiration to many who will learn from you, now and even more so in the future. For the light of God, His blessing and success, will shine upon the works of your hands, to strengthen the foundation of all the works of our national revival, and all our buildings in the land of our ancestors, on the foundation of the soul of the living Light of the worlds and His spirit, which lives in His people and His inheritance through the light of His Torah, the legacy of the Congregation of Jacob, a crown of glory for generations and a treasure of life and a blessing from fathers to children of children (Letters of the Lord, Tikkan, dated the 24th of Sivan, 1913).

            With blessings, Aisha

  3. I enjoyed reading, which is ridiculous. We are all Jews, according to Bennett's definition.
    In contrast, the approach of most religious movements is that ”no one really understands what “authentic” Judaism is except for us”.
    If I understand correctly, the rabbi is trying to draw a middle line between these two extremes?

    1. I don't see why I'm drawing a middle line. It depends on which definition you're dealing with: the halakhic-ethnic, the essential, or the national-cultural. I'm definitely one of those who think they know best what Judaism is.

  4. Once, Rabbi Sabatu asked the students in a yeshiva: 4 people see a sinking ship, a journalist, a photographer, a writer and a painter. Who can document the event best?
    Bennett is trying to draw something here and you are reading it from a different perspective, which makes it difficult in many ways.

  5. A question for Micki and his supporters.
    Micki wrote:
    “Can a person be loyal to the halacha and at the same time fight for gay rights”. (For example, accept to get married and receive rights as a regular couple)

    Here is another sentence:
    Can a person be loyal to the halacha (of course, the halacha prohibits murder) and at the same time fight for the right of members of criminal organizations to carry weapons (just as any citizen is allowed to try to obtain a license to carry a weapon).

    A fact that we all agree on (I really hope):
    Sexual intercourse and murder are prohibited according to halacha.

    Note that in both cases we are talking about the halakhic aspect, not the moral aspect.

    What is the difference between what Micki wrote and what I wrote?
    I am really trying to understand the logic.
    And please, no demagogic claims like “How evil/stupid are you to compare gays to murderers”.

    I'm really just trying to figure things out.

  6. In simple terms:
    You took the sentence out of context.
    Rabbi Michael Avraham wrote about the contradiction between the moral aspect and the halakhic aspect.
    If you feel that it is moral for criminal organizations to possess weapons – you are welcome to act on this issue even though it contradicts halakhic law (similar to what you wrote about the halakhic aspect, I very much hope that you do not think it is moral).

    1. Hello David,

      First of all, you made a very big assumption by stating that a homosexual family or homosexual marriage is a moral thing . . . It really is not. But let's leave that aside for now.

      Here is an example of something that every religious person (normal and serious) observes, even if it goes against morality:
      An injury on Shabbat that hurts, but is certainly not a pikuach nefesh – a toothache that requires surgical intervention (not at all pleasant), or a sprained ankle.

      Halachically, we will not desecrate Shabbat, even though it is morally very difficult for a person to suffer or to see the suffering of others, and not to offer them assistance that requires desecration of Shabbat.

      So why don't you and Miki also propose to renew the Halachic law of observing Shabbat?
      Let's also say that because in this generation there are people who have a hard time with Shabbat, and the spiritual level is not high, then it is also possible to
      compromise on the issue of desecration of Shabbat. . .

      Why are you "great heroes" on certain issues, and not on others?

      1. Glad to hear that I'm talking to someone who doesn't know basic logic, first of all the assumption I made is that the right of homosexuals to be allowed to marry is moral, not that their marriage is moral.

        Second, I do think that homosexual marriage is a moral thing, moreover, there is no contradiction between this and the halakha.

        All your other dogmas are nothing more than demagogy in the shekel of a person who doesn't know basic logic, so I will have to ignore them.

        1. Hello David,

          I understand that this is a sensitive issue, and I understand that you may have family or friends who deal with this issue of homosexuality (and maybe you are homosexual yourself),
          but even if someone is not strong in logic, it is recommended to avoid biting, and try to explain in a respectful and beautiful way where they were wrong.
          And know that even if you (or one of your acquaintances) is like that, I (like 99.99% of religious people) love you very much.

          I claim something like this –
          Everyone who is in favor of the *right* of homosexuals to marry, thinks that there is no clear moral problem, and that it does not contradict something else.
          Moreover, I do not think that you will find even one sane person in the world who would be in favor of allowing a right for X, and at the same time believe that X is immoral and that X
          does not contradict another right in a clear way.

          Let's take an example – artificial abortion.
          I believe that there are people who believe that abortion itself is immoral, but overall they are in favor of allowing the right to an induced abortion,
          but that's because if they were to ban abortion, it would be in clear contradiction to a woman's right to her own body.

