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On Platonism – Continued (Column 384)

With God’s help

Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.

In the previous column I defined Platonism and the ideal entities that appear within it. There I distinguished between an idea (eidos), which is a set of properties, and an ideal entity, which is a theoretical object. This distinction has two opposing aspects: (a) the idea exists (in the world of ideas), whereas the ideal entity does not exist (it is an abstract object we invented in our imagination); (b) the ideal entity has the properties of the concrete entity, whereas the idea does not. Thus, for example, the idea of “horseness” has no properties of a horse. Those properties are contained within it but do not describe it. By contrast, the ideal horse, which is an abstract object, has the properties of a horse. We saw one implication of this distinction regarding the “Third Man” argument raised by Plato’s opponents, and now we shall see further implications that sharpen these distinctions.

Platonic and Socratic Love

From time to time we speak of emotions in a Platonic sense, the most prominent being Platonic love. What exactly does that mean? The common definition is love for a woman without the physical component (sexual relations). More abstractly, one can speak of love for a woman who, physically speaking, does not attract me sexually. Why is such love called “Platonic”? I think it can be understood through the definition given by the learned Florentine, Marsilio Ficino, in the fifteenth century: it is love for a person’s personality and wisdom, not for their physical traits. Interestingly, until his time such love was called “Socratic love” (amor socraticus), and Ficino regarded “Platonic love” (amor platonicus) as a synonymous expression.

Upon further reflection, however, I think there is a difference in meaning, or at least in the context, of these two expressions. Socratic love is an exalted love: it does not focus on a person’s lower parts but on the higher. One might say it is love rather than lust—its aims are not egoistic but value-laden (to cleave to the good, the spiritual, the lofty). This follows from the description of Socrates’ personality: he indeed dealt with the exalted and tried to get people to aspire to cleave to it. Plato, by contrast, represents a turn to the ideas. This is not necessarily something more exalted, but rather something more abstract—the abstract dimension underlying reality and the concrete objects in our world. In my understanding, the expression “Platonic love” does not necessarily express a yearning for something lofty, but for something abstract. Platonic love relates to a person’s idea and not to a concrete person. His idea comprises his set of properties; according to Plato it is an abstract entity—but this is love that does not truly address the person before me, only his properties.

In my terminology one could perhaps say that Jacob’s Socratic love is directed toward “Rachel the pure” (and not toward the concrete one)—that is, toward some abstract figure of the Rachel before him. Platonic love, by contrast, is directed toward Rachel’s idea. Socrates loves the “Rachel-ness” within the concrete Rachel, whereas Plato loves the “Rachel-ness” itself (a general set of properties). The object of Socratic love is a pure person, whereas that of Platonic love is an idea, not a person (and not even a pure person). In a moral context we speak of love of the good. When you meet a good person, you are supposed to love them and try to cleave to them. One could say that on the Platonic plane you really love the Good (the noun, i.e., tov with the shuruk vowel) as such, and not the good person before you—not even the good in the particular person before you. Socrates would love that.

What I have defined here as Platonic love is love that does not address a person but rather an idea or an abstract set of properties (an idea). Socratic love, by contrast, addresses the person and not the ideas, but it focuses on his higher part, not his lower parts. In my terminology: it is love for a pure person, not for an idea. To sharpen what may still seem blurry, think of someone who aspires to the good and loves the Good (with shuruk), but who has no love for any person around him—not even for good people. He loves the Good, not good people. Does that sound implausible? You might be surprised, but you all know such people.

My grandfather, of blessed memory, used to say of a certain famous Rebbe that he loved the people of Israel very much, but he had a problem with the individuals. In my terminology, one could say that this Rebbe loved Israel with a Platonic, not a Socratic, love. His love was directed toward “Israel-ness,” not toward Israelis. Socratic love is love for people—even though it is directed toward their higher and exalted part. You can focus it on an abstract Rachel, but through her you develop love for Rachel herself. Plato, by contrast, can love “humanity” with great passion and at the same time be a misanthrope. He is not interested in concrete people but in ideas.

As noted, we all know such people. Not infrequently we wonder about those righteous folks who care for the world and fight tirelessly and self-sacrificingly to improve it, but care less for the concrete human beings around them. An acquaintance of mine—truly a man deserving of great esteem for his principled deeds and devotion—used to say that he has no friends, only fellow travelers. That is a quintessentially Platonic expression. Such people cleave to ideas and values, but it is quite hard to live with them, let alone form an emotional bond. The feeling is that they are objects composed of pure intellect and values—but not so much human beings.

In column 269 I discussed the nature of friendship, in particular the obligations it creates. For Plato there is no place for friendship and it creates no obligation toward a person, since his mental orientation is not love or attachment to a particular person but to an idea. Attachment to a person requires that I see before me a concrete person and not only an idea. If he is a good person—that is, a person in whom the worthy idea is embodied—then one ought to attach to him himself (Socratically, and not merely Platonically).[1]

Popper on Platonism

Karl Popper wrote a monumental book, The Open Society and Its Enemies. The main thrust of the book is a struggle against modernist world-fixers, especially the communists. I was very surprised that the first part of the book is devoted entirely to a critique of Plato and Platonism, but when I read on, I understood the rationale. Popper claims that the root of all evil in the great, destructive ideologies is their Platonism. Such world-fixers place before their eyes some utopian model of human beings and of human society that appears to them perfect, and they strive ruthlessly—using any means and without consideration—to realize it. This striving entails quite a few woodchips flying in the process. The communists spoke of the victims who fell along the way (both among communists themselves and among their enemies) as “oil on the wheels of the revolution.”

Popper placed at the center of his critique our utopias and our certitude about them. He recommends that we not be so certain about our utopia, that we not make wild revolutions, but rather place trust in accumulated experience and in long, controlled processes—without the certainty and dogmatism that are expressed in perfect utopian models that are supposed to guide us and toward which we are to strive with all our might. By way of illustration, I recall a conversation I have already mentioned here with a man who is a professor of economics and holds a communist worldview. That person was, and still is, a member of the Communist Party (Rakah, Maki). To my surprise it emerged in our conversation that he has no utopia. He explained that communists today—at least the shade to which he himself belongs—do not strive to realize a utopia, since they too understand that they have no substitute for a market economy. I asked him in what sense, then, they are still communists, and the answer I received was rather vague. He said that they seek to correct various things locally, without placing some final utopian model before their eyes. The model, he said, is supposed to crystallize in motion. This is communism without a utopian model toward which one strives; it is the very desire to critique and repair that constitutes their communism.

I told him that, logically speaking, this definition does not hold water. It reminds me of those secular-humanist Jews whose “Judaism” is humanism. But humanism is supposed to be shared by all human beings. Judaism might perhaps define a certain sort of humanism (I doubt even that), but humanism itself cannot define Judaism, since it is shared by everyone—or by many, at least as an ideal model. Likewise, the desire to repair and improve is not communism. Communism is supposed to propose a particular kind of improvement or a utopia toward which one strives; once you have given that up, I told him, I do not understand in what sense you are communists. I too want to repair the world en route. As long as you do not define the direction you seek, what distinguishes you from me?! This conversation illustrates the sobering from grand utopias and from Platonic world-repair (which seeks to lead the world to a single, sharply pre-defined utopia).

A Complement and Correction to Popper’s Critique: Between Platonism and Conservatism

Thus far I have explained that Popper dedicates his monumental work—as well as another of his booklets—to a war on historicism (a Platonic view of history). But I think Popper failed to notice that striving for a utopian model is not the root of evil. It is not bad per se, except when it appears in a very particular form.

What I have described so far in Popper’s name is nothing but a conservative argument (see columns 217 and 249). Movements of repair know in advance and with certainty what the ideal model is toward which we must strive—their utopia—for the sake of which they trample the world. Popper, in contrast, proposes that we be more modest and trust trial and error and accumulated human experience, not imagining that we already know better than everyone what ought to be. In his view, the model should crystallize of itself along the way and constantly improve. He claims that we must not think there is some ideal rest and repose—a perfect model to which we are all supposed to arrive—because we never know in advance what it is supposed to look like, and therefore we must not force it upon ourselves. Revolutionary dogmatism is, in his eyes, the mother of all sin.

But in my view there is no need to mix conservative arguments with arguments against Platonism. You can be conservative and still oppose ruthless modernism (like communism). To my judgment, the focal point of harm and evil in modernism is not conservatism but Platonism—that is, attending to an idea instead of to concrete human beings. The communists and their fellow world-repairers did not sin only in that they were not conservative and preferred their utopian model over accumulated experience. Their main failure is that they forgot that their doctrine and their fine models (more or less) were meant to improve the lives of concrete human beings. They saw before their eyes the good of all “humanity” and trampled the concrete people on the path to its realization. They did not really take into account the people who constitute that very humanity about which they care so much. The problem is not that they preferred the model over accumulated experience; it is that they preferred the model over human beings. They saw the forest and ignored the trees—just like the Rebbe and the types I described above. This is the main problem with the great movements of repair, not the mere fact that they had a utopia.

One can strive for a utopian model—and even be revolutionary and very non-conservative—and still do so while taking into account the human beings for whom the utopia is fashioned. Even if we have a perfect forest to which we strive, and even if we are completely convinced of our rightness, we must not fell a multitude of trees on the way to creating that forest. A non-ruthless movement of repair might be mistaken in its utopia (so you likely think, if you are conservatives like Popper), but it is not necessarily evil. When you speak of evil, Platonism in the sense of striving for utopia is not enough; there must also be ruthlessness on the way to that utopia.

A Note on Postmodernism

Popper’s partial analysis also gave birth to postmodernism. It saw modernism and the ills it brought upon us through the very striving for perfect utopias of justice and morality, and therefore decided to give up on truth, justice, and morality, creating instead an alternative of relativism and narrativity. They told themselves—and us—that if only we would give up on the grand utopias, we would no longer have murderous, oppressive world-fixers, and the world would revert to being wonderful. In that sense Popper was part of the emergence of postmodernism (he himself would, of course, strenuously reject that classification). But this is a mistake in several respects. First, the proposed cure is mistaken. Postmodernism does not really offer an alternative. If a person believes in such utopias, postmodern preaching will not change that. The mistake is that postmodernism has no real way to contend with utopian revolutionaries who disagree with it and think there are grand, perfect utopias.

But here I wish to focus on another error—one that concerns the diagnosis of modernism. The postmodern diagnosis is that the main evil in modernism lies in the very existence of utopias. That is a mistaken diagnosis (and again, I am not arguing in favor of utopias; that relates to the question of conservatism), for that was precisely Popper’s mistake. The evil in modernism (which also led to postmodernism) is not the mere existence of a utopia but the way one relates to it and to human beings. The evil is behaving Platonically rather than Socratically: seeing the utopia before one’s eyes while ignoring the concrete people who are trampled along the way. One cannot benefit “humanity” while harming the people who constitute it.[2] Therefore, the remedy is not necessarily to give up on truth and on the grand utopias. One may accept them—or not—but that is not the proper cure for modernism’s ills.

A Note on Racism and Chauvinism

In note 8 of the previous column I mentioned that Platonism identifies objects—including human beings—by their essential properties (those that constitute their idea). A mistake in defining the essential properties can lead to racism, chauvinism, and other ills. One who regards skin color, or a connection between skin color and intelligence or goodness, as essential properties will tend to treat people according to their skin color, gender, and the like. Here, too, one sees Platonist fingerprints: Platonists tend to see our world as an instantiation of fixed ideas that exist somewhere from time immemorial. With such a view it is only natural to conclude there is no way to change the situation. Women will always be uneducated and less capable, and likewise for Blacks, yellow-skinned people, and other groups defined by such natural characteristics.

In the halakhic-Jewish context as well, the prevailing approach is conservatism grounded in Platonism. When I argue for the need to change our attitude toward Gentiles or toward women, one immediately presents me with a Platonic stance: the nature of women is such-and-such, the nature of Gentiles is such-and-such, and therefore the Sages’ words are eternal and there is no need (and not merely no possibility) to change them. Sometimes this begins with the sense that change is impossible (questions of authority and consensus), and the ad hoc justification is Platonic—the claim that there is also no need. They argue that the Sages possessed the Holy Spirit, and therefore if they said something about women it is eternal and unchanging. It is important to understand that without the Platonic assumptions one can still say that the Sages indeed possessed the Holy Spirit and were always right, and yet maintain that the situation has changed and therefore the law regarding Gentiles or women should change. This is not a rebellion against the Sages but an adaptation of their path to our contemporary reality. The claims that the Sages did not err and cannot err do not by themselves lead to conservatism. Conservatism necessarily contains a Platonic element: that a woman or a Gentile does not change across the generations; hence the Sages’ words are necessarily relevant and correct for our times as well. It is important to understand that one who proposes change is not necessarily challenging the Sages’ authority or capacities (and even if one does, there is nothing wrong with that; it is entirely reasonable to think they were not perfect); rather, he opposes Platonic conservatism that has no connection to our stance toward the Sages.

The Relationship Between the Two Aspects of Platonism

On the plane I have just described, Platonism actually leads to conservatism—that is, to a lack of confidence in the possibility of change. This seems, at first glance, the exact opposite of what I described above. There I showed that Platonism underlies the great revolutions and is opposed to conservatism. We saw that Platonism generates ideal utopias (instantiations of ideas) that call upon us to realize them. Communism even espoused historical determinism: those ideas were decreed upon us and will realize themselves willy-nilly. All we can do is join the process and not commit suicide by trying to oppose it (to be the Antichrist blocking the salvation of the modernist religion). Here, by contrast, Platonism stands against the desire and possibility of change; it undergirds conservatism and the refusal to recognize the possibility of change.

Indeed, these are two different sides of the Platonic coin, but it is easy to see that they are two kinds of consequences—somewhat opposed—of Platonic conceptions. I would note that, in my judgment, even here Platonism comes out the loser. I certainly do not trust revolutions and utopias—certainly not ruthless, misanthropic revolutionism—and this is my opposition to Platonism on the plane described above. But I am indeed in favor of change and against rigidities; in that sense I also oppose Platonism of the second (conservative) sort. Just as the utopia is not forced upon us and is not necessarily set in the heavens since Creation, unchangeable, so too the nature of a woman, a Gentile, or a Black person is not necessarily eternal and unalterable. Even if there is an idea of “woman” or of “Black,” there is no necessity to say it includes lack of education or lack of ability. That may be so, but it is not necessary. Even within a Platonic framework (and in the previous column I explained that I personally side with it), one can hang this on the possibility that ideas can be dynamic, or on the claim that those traits are not essential and therefore do not belong to the idea of woman or Black. The second claim is that this is a clinging to irrelevant traits (i.e., non-essential). I fully support a (non-ruthless, non-violent) striving for changes toward equality—whether you see this as a change in the idea, or as a fuller realization of the idea that had not, until now, been realized fully and properly.

In short, there is no real contradiction between these two aspects of Platonism. One can say, generally, that in both cases Platonism leads to a kind of rigidity. Sometimes it is a rigidity of the future model toward which we strive (our utopia), and sometimes it is a rigidity of the present model (which leads to chauvinism and racism). I oppose both sides of the coin, and there is no contradiction: I simply oppose rigidities as such (I have a rigidity against rigidities). And as noted, I say this as someone who holds a Platonic stance on the purely philosophical plane (the existence of ideas).

The Commandment of Love in Halakhah

In column 22 I discussed several emotion-commandments in halakhah (there I referred to an article that expands on this). Regarding the commandment of love, I showed that its core lies in the intellect and not in emotion; in that sense these are what are called Platonic emotions. When I am commanded to love the Holy One, blessed be He, or to love one’s fellow or the convert, this is not a command to love a person who is a Jew or a convert, but to love him by virtue of his being a Jew or a convert. Put differently: to love his Jewishness or his convertedness.

It is easy to get from here to a Platonic reading whereby there is no duty to love people, but only to love ideas. But now I can sharpen that my intention is to a Socratic, not a Platonic, reading. In my understanding there is a duty to love concrete people on account of their being Jews or converts, not a duty to love Jewishness or convertedness. I will go further: one cannot love an idea. That is merely equivocation on the word “love” and a cover for misanthropy. People who love ideas do not love people. At most they love the ideas as they are expressed through people (“fellow travelers,” not friends). That is not love.

In light of what I explained in the previous column, this can be better understood. There I showed that the idea of horseness is not a horse and has no equine characteristics, and the idea of triangularity is not triangular. An idea has no characteristics. It contains characteristics; it is not described by them. Likewise, the idea of the good is not good; hence there is no obligation—and perhaps not even a possibility—to love it. I can, and am commanded to, love something that is good, but the idea of the good is not good. The object of loving the good should not be the idea of the good but an object (a person, or God) that is good. To love a person because he is good is a Socratic, not a Platonic, love. I love a pure (ideal) person because of the good in him; and insofar as that appears in the concrete person before me, I love him as well. But I do not love the good in him; I love him because of the good in him.

I am uncertain whether one can love an idea at all. Love is supposed to be directed toward some being, and the idea—even to a Platonist like me—is not such a being (horseness is not a horse, and humanity is not a human). But even if one can love an idea, it is clear to me there is no obligation to do so. The duty to love the good, or to love a Jew, or to love a convert, has as its object a person, not an idea. One who loves the Good (with shuruk), or convertedness, or Jewishness—but not the Jewish/convert/good person—is a Platonic misanthrope.

In my terminology here, one can say that the commandment to love the convert is directed toward a pure convert, but not toward the idea of convertedness (because love always relates to a person, not an idea). Such a convert likely does not truly exist, but this is a Platonic abstraction that describes the halakhic definition of the commandment. One must love the ideal convert, and from there, actual converts—because he appears in them.

So far I have dealt with the duties of love. To sharpen matters further, I will briefly discuss the duties and prohibitions of hatred.

Platonic Hatred and Socratic Hatred: Hatred in Halakhah

In halakhah there are chiefly two aspects of hatred: the prohibition to hate one’s fellow and the duty to hate evildoers.[3] Thus rules Maimonides (Hil. De’ot 6:5):

“Whoever hates one of Israel in his heart transgresses a negative commandment, as it is said: ‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart.’”

Some have understood Maimonides to mean that the prohibition is to keep the hatred in one’s heart, but there is no prohibition on hatred itself. Most decisors, however, agree that it is prohibited to hate a fellow Jew (in addition to the failure to fulfill the positive commandment to love one’s fellow).

Many decisors nevertheless understood that one is indeed commanded to hate an evildoer. The sugya in Pesahim (113b) discusses a case where one person saw his fellow commit a transgression and there is no second witness to join him. In such a situation he may not come and testify against him, since the testimony of a single witness is not accepted, and he would be merely spreading slander. But the Gemara adds that this witness is permitted to hate the offender:

“R. Shmuel bar Rav Yitzhak said in the name of Rav: it is permitted to hate him.”

The Gemara brings a proof from the verse concerning helping one’s enemy load and unload his donkey:

“As it is said (Ex. 23): ‘When you see the donkey of your enemy lying under its burden…’ What is ‘enemy’? If you say a gentile enemy—yet it was taught: ‘The “enemy” of whom they spoke is an Israelite, not a gentile.’ Rather, obviously an Israelite. And is one permitted to hate him? But it is written (Lev. 19): ‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart’! Rather, where there are witnesses that he committed a transgression—everyone hates him; what is different about this one? No, rather in a case like this: he alone saw in him a matter of sexual impropriety.”

That is, the verse “You shall not hate your brother in your heart” applies to a regular person; but an offender may be hated. A situation in which only one person hates so-and-so is precisely where that person alone saw him commit a sin and there is no second witness.

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzhak holds not only that it is permitted, but that it is even a mitzvah to hate him:

“Rav Naḥman bar Yitzhak said: It is a mitzvah to hate him, as it is said (Prov. 8): ‘Fear of the Lord [Masoret HaShas: [שנאת]] evil.’”

He learns this from the verse (Prov. 8:13):

“The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil; pride and arrogance and the way of evil and a perverse mouth do I hate.”

Others cite here the verse in Psalms (139:21–22):

“Do I not hate those who hate You, O Lord, and contend with those who rise up against You? I hate them with a perfect hatred; they have become my enemies.”

The commentators explain that the prohibition against hating a fellow Israelite is said of “your brother” (as in the verse)—that is, one who is your brother in Torah and mitzvot. A wicked person is not in the category of “your brother” (not “one who acts as your people”), so the prohibition does not apply to him, and there is even a duty to hate him.

But this would seem to contradict the sugya in Bava Metzia 32b, which brings a baraita:

“Come and hear: [Between] one whom you love to unload and one whom you hate to load—a mitzvah with the hater, in order to subdue his inclination.”

We see that if a person has a hater, he is obligated to work on his inclination so as not to hate him.

And Tosafot, s.v. “shera’ah,” in Pesahim there, raise a contradiction between the two sugyot:

“‘Who saw in him a matter of sexual impropriety’—but if you say that in Elu Metziot (B.M. 32b) we say: ‘[Between] one whom you love to unload and one whom you hate to load—a mitzvah with the hater in order to subdue his inclination’—how does ‘subduing his inclination’ apply here, since it is a mitzvah to hate him?”

From Pesahim we see that there is a mitzvah to hate him; so why must one subdue his inclination so as not to hate his fellow?[4]

Tosafot resolve the difficulty thus:

“One can say: Since he hates him, his fellow also comes to hate him, as it is written (Prov. 27): ‘As in water face answers to face, so the heart of man to man.’ As a result they may come to complete hatred, and therefore ‘subduing his inclination’ is relevant.”

Tosafot assume that even with respect to an offender one must not come to complete hatred. By helping him load, one helps oneself avoid reaching complete hatred toward the offender—which is prohibited.

What is the meaning of this “complete hatred”? Later authorities discuss this at length.[5] It would seem this should be explained as Platonic hatred: we must hate the wickedness in him, not him.

This also emerges from the Gemara (Berakhot 10a):

“There were hooligans in the neighborhood of R. Meir who were causing him much distress. R. Meir sought mercy that they die. Beruriah his wife said to him: What are you thinking? Because it is written (Ps. 104): ‘May sins cease (yittamu ḥata’im)’—does it say ‘sinners’ (ḥote’im)? It says ‘sins’ (ḥata’im)! Moreover, look at the end of the verse: ‘And the wicked will be no more.’ If sins cease—then ‘the wicked will be no more.’ Rather, pray for them to repent—and then ‘the wicked will be no more.’ He sought mercy for them, and they repented.”

Beruriah tells R. Meir to pray that his neighbors—who greatly tormented him—repent, rather than die. She offers a homiletic reading of the verse “May sins cease”—not sinners. It is the sins that must cease, not the sinners themselves.[6] So too, one should hate the wickedness, not the wicked.

Indeed, many commentators understood that this is hatred of the sin, not of the sinner. But I will say again here: an emotion is supposed to be directed toward a person, not toward an idea. The implication is that, even with respect to hatred (as we saw with love), there is a duty of Socratic hatred, not Platonic hatred. We do not hate the person—but we also do not hate merely his bad traits and his criminality (his being a sinner). We must hate the person himself on account of his traits. His being a sinner is the reason for the hatred toward him, but not the object of the hatred itself.

We can now see that this is precisely the same mistake that translates the command to love the convert into a love for the idea of convertedness. I explained that love (in its original halakhic sense, not in figurative senses) is directed toward people and not toward ideas. The same applies to hatred. There is a duty to hate evildoers themselves—but not with complete hatred, i.e., not hatred of him as a person, but hatred directed toward him on account of his being a sinner. Still, it is not hatred of wickedness; it is hatred of the wicked themselves.

Emotional Duality

One consequence of this definition is what the commentators write regarding the commandment of hatred: that we must love him as a Jew alongside hating him as a sinner (many explain Tosafot’s “not complete” hatred in Pesahim this way). My claim is that one can live in a state of emotional duality. And again, if the reading is Platonic, there is no contradiction at all: I love Jewishness and hate sin. The fact that both are embodied in one and the same person poses no problem, since on the Platonic plane the emotions are not directed toward the person but toward the ideas. But I claim there is a problem, since emotions are directed toward people and not toward ideas. These are Socratic, not Platonic, love and hatred. My claim is that Socratic hatred can also dwell side by side with Socratic love toward that same person—even though the emotions are directed to the person and not to his traits. I hate him because he is a sinner and love him because he is a Jew. This is a complex state and hard to implement in practice, but there is no contradiction.

To dissolve this seeming contradiction and to understand the commentators, there is no need to empty love and hatred of human content and turn them into Platonic, misanthropic emotions. Even if they are Socratic emotions directed toward people, this is entirely possible and certainly not contradictory: even if I hate the offender for his offending, there is no license to hate him as a person and as a Jew. I must hate him because of the offending in him and love him because of the Jewishness in him.

As I remarked above, I am not at all sure that one can truly feel such emotions toward ideas. The use of the term “love” here is equivocation. The idea of the good is not good and therefore not worthy of love. The idea of Jewishness is not Jewish and therefore not worthy of love. Love of an idea is not really love. In my view one can define and direct love toward the pure Jew (who is indeed a Jew, even if he does not exist in actuality but appears through concrete Jews), but not toward Jewishness. Yet even if, in principle, one can define an emotion toward an idea, I argue that the halakhic command surely concerns an emotion toward people, not toward ideas.

[1] In that column I discussed the question (raised by Sarah Stroud) whether one has an obligation toward a person by virtue of his being my friend, irrespective of his being a good and worthy person.

[2] One can, of course, justify doing harm to a few in order to bring good to many. In principle that is a legitimate consideration, but in practice movements of repair bring harm and suffering to many people and, in many cases, fail to bring the promised repair that would justify it.

[3] On this duty see “The Commandment to Hate the Wicked,” David Ben-Zion Klein, HaMa’ayan, Tishrei 5738; and in R. Yehuda Levi’s article, “‘Feed the Wicked and Let Him Die’ versus ‘Preventing from Transgression,’” HaMa’ayan, Tammuz 5771.

[4] Strictly speaking, one could have answered that the case concerns a person I hate without license, and therefore I must subdue my inclination. The common assumption is that the Torah does not address offenders; therefore the verse speaks of a legitimate “hater.” Yet in the parallel Tosafot in B.M. 32 it seems they indeed intended to resolve it this way:

“‘To subdue his inclination’—and if you say: since in Arvei Pesahim (there) it is established that it concerns an Israelite whom it is permitted to hate, such as where he saw in him a matter of sexual impropriety—what relevance is there to ‘subduing his inclination’? One can say: It is not speaking of the ‘hater’ in the verse.”

It seems they mean that in the verse it really is speaking of someone it is permitted to hate (because he is an offender), whereas the “hater” in Pesahim is a different one, as we suggested here.

[5] See Maimonides, Hil. Rotze’ah 13:13–14; Shulḥan Arukh, Ḥoshen Mishpat 282:11 and the commentaries; Hagahot Maimoniot, Hil. De’ot 6:3; Ḥafetz Ḥayyim 4:4 n. 14; Ḥazon Ish, Yoreh De’ah end of §2; Ben Adam Leḥavero I, pp. 200–272; Lere’akha Kamokha, mitzvat “Lo Tisna,” ch. 4; the book Tanya, ch. 32; Middot Re’iyah, “Love,” §§8–9, and there §§5–6, and more.

[6] The plain sense of the verse, of course, is that “sinners” are the sinning people. The teaching is a homily.


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68 תגובות

  1. Very fascinating and I heard it from you. A few things before the full review.

    A. I also asked in the previous column and still didn't understand the answer. A horse has the property of having a tail 10-15 cm long. How does this appear in the abstract ideal horse?
    B. The communist economist who accepts the market economy. You wondered about him, so what is between you and him? I was surprised by your amazement. Let's take the right to property, for example. One might think that the right to property is something true in itself (and is violated to a minimal extent in favor of necessities and acts of charity), or that the right to property is only an incentive so that the producer of the GNP will continue to produce GNP (leaving the money with its owner is charity so that he continues to produce). These and those admit that they will not take 0 percent tax even though there is a right to property and that they will not take 100 percent tax even though there is no right to property, but will the tax rate point and the way it is distributed for both sides be the same? Simply put, no [I personally completely identify with the words of that economist].
    C. Communism-Popper-Platonism. Presenting an anti-utopian argument (communists relate to people but utopia does not succeed) and presenting an anti-Platonic argument (communists do not relate to people enough for the sake of ideas). As for the anti-Platonic argument, it is a very new identification (for me) to identify communism with a Platonic interest (is this your historiosophical innovation?), simply everyone only cared about people and not any ideas.
    And the anti-utopian argument really does not concern Platonic ideas (it does concern the proposal for the rule of philosophers). The anti-utopian argument is not a ‘substantive’ argument but a statistical argument, as follows from Note 2 (a very important note): If it is clear that creating the forest will lead to more happiness for more trees, then it is perfectly reasonable to argue that it is worthwhile to run over a lot of trees. The problem is only that the running over of trees is done in cash, while the forest is a hypothesis on credit that may not exist, and then Popper claims that a correct expectancy calculation, that is, one that weighs skepticism in the right amount, means that running over is not worthwhile in terms of prosperity for more trees. On the other hand, there is another argument, which is that man is categorically different from a field tree and it is not justified to harm person A’ in order to benefit person B’ when there is no ‘natural’ connection between them (and this is an argument that, in my opinion, is really strange, but has already been discussed). Therefore, even if there is perfect knowledge, then it is forbidden to run over a lot of trees. [It always reminds me of my favorite book, The Bridge on the River Kwai, which takes local deontology to its extreme. A captive general who, in the name of values of diligence and loyalty, worked devotedly for his captors in building infrastructure for the war against his country]. Is the anti-utopian argument indeed only statistical or also deontological (essential)?
    D. Absolute hatred in the Tosafot in Pesach. You interpret Shari as a Socratic messianic because of his wickedness, and command to suppress his instincts in order not to reach the usual absolute hatred of the evil man himself. But the Tosafot justify the arrival of absolute hatred in the matter of "like water in the face". You present a projection from Socratic hatred to personal hatred, and this apparently does not depend on like water in the face. Therefore, I understand that the Tosafot describe a natural, two-sided process of increasing hatred (positive feedback). There are intensities of hatred, but the points of equilibrium are 0 and 100, not 60, because hatred gives rise to hatred and actions that deepen hatred. So Tosafot say that one should maintain moderation and not get carried away.
    In note 4, Tosafot explained in the BM that the verse deals with a person who is forbidden to hate with intent. But the Gemara in Pesachim explicitly assumes otherwise, namely that the Torah is not speaking of criminals (“and I will force you to hate me”). Apparently, Tosafot’s intention is the opposite, that the verse deals with a hater who is permitted to hate, while the Baraita Lekof Itzeru deals with a hater who is free and not a hater who is forced to hate.
    E. Note 6. In the context of the previous column on the relationship between Pesht and Darsha (does Darsha have any anchor in Pesht) I will try to explain the anchor for the Darsha (and this has probably already been addressed). First, a description of the problem. Sin (an abstract noun, like crime and transgression) is in the plural of sin, the התאים And once he stops carpentry, he is no longer a carpenter. Therefore, even if they repent, their sins will cease and they will become just people who sinned.

    1. I crawled and I saw in my spare time a thread to thread, what will happen after the full review, Rachel.
      A. I think I answered. The ideal horse does not have a certain length of tail (or has any length), unless there is an ideal length. What it necessarily has are the essential properties of horses (and perhaps a range of tail lengths).
      B. There is no line that distinguishes communists from those who are not. One can define 240% tax as communism and one can define it as capitalism.
      C. In my opinion, this is the root of Popper's identification. However, he assumed that if there is a utopia, there must be predation, and I add that this is not true, but there is also a disregard for people. I described such figures from life as well. The quantitative consideration in note 2 is important, because in my opinion the initial justification is the quantitative one, but the fact is that the communists did harm to people disproportionately to the good it could have brought. At some point you lose touch with people and remain attached to the idea in a platonic way. As I said, I described such characters from life. As they say about leftists who work all their lives for the weak, but only those who are very far from them.
      D. Like water on the face is a result. You may thus come to hate the person as he is. In any case, there is no need to put this in the Tos’. I am willing to say this on my own behalf as well.
      In note 4, I think this is what I wrote. Because it is permissible to hate him, it is not clear what his instinct should be forced. After all, it is permissible. I will change it, because the intention is not to hate Dkra but to hate the other. The verse speaks of those who are permitted to hate him.
      E. And yet the explanation is not as it says. You are only explaining the sermon further.

      1. Ahahaha. In your response, you wrote ‘ashneh’ from the word שיוניו, meaning that before it was written as אסר (I read עשְנהע from the word אשניה, like ‘שוב’ meaning explain again). But in my opinion, the correction of this one word is not enough and now the whole comment doesn't work out.

        1. Unnecessary and the wording there is good (only in the parentheses it should be said that he is ‘yes’ a criminal). If you could delete my last two comments, that would be great. Thank you

          1. [There is an anomaly here. I think that if you delete a comment, then the comments linked to it are deleted along with it. However, when there is some kind of restoration in the database, then the linked comments return, because there was no delete command in them, they are just not displayed, and restoration flattens the situation and then they reappear. I have encountered this several times and this is, in my opinion, the explanation. In other words, if you really want to delete, then you have to delete each comment on its own and you cannot be satisfied with uprooting it]

            1. And here https://mikyab.net/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%A0%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%93%D7%94-%D7%98%D7%9B%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%AA%D7%A8

      2. A. I still don't understand. Is it possible to sculpt the abstract ideal horse in marble? If it's not possible, then it's the idea. If it is possible, then it has a tail of a very specific length. A tail is of course an essential feature of a horse and it exists in all horses. I don't see how retreating towards an ideal tail helps here. Maybe trivial from what you wrote, but just to be sure - I understand from your words that it's impossible to sculpt it and yet it's different from the idea, is that right?

        [By the way. The difference between a first reading and a review is not always expressed in further responses. In a first reading, in addition to understanding what is written, which is probably the main point, there is also a mapping: what fits comfortably with what I think; what adds something new or complementary to the whole and doesn't actually conflict; what does conflict with what I think but at first glance the arguments don't seem bombastic enough to change a paradigm [this is where the responses usually sit]; And what does conflict and also raises serious difficulties that force me to stop and examine. After that, in a more complete study, there is some kind of attempt, within the limitations of the human fixation on opinion that has solidified over time, to mobilize some kind of such openness and also to consider exchanging something that I hold in exchange for something new that is offered. It is a kind of reflection that takes time to sink in. And just as writers and artists talk about a muse for creation, there is also a muse for conviction. Even when it occurs, it does not always occur immediately after hearing the arguments. And first of all, there is an anti. I wonder what in psychology causes this. There are rare cases in which there is a feeling of devotion already in the reading itself (for example, this happened to me in John Mill's pamphlet on utilitarianism. Every word is a pearl that entered the open shell). Therefore, typically, a more complete study is expressed, if at all, in deleting responses and not in additional writing.]

        1. A. Maybe it can be sculpted. As a tail, you can put any tail or an ideal tail (if there is one). But even if it can't be sculpted, it's not an idea. It can be sculpted when the statue includes only the essential features (and then we won't go over "You can't make a statue for yourself, because it would lack limbs").

          I enjoyed your comments on the first and second readings. As for Mill, he is a great writer and very systematic and well-structured. I recently read "On Liberty", and although most of the things seem obvious to our contemporaries, the systematic presentation is very impressive, especially against the background of the period in which it was written. When you are meticulous, you discover that it is very precise and closes almost all possible loopholes (the gaping mouths of oysters).

          1. Cow cow. First option, some kind of tail (let's say I chose 11 cm in length) I don't understand why this is what the one and only ideal horse has. Second option, an ideal tail doesn't help because an ideal horse's tail is a collection of horse hairs 10-15 cm long, so it's the same question (having length is essential for a horse's tail). Third option (probably) without a tail at all, clearly impossible because having a tail is essential for a horse. If it doesn't have a tail, then it also doesn't have a belly, ears, hooves, and everything. All that remains for it to be is the information that describes the collection of horses, that is, the idea as defined in the previous column. I don't understand the idea that it's impossible to sculpt and still "this is a horse" (maybe saying "this is a horse" three times in a row is a charm against the evil eye?). Who needs this ideal horse anyway?

            1. A. An ideal horse is a horse with a tail of any length. So you can choose any tail you want.
              B. I didn't understand. If there is an ideal length, then that's the length you choose. And if there is a range, choose randomly from it.
              C. Even if you "sculpt" a horse without a tail, it's not a real statue. Sculpt a horse with a tail of any length (not an arbitrarily chosen length, but a defined length. It's not a concrete statue). And that leads me to D: You can't sculpt it and it's still a horse. The reason for this is that it's an object, even if it's imaginary, and not an idea that's a collection of properties without a (theoretical) object that carries them. After all, even if you can sculpt it, the statue is not the ideal horse, but rather a representation of the ideal horse. So why is it important to sculpt it in order to exclude it from being an idea?
              I think if you apply the things to the examples I gave (misanthropy to the issue) it will come out clearer. I explained there that you can't love an idea but you can love a theoretical object. The idea of good is not good but the perfectly good object is good (therefore it is possible and appropriate to love it and appreciate it).

            2. Although I was not clear. I will return to this again with your permission for even more concrete clarifications.
              I observed all the horses and saw that the length of the tail can be 4 5 or 6 cm, and the diameter of the nostril can be 1 or 2 cm. So in the idea in the sections of tail and nostrils this is exactly what is written. (For simplicity, let's assume that the values are discrete. It is possible to make an extension from the explanation to a collection of continuous ranges that contain the discrete values). There is no dependence between the features and there may be six possible horses.
              Does the ideal horse look like one of these six? Is each of the six a representation of an ideal horse? Does an ideal horse have no tail at all and no nostrils?

              [Separately and independently, I recognize that a tail length of 4 and a snout diameter of 1 is the healthiest, most beautiful, strong, and fast horse, and is the perfect horse (I think the Greeks assumed a union of perfections, meaning that the most beautiful body is also the healthiest, etc. Or, unfortunately, that there is a body that is both the most beautiful and the healthiest, etc. I do not assume this, and it is not essential to the matter). As you explained, this does not concern an ideal horse at all.]

              1. To the [large] Talit – Greetings,

                The ideal horse's tail is no less than twelve large ones, as it is written: ‘You shall make tassels on your four wings – like your horse…’.

                Best regards, Ferdman Sosnowiecski the excavator

              2. Important insight. What about the diameter of the nozzle?

              3. To T”G – Shalom Rav,

                The diameter of the horse's nostrils will be determined by the amount of air needed for the horse's functioning, which requires a lot of air for its racing.

                With blessings, Pesach

              4. In the s”d y”a Bezio Ts”af

                L”g –shalom rav,

                And perhaps the idea that the physical horse represents in the material world is its soul? Just as a person's soul is not the limbs and nostrils, but the thoughts and feelings – blood for a horse – Pom Draga Delia has unique thoughts and feelings and character traits, which are truly ‘in the horse’, whose body is only a vehicle for their expression?

                With the blessing of ‘Kol Tzahala and Rina’,
                Eliezer Lipman Sosnowiec-Dehari
                (Owner of the Old Platform)

              5. That is, is it something unique to each and every horse, and not common to all horses together?

              6. I wrote this only for Eliezer Lipman. But what can someone who doesn't understand do? I've heard of an idea and a perfect horse, I've heard of a pure horse here for the first time, although from what you've said it seems like this is an ancient concept. For some reason the token refuses to fall for me, and until it does, I have no pure horses.

              7. In the Bible and in the words of the Sages, we find that the characteristics of the horse express human characteristics. The horse is a symbol of Egypt, both in pride and in lust, and for this reason the king was forbidden to multiply horses for himself lest he return the people from Egypt.

                The horse expresses man's confidence in his power and the strength of his hand, and therefore the prophet Nebuchadnezzar says of the return of the people of Israel to their God: ‘Assyria will not save us on a horse; we will not ride on it, nor will we say any more, Our God is the work of our hands’

                On the other hand, the horse expresses nobility and honor. A man whom the king wishes to visit – his honor is expressed by riding a horse. Even Elijah ascends in a storm to heaven in a &#8217charket of fire and horses of fire’.

                In the chapter on the seer (Berachot 50:2), the seer compares the vision of a red horse, which is a bad sign for him, and a good sign for him. In contrast, a white horse, whether chased or at ease, is a good sign for him. The red horse expresses warlikeness, while the white horse expresses honor and nobility (see Malbim Zechariah 1:6).

                In the Zohar, the letters of the Torah are likened to horses of fire, and the seer explains (Orot HaTorah 5:4):

                Horses of fire are not equal to the Torah in what a person does not attain from the depth of the idea by his own power. The power of creation is increased by its connection with the letter in the Torah, and rises much higher than its power, such as the speed and safety of travel by vehicle.

                There is a person who walks on foot, who walks by the power of his study in the theoretical matters of the Torah in general, and is not helped in understanding the things by the letters of the Torah. And there is someone who does not have the strength to walk, and walks on the steps of the Torah even in those matters that are simple and worthy of a person who walks on foot, by his own strength.

                And there is someone who walks everywhere he has the strength to walk, and uses the steps of the Torah not because of his weakness, but rather as a rider on a horse for honor, in order to further embellish matters, or to ride in a place that cannot be reached by one's own strength, but by adding the requirement to the letters of the Torah.

                The letters of the Torah give a person strength, speed and confidence, which reinforce and confirm what a person reaches with his own eyes and understanding, but also allow a person to reach deeper insights, which he would not have reached solely through his own efforts.

                With greetings, Eliezer Lipman Sosnowiecsky Dahari

              8. In paragraph 9, line 4
                … which he would not have reached with his own eyes alone.

              9. On the second day of Passover, Tishrei

                And when all the Gentiles go up to Jerusalem for the feast, the prophet's vision will be fulfilled: "On that day there will be a holy thing on the bells of the horses to the Lord" (Zechariah 14:20). The early ones interpreted that the ornaments on the horses' foreheads or the bells on their necks would also be consecrated by the pilgrims to be instruments of service with which to offer a sacrifice to the Lord.

                In this way, the "bells of the horses" - symbols of glory and pride - will be consecrated by their being "vessels of service" for the sacrifice. However, according to the Seer: ‘This is the measure of every person, but there is an even higher level, and it is the elevation of all the filth to holiness. This is the measure of the most exalted of the righteous, and the measure expected for the world in the hand of the Exalted, “On that day there will be on the horses' bellies a holy thing to the Lord”‘ (Shemona Kitabs 4:3).

                The horse itself – with all the pride and joy, the ornament of its splendor – will be elevated to being a carrier and a guide to holiness. The horse will carry the holy crown on its forehead, as it leads the pilgrims to the House of the Lord, and even upon its return home, the horse will extend the bond of holiness to wherever the horse runs and gives shelter’. The work of the Lord With pride and joy, Noy and Hadar – brings man closer to holiness, and holiness to man.

                With the blessing of ‘Kol Tzahala Verina’, Els”d

              10. Paragraph 2, line 6
                … expected for the world in its sublime future, …

                Paragraph 3, line 5
                … The horse will expand the boundary of holiness…

              11. Interesting is the translation by Jonathan, who translated ‘Metzlot HaSos’ – ‘Brorin D'Susia’. It seems that ’Metzlot’ comes from the root ‘Zlal’, in the sense of ‘Zlul’ = ‘Clear’. Perhaps the ornament is so named because it sparkles? Or perhaps it is a tool used to clean and polish the horse's skin?

                Greetings, Yaffo”r.

              12. 'מצלות הסוס' - שריוניו (ר' תנחום הירושלמי) says:

                R’ Tanchum in Yerushalmi (in his commentary on Teri Esher, from Hadassah 6) elaborates and brings several suggestions from commentators and discusses them.

                Some have interpreted that the ’horse's hooves’ are its forehead, or ‘its sides that cast shadows on the earth’. And R’ Tanchum is puzzled: ‘And it is not acceptable to call a horse by a name that is written on it “Sacred to the Lord”‘., and concludes that the horse will be unnecessary in the absence of wars and therefore will be dedicated to God.

                After R’ Tanchum brings additional interpretations – saddles, with runes for decoration, bells – He ‘suggests: ‘And in my opinion, this is not from the decoration of the horse. In my opinion, the best thing about what they said about it is that it is a device that is worn on its face and sides to protect it during battles. And they were called that because they sway when they walk, and they make a sound and rustle, as they called the cymbals…’.

                If there are no wars, the ‘horse shields’, the armor that protects it, will be redundant, and they ‘will be dedicated to God the Exalted and will be written on them “Holy to God”, or they will be melted down and made into cauldrons for the pilgrims, and they will write this on them’

                In short: ‘And they will beat their armor into cauldrons’ 🙂

                With best regards, Amioz Yaron Schnitzel

              13. And Rabbi Abarbanel suggests

                It is more correct to interpret that the holiness of the nations and their submission before God will be so great that not only will the people call on the name of God with their mouths as they go up to Jerusalem, but also on the bells of the horses, which are the jingling bells [= bells] that they will hang around their necks as they go up, they will write and engrave on them “Holy to God,” in order to advertise that they are among the celebrants, because in their eyes this will be an honor and glory.

                And in modern language: Pilgrims from all nations will affix a sticker “Holy to God” on their “vehicles” to advertise their faith in God.

                Amen in our day, so be it!

                With the blessing of “L”B Simcha’, Simcha Fish”L Halevi Plankton

              14. R’ Mendel Hirsch (son of R”R) in his commentary on the Haftorah, sees here the vision of the appearance of holiness also in mundane life:

                ‘On that day, when the difference between humanity and Israel has already disappeared, the difference between mundane and holy will also disappear. Everything that is holy, because it was dedicated to its Creator, the Blessed One – does not have this holiness, but in order to be a tool for the sanctification of life.

                Here we look to a time when everything, even the simplest – and not in Jewish language: “the most mundane” – will be holy, will serve the ’. So much so that the thing that today declares before the forehead of the High Priest about “holy to the Lord” – Then he will announce on every bell, on the “salvation of the horse”: “Holy to the Lord”

                And the words are close to the words of the Rabbi in the eight volumes of the book of Leviticus, which I quoted above.

                With the blessing of the sanctification of life, Avishai Lipman Sosnowitzky Dehari

              15. In the 32nd of Omer, 5th of September

                I mentioned the Yonatan translation (according to the text of the Mikraot Gedolot HaKeter?) which translated ‘Bharurot Nesusia’, and I raised the hypothesis that this is one of the horse's grooming tools.

                In the regular Mikraot Gedolot it is written ‘Keruvat Susiya’, and perhaps this is from the phrase ‘Hitzul ve Borach’ (Klim 21) which are from the tools of the plow.

                Based on this, it is perhaps possible to suggest that ’Metzulot HaSozul’ are ‘Zizulyu’, the poles to which the horse is harnessed.

                And perhaps the Dawa on the Zizuli Setes would be written ‘Kedesh Ha’ To declare that the power of the horse will no longer be harnessed for negative purposes such as wars and the like, but for peaceful purposes, for transporting passengers or plowing.

                Just as the tools of war will become agricultural tools, so the war horses will be harnessed for peaceful purposes only.

                Best regards, Lipa Pawisz Sosnowiec Dahari

              16. According to the meaning of ‘tsol’, a pole to which the animal is harnessed, it is perhaps possible to interpret what is written in Job 11: ‘His skin was filled with scales, and his head with fish scales’, where the scales are a device used to catch fish by the head.

                Perhaps also what is described in Gideon's dream ‘the sound of barley bread being turned over in the camp’, it is possible that ’tsol’ is a stirrup or a skewer with which the bread is held while it is being turned over during the baking process.

                With greetings, Philso”d

              17. Yes.
                Regarding the translation of the horse's cymbals. According to the version of ‘Brorin’, you interpreted clear as clear. The interpretation clear in the sense of clear seems to me to be neither biblical nor wise. On the Keter website, the version ‘Brorin’, perhaps it is from the language of a pillow on the horse's back and interpreted cymbals as covering, that is, covering the horse's back.
                Interpreting cymbals in biblical language as yizol in the language of the wise is a bit too demanding, both in terms of language and in terms of the matter.
                The verse is difficult, but I prefer the Rad”k interpretation (as usual). You brought it and I will also write it to show its advantage. On that day, the cymbals on the horse, which are metal bells that ring, will be instruments for the service of the Temple. And the pots that people have in the house will be consecrated and used as syringes to collect the abundant blood. And every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord’ Armies. And in this the verses are closely connected in one matter. However, the language ‘on the cymbals of the horse’ is difficult (and the interpretation that writes ‘holy to the Lord’ on the cymbals of the horse is better). And it seems that the interpretation of the cymbals of the horse is like the cymbals on the horse, like they will come up on my altar to my will, which means they will come up on my altar to my will.
                Regarding the sound of barley bread and the sound of fish, his head, there is no reason to interpret all the various appearances of the basic root ‘shadow’ in one and the same sense. The sound of fish in Job, the more plausible interpretation (in my opinion) is from the word shadow, in accordance with the beginning of the verse, it was filled with the sukkahs of his skin, as the Ramban brought. And the verse deals with fishermen who fill their sukkah on the shore with the spoils of their fishing and praises the prowess of the whale that the fishermen cannot. And it fits the nearby verse that they will not be crossed among Canaanites (merchants), more than it fits the distant verses that a fishhook will not be placed in his nose. And if they interpret a tool for catching fish (as in modern language), then it rings for itself and not necessarily because it rings. The sound of barley bread is not better than the interpretation of the translation and the tongue is roasted like a cake of sevfim.

              18. And by the way, I will add something.
                In one of his poems about sailing to Israel, Riel wrote, “And when the ship spread its wings, it passed through me like the wings of a stork.” That is, the ship’s sails seemed to Riel as if they were his wings. I once saw someone who was amazed by Riel’s picturesque expression. And he did not know, as usual, from the Bible, which he had taken, that it says, “O land, let your wings ring.” And the interpreter of the translation, “The sails of the ships that are stretched out and are like wings to the ship rang.”
                Similarly, Ibn Gabirol wrote, “My fathers are tired of being dogs to my shepherd.” That is, the people there are so despicable in his eyes that even their ancestors are not worthy of being dogs to guard Rashba's flock, a sign of the difference in dignity between them. And someone once referred to this as a kind of innovation by Rashba, indicating his wrath and the greatness of his pride, etc. And it is a verse in Job, "I hated their ancestors to lie with my sheepdogs," which Rashba placed exactly according to its context there in the entire chapter and in the entire poem. There are many examples of this matter.

              19. On the eve of the 3rd of Omer, Tish'af

                From Haman's offer to take the 'horse that the king rode and on whose head a royal crown was placed' it follows that an ornament was placed on the head of the king's horse, which expressed its being 'the king's horse'.

                See Amos Chacham in Da'at Mikra, there, referring to the book 'Pnei 'A'lam Mikra,' which provides images of ornaments placed on the head of the king's horse, which in his opinion the author of the scroll calls 'the royal crown'.

                It is worth noting that 'nazar' is not necessarily a 'k'er'. The crest on the forehead of the High Priest is also called the crown of the holy crown, and the anointing oil on the head of the High Priest is called the anointing oil of the Holy One, and the hair of the priest is called the head of his nazarite. Here too, it is possible that the crown of royalty on the head of the royal horse is called the crown of royalty.

                The book The Face of the World of the Bible is in my possession, but it is possible that the decoration of the royal horse was a gold plate on its forehead, like the crest of the High Priest. And R. Mendel Hirsch has already discussed the writing, “Holy to the Lord,” which is reminiscent of the crest of the king.

                Perhaps the kings of the nations who will ascend to Jerusalem will adorn their horses not with the symbol of the king but with the words ‘Holy to the Lord” to symbolize that the true king is the King of kings, and there is no other.

                With greetings, Philosopher”

              20. And what is the idea of the mare?
                “You are like my mare in Pharaoh's chariots, my shepherd” (She”S)

              21. So for the sake of continuing the clarification process (as long as the candle is lit. How come they don't charge a subscription fee here?) can we assume that each of the billions of hypothetical horse forms that can be imagined is a form of some purebred horse?

  2. Is the following related to Platonism in Halacha: There is an opinion that impurity is a “separate matter,” that is, a type of reality in itself, and from this one can derive implications (that nullification by majority is beneficial for impurity of contact but not impurity of burden, as explained in the Gemara. This is explained in Chapter 3, Chapter 8. This is a long matter and depends on very complex and obscure issues in Bitzah 38 and Kirot 23, which I happened to have the opportunity to deal with recently). Is this attitude towards impurity like light and energy, which are physical and non-Platonic terms, or is it like the chalot of a man’s wife (which you defined in the article on chalot), or is it something in between?

    1. Impurity is certainly not a physical concept but a metaphysical one. Just like filth. It can be seen as a kind of idea. Light and energy are physical concepts since they have an effect on physics.

      1. If impurity is a Platonic matter, then R’ Shimon's explanation there is a fine example of a Platonic use of halacha. Normally, one can get by without the notion that there is a halacha as a subject (i.e., even if there is a subject, it does not affect the laws, but comes in accordance with the laws). But in the chapter there, R’ Shimon actually draws implications from the fact that impurity is a separate matter (and in this he explains an obscure gemara in the Kirot that Tosafot are very much pushed into, and an obscure halacha in the Rambam that the Rav and the vessel bearer stood like a still liquid, etc.).

        1. This does not seem to me to be any different from the implications I presented in the article on challah, or from a discussion of the meanings of law in haftza (such as vows or holy consecrations).

          1. What about the law that prohibitions cancel each other out (a slanderer remains and a slanderer is impure, and one who eats is exempt). Does it necessarily indicate a concept of halal (and halal is different for each prohibition), or even if there is only a law “do not eat,” then because the reasons are different, a cancellation applies (just as loving because of conversion, so not eating because of revelation).

            1. I do not see the necessity of depending on the cancellation of prohibitions because it is a metaphysical prohibition. The law of cancellation can also be explained by the fact that the Torah does not require you to lose too much money, and therefore if a little prohibition falls into the majority of the prohibition, if everything is prohibited, you will lose a lot of the prohibition in order to avoid a little prohibition. Therefore, the Torah permits. This should be discussed, since one must spend all one's money in order not to violate a prohibition, and this too should be rejected. But this is an example of an explanation that does not depend on ontological assumptions.
              Although this is true only with regard to the cancellation of a prohibition by permission. The cancellation of a prohibition by prohibition is perhaps an extension of the cancellation of a prohibition by permission. After all, a kosher thatch also cancels an impermissible thatch (Bersh”y Reish Sukkah).

              1. What is the broad meaning of canceling a prohibition with permission? Regarding the issue of kosher thatch, I understand that you are bringing from there the issue of whether cancellation is only useful for canceling prohibitions or also for renewing laws (most threads woven for the sake of God will make valid a minority of threads woven for the sake of God), but I did not understand what you came to infer from there (when the laws are different, then it is clear that cancellation applies even without hallots).

              2. And when there are different prohibitions? It's the same thing. There too, cancellation applies even without expirations.
                Oh, I understand. You say that different laws are prohibition and permission, and your question is only about prohibition within prohibition (different). I don't see a fundamental difference (although I thought it didn't apply to different prohibitions, but it also doesn't apply to kosher and invalid – because you don't throw them in the trash and lose money. As mentioned, my thought was just a demonstration).

          2. Now I think that perhaps this is related to the sophisticated combinations of Mashesa Kalvo that you presented in one of the columns that according to the penni Yehoshua is exempt (and by the way, I interpret it differently in the penni vedal as the Ayelet Hashachar understood it). Three handfuls of figol remain and are impure. The problem is only a warning of doubt, meaning that in a certain place in the mouth, when chewing, most of the figol remains and a small amount remains, then the remainder becomes figol and the food passes through because of figol and not because of the remainder. This is the innovation there, because prohibitions cancel each other out and a warning of doubt is not a warning. But why wasn't it said that even without chewing, if he has three handfuls of figol on his plate that remain and are impure and the prohibition was not recognized, then it is permissible to eat because each of the specific prohibitions is nullified by a majority that is not it (just as the majority of the remainder cancels a small amount of prohibition, so the majority of "not figol" will cancel a small amount of figol). It seems to me that there is something to be said here.

            1. Of course, one can argue, but this is another example of types of explanation that do not depend on metaphysics and Platonism.

  3. You are satisfied with whether it is possible to love an idea, and say that the commandment to love a stranger is a Socratic love of the stranger himself. But what about the love of God? I saw that you wrote in the past (column 22) that this is not love for the object, isn't this about love for the divine idea/adherence to His will? Is it love for the object as implied here?
    It is difficult to say that love for God is only the actions themselves, there is a commandment here about an emotion that should be expressed in actions.
    And perhaps if so, all love (including love for a stranger) is also love for the idea that should also be expressed in love for the individual from the standpoint of being part of the idea (say, a person who is disgusted by the idea of a stranger cannot maintain love for a stranger even if he loves a stranger especially because the Torah commanded to love a stranger especially). And just as it is possible to have a utopia without trampling on people, so it is possible to love the idea without ignoring the love of the details - a Platonic, not misanthropic emotion
    Thank you very much

    1. I intentionally did not deal with God here, as I doubt whether it is possible to distinguish between the ideal object and the idea in Him at all. He is a singular object, and therefore it is not clear whether He has an idea at all. And He Himself is also an ideal object. Therefore, this is Socratic love by definition. Is it an emotion? I touched on this there.

      1. On the 24th of Omer, 5th of September

        Ramada, – Peace be upon you,

        Can't you love an idea? After all, ‘love of the higher’ is love for the person who carries and applies the good quality, and from the father of the idea we come to love the person who serves as a dwelling place for that idea. As the philosopher said: ‘Love Aristotle, love Plato. The truth is – more loved’.

        With greetings, Simcha Fish’l Halevi Plankton

        And there is also love for a person who does not yet actually carry the idea, but has the potential to grow and become one of the bearers of the idea. And so is a newborn baby, lovable because ‘created in the image of God’ And because ‘he was given a tool, he has a tool of delight’. He is beloved because of the virtue inherent in him to grow to glory and be one of the implementers of the idea. The love of future virtue.

        1. Indeed, that is what I wrote. An idea cannot be loved. The love of an idea is a borrowed name for the love of the bearers of the idea. The good in itself is not worthy of love, since the good (in Shoruk) is not good and did not choose to be so. So what is there to love about it? Surely there is no value and obligation to love it. A person who carries this idea is worthy of love.
          Just for example, you do not love saltiness as an idea. You love salty foods because of their saltiness.

          1. In the 24th of Omer, 5221

            Ramdat, a – Hello,

            You assume that there is a value and an obligation to love only those who have chosen to carry the virtue, and this may be true if we discuss the side of duty and value. But love is first and foremost a natural emotion that stems from the pleasure that the lover has from the beloved.

            Therefore, a person loves food because of its taste that it guarantees him, even though the food did not choose the taste, and a person loves those who are good and nice to him because they make his life pleasant, and a person loves wisdom because he delights in the knowledge and clarity it gives him, and a person loves a work of art because of his delight in its beauty.

            In addition to the natural feeling, there is the moral demand to love someone who has chosen goodness, and then, for example, a person who is by nature terribly stingy and hurtful, and we notice that he stubbornly overcomes his nature and tries not to hurt - then we will love him for his strong efforts, even though in reality we find it much more pleasant to be in the company of someone whose goodness is natural.

            Best regards, Zusha Liv Salzman

            1. Zusha. I think that someone who never offends is actually the type of person who is difficult to be friends with.
              A distant and polite collegial relationship does not involve any harm, and perhaps it is actually more comfortable to work with impeccably polite people (I work with several Canadians, and their absolute politeness even when I actually said nonsense or lingered on something too long, and correspondingly the compulsion for me to always maintain politeness even when I am actually quite impatient, is actually very annoying), but more serious friendships and, let alone relationships, involve (at least from what happens to me, maybe I am the exception) also exposure to vulnerability and a certain freedom to offend. If real feelings and real opinions have to be constantly covered up and restrained, it is both exhausting and uncomfortable and does not allow for true recognition. A person is also evident in his anger, and I want to get to know my friends for real. It is clear that sometimes we still hold back and absorb, etc. And I really don't think that every momentary stomach juice should be spilled out in the name of something as dirty as the inner truth, but going to the extreme in the direction of politeness is not good at all, at least in my opinion. There is of course a difference between types of relationships, colleagues/neighbors, friends, friends/family, students, and the like, but still in general I think the rule you described is the opposite. Someone who only knows how to be good and smile is a turn in the queue of neighbors who are waved at at the entrance to the supermarket, nothing more.

              1. In Rabbi Mikhi's words, this is a "museum approach." If someone treats me like a museum, I too should treat them that way (sometimes), and this is actually exhausting and alienating. Perhaps on the Diyonim website, it's different from life itself (which we get to live thanks to the Prime Minister's wonderful leadership).

              2. On the 24th of the Omer, 5575

                Let's go to the GOT TAGA,

                But there is a middle ground between extreme politeness that leads to indifference and alienation (or the appearance of it) and uncontrolled frankness that leads to anger and bitterness

                Both salt and sugar are not eaten separately and in large quantities, but are used in a controlled and measured manner. When you put a little of them in – they give a good flavor to a drink or dish. But when you put a lot of them in – then it is ‘dish fever’.

                Even for maror, there is a mitzvah from the best to take horseradish, which is the lettuce whose bitterness is slight and refined. And one of my friends told me, on behalf of his relative, that when you put more than a teaspoon of sugar in tea – you ruin the taste.

                And from the parable to the parable. Criticism should be mixed with a lot of understanding and appreciation, and then it is received with respect, understanding, and sometimes even with agreement.

                Best regards, Zissel Leibisch Salzmann-Corinaldi

              3. אהבה סוקרטית מחמת המעלה) ואהבה קסנופונית (מחמת האחריות) says:

                And if we defined love for a virtuous man as Socratic love, then we can define the love that comes from responsibility and investment as Xenophonian love, named after Xenophon, a student of Socrates, who took responsibility as a senior commander for the safe return of the ten Greek soldiers to their homeland, as described in his book The Great Expedition (Anabasis).

                A mob of retreating mercenaries is not exactly the height of human virtue, but the sense of responsibility for brothers in arms and the investment in returning them to their homeland despite the dangers and adventures deepens in the heart of the giver and the investor a great love for the people he has cared for.

                This type of love is the love of parents for their children and teachers for their students. A love that begins with responsibility and investment, and in many cases the investment bears fruit and also becomes the love of virtue for the children and students.

                Best regards, Yaron Fishel Ordner

  4. It's fun to play with shadows. You can imagine many shapes in shadows, just like in clouds.
    But it gets boring after you understand the principle.

      1. I gave examples, not an explanation that I really intend to stand behind. My goal was only to show that there is no need to assume something ontitious.
        For example, one can explain, as R. Gedaliah Nadel did, that in a general view of a mixture, a person gives it a name according to the majority in it. If there is a majority of permissible and within it a minority of forbidden, then the entire mixture has a permissible name. And so it is with regard to kosher and impermissible thatch or various prohibitions that cancel each other out. There is no lack of explanations of one kind or another, and I see no need to assume something ontitious.

        1. I accept this (although the initial, stilted explanation is still halyut).

          It seems that the Posk came up with the idea of basing the discussions concerning Platonism on one principle, and it is interesting to know what this principle is.

          1. The principle is to make a firm statement and then retire peacefully and respectfully. This is the same principle for all discussions, not just discussions about platonicity.

          2. The principle is simple.
            Do you want a theory that says nothing to be accepted?
            Make sure to satisfy or stimulate the urges.
            The urge wants something beautiful? Give it the most beautiful.
            The urge wants more, give it infinity.
            And so on.

            That way no one will object because it suits them and it suits them that the universe has the potential to satisfy them.

            This is all in the imagination, from a practical point of view it is meaningless. There was no development in reality that was developed on the basis of the nonsense mentioned here, such as perfect practical ideas and the like.

            The only thing that is stimulated by this is the urge through the imagination that the words create.

            1. In the 17th century, Ir Tashaf

              Here is a – Shalom Rabbi,

              As a clear-eyed judge who has nothing before him but what his eyes see’ – you refuse to err in imagining a better and higher reality towards which one must strive and advance.

              In contrast to the judge who firmly rules that ’what was is what will be’ and there is never any solution but to lie on one's back ‘without dreams and without hopes’ – stands the creator who sees before his mind a better, more aligned and happier reality, which the creator strives to realize.

              And contrary to what you say, no real development has ever occurred in the world without someone envisioning that the world is capable of development and cultivation, of correction and improvement.

              Of course, a beautiful dream for a wonderful future is not enough. The wonderful future grows from the reality of the ‘here and now’. It is impossible for a person to create ‘something from nothing’. The creator must study reality well so that he can take tools from it to improve it. He who detaches himself from reality and ’jumps over the navel’ is liable to fall, but he who walks gently, one step at a time – progresses and advances.

              On his way to realizing his dream, the creator needs a close judge, who will clarify to him without illusions the existing limitations, practical and ethical, a resolute judge who will not let the creator take uncalculated risks, and will not let him act by improper means to achieve his goal.

              The creator who looks to the future needs a posek who will illuminate the present, but the posek must not think that he is the last posek whose gray exit he encounters is the end of a verse. The posek sees in his edited shohan a work shohan on which the creator will begin his creation.

              With blessings, Padhatzur Fishel Peri-Gan

              And at a gathering of rabbis held to mark the beginning of the Daf Yomi project, Rabbi Meir Shapira called one of the rabbis whose wife was the daughter of his rabbi in his youth. And he said: Tell your wife not to underestimate a child's dreams. He said that he conceived the idea for the Daf