          I mean, your attempt to make it seem like it's possible to believe that ”I support the right to same-sex marriage, even though I think it's morally problematic”,
          is simply a non-existent life.
          I want you to show me one person who believes that. I'll gladly listen.

          Regarding your claim that my argument about spraining an ankle is “demagogy”, that's simply not true.
          Demagoguery is “appealing to emotion”.
          There is no demagoguery in my question. It's a very simple question to try to understand your mind and mine.
          I will ask her again:
          If you are in favor of relaxing the law for homosexuals, because there are problematic moral aspects here. Especially in a spiritually complex generation like ours, in the face of the halakhic issue,
          Why wouldn't you also be in favor of relaxing the issue of keeping the Sabbath, which has problematic moral aspects, especially in a spiritually complex generation like ours, in the face of the halakhic issue?
          Why does someone who is approaching religion need to understand that there are situations in which he won't be able to take his son to the hospital when he has a certain injury?
          Isn't that morally problematic?
          Why don't we also relax the issue of desecrating the Sabbath for the entire nation?

          1. I will answer in order.
            I apologize for the sting, indeed it was inappropriate and unnecessary.
            I do not have to deal with a different tendency, but I do have close acquaintances who deal with it.

            The claim "I love you" along with 99.99% of religious people is simply a belittling of the concept of love, an unnecessary comment, it is not much different from the claim I love all people but I still hate and will fight against certain groups, the context of love is simply irrelevant to the issue.

            Morality is a fluid thing, there are things that are immoral but only slightly, and on the other hand, there are things that will horrify the listener. For that matter, I may think that rudeness towards an adult is immoral behavior, on the other hand, murder is much more immoral.
            In the case where there is an act that is slightly immoral but restricting it is a much more immoral act. Let's continue with the same example, would you agree with me that imprisonment is not a moral punishment for a person who was rude to an adult? (Although this is an immoral act, imprisonment is an act that is even more immoral.) I got a little entangled in the argument here, but the idea is understandable.

            Regarding the person who believes this, you won't find me on this list because I believe that it is moral in the first place, on the other hand, I do know people who believe this.

            This is demagogy because when you bring up the issue of flexing the law, you appeal to the conservative sentiment against flexing the law, even though it is not about flexing the law at all.

            And regarding the rest of your response, again, demagogy.

            1. David,

              Halakh is not what is written in the written Torah, nor is it just this or that section in the Shulchan Aruch.

              Halakhah is derived from the Oral Torah – the endless conversation between the people of Israel and the Creator.
              The people of Israel, with its many rabbis and teachers, refuse to recognize homosexual marriage (which would probably lead to abominable acts).
              So even if it is not explicitly written in the Halakhah, de facto it is forbidden.

              By the way, it is not accurate that it is not written in the Halakhic sources.
              You are welcome to read the Wikipedia entry “Homosexuality in Halakhah”.

              Regardless of all this, I recommend that you learn from Rabbi Sherki Shalit”a on Tosh”a.

  7. And what is an Israeli Jew who moves to the US to become the CEO of a high-tech company that then sells it to an American company?

  8. In exile, a Jew cannot be a normal person without abandoning mourning for the destruction and slipping into assimilation. Only in the Land of Israel, where Jews are the majority, can a Jew be a normal person. Therefore, only in the Land of Israel could this passage be written.

  9. In my opinion, you are wrong in your statement that ”emotions are not a matter of values”, for two reasons:

    1.
    Even if there is no value in the emotion itself, it is reasonable to say that there is a correlation between emotion around a positive issue and practical commitment to it. And if you agree that ”actions are indeed a matter of values”, then emotion is also indirectly related to values. For example, a person who is overwhelmed with feelings of joy when he gives up going to the movies in order to feed his elderly parents is also likely to be more practically committed to the value of honoring parents than a person who does so without any feeling.

    And if you agree that there is a correlation between emotion and action, then there is no flaw or fallacy in what Bennett wrote about the excitement at the torchlight ceremony.

    2.
    Beyond that, how do you know that there is no value in the emotion itself?
    I understand that you conclude this from your assumption that emotion is the result of factors external to the person, but this is an unfounded assumption. Even actions can be argued to be the result of external factors. It is true that actions and emotions are also influenced by external factors, and it is even true that emotions are influenced by external factors more than actions are influenced by them, but it does not seem reasonable to me to say that emotion is influenced only by external factors.

    To illustrate, for example, we can say about emotion something similar to what you wrote in column 22 about love – “Even if it seems to arise by itself without laws and rules and without judgment, it is possible that it is a hidden judgment, or the result of mental and spiritual work that preceded the moment of its awakening”.

    And since emotion is also influenced to some extent by the person's choice, it is reasonable to say that there is value in excitement and positive feelings about a valuable matter, just as there is value in valuable actions.

    __

    In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that I agree with you about the inferiority and foolishness of emotion (compared to thoughts and actions) and the dangers inherent in it. But as I argued above, I believe that you are mistaken in not seeing emotion as having any value-related significance.

    Since this is a significant mistake that you repeat in many articles, I wrote this response with excitement and joy at the benefit I estimate it will have if it makes you think again about things (:

    1. I am happy and excited about the excitement and joy I caused you, but unfortunately I have to take a little break. I have written and said these things more than once: If emotion expresses a reference, then it can be a sign of something important, and yet it itself is not important.

      1. You didn't answer the first argument I gave.
        I also didn't understand how you answered the second argument (which is more central and important in my opinion).

        Maybe I'll read columns 311 to 314 and column 371 to try to find an explanation for what you said that ”emotion expresses reference” and how that answers what I wrote.

        1. I explained that emotion can express a type of attitude and not just external factors, and it still has no value on its own but at most is an expression of something valuable. What is important is the person's attitude as a result of a decision and not nature or something spontaneous. Nor is it something derived from a decision.
          And if emotion is a means to contribute us to action, then again it is a means and not an end. And this means itself must also be discussed how it happens (spontaneously or from a decision).

  10. No matter how much you try to legalize the homosexuality worm with high-sounding words and slogans about democracy and rights that do not contradict the law, it will not help you. I understand your family and emotional interest and your mental need for it. In any case, it is worth putting things on the table. The Torah wrote about homosexuals as an abomination. There is no need to expand and detail the Bible, which is not too out of the ordinary. An abomination is repulsive and disgusting. It is not like desecrating the Sabbath or eating pork. It is simply an abomination. Therefore, the one you see as obligated to carry out his will is not talking about you. Of course, it is all a play on words. He also created this sexual urge in some of his sons, but warned against it with the death penalty and called this action an abomination!! Which means that a person loyal to him should feel disgust when he sees such people, just as any person feels disgust from a pedophile or anyone who sleeps with an animal, and therefore even if you don’t want an MK or a rabbi who finds himself having to treat a pride parade as an animal parade because the law prohibits homosexual relations. And that the law sees them as sleeping with an animal!!! And even if that person is able to understand that there are two worlds and it is right to subordinate one to the other. Just as you subordinate a pedophile to disgust.

    1. Continue to climb tall trees and cause hardship for the rabbis of another 100 years. When the rest of the world (including Muslims and Christians) accepts the Lehtavim, then Judaism, as usual, will follow suit. Congratulations

    2. The Torah also wrote an abomination about eating meat in milk, Ein Chulin ki”d:

  11. Is it true that in your opinion it is appropriate to fight for the rights of the better off only on the assumption that he is a fornicator (say, in opinions) and otherwise not (before a blind person, for example)?

    1. Not necessarily. The fact that it is forced, of course, increases the motivation to fight for it. But as long as there is nothing immoral here but only a religious prohibition, I am against the state forcing it. For example, I am against the state forcing religious marriage, even for those who can do it and don't want to.

  12. Shalom Rabbi. This article actually deals with the issue of separation of religion from state and separation of religion from morality. I would like to ask: Why, if there is no connection between religion and morality, can we not learn Torah from a person who is not moral? Assuming that he observes Torah and mitzvot but is not moral.

    1. First of all, you can learn from him.
      The sages suspected that such a person might have incorrect beliefs and an unrighteous mind, or that he was biased. If this is indeed the case, then he could distort the Torah he teaches. But if you learn from him critically and examine his arguments, there is no fundamental obstacle to learning from him.

  13. I understand the appreciation for a person who researched, was wrong and I still appreciate the inclinations of his heart, due to the initial investigation.
    But what is the meaning of appreciating a person who did not research, does not follow the path you believe in but is ‘normal’?

    1. This is an assessment of normality and not of a specific person. In every group, there are people who have studied and some who have not.

  14. You wrote, “My feeling is that Bennett wants to hold up a mirror to the accepted views (like mine) that see Judaism as something timeless and anachronistic. It is a religion (in the biblical sense, religion is law) that has no bearing on what you think or do, except for fulfilling your halakhic obligations. The view that your Judaism is a collection of mechanical actions that can be performed in any situation and in any condition, and is not dependent on them. Of course, I disagree with that.”
    In your opinion, Judaism is only halakhic, and you are a gentile who observes the commandments, what do you disagree with Bennett about?

    1. It would be a bit of an exaggeration to claim that Bennett has a systematic Mishnah on Judaism and Halacha. At least I don't know of one. If you have a specific question, you are welcome to ask, but I see no point in writing an essay on everything Bennett disagrees with in my trilogy. Contact him, maybe he would like to write (he has a lot of time now).

      1. You wrote that you disagree that Judaism is a collection of mechanical actions that can be performed in any situation and in any condition and does not depend on them. Regardless of Bennett, why do you disagree?

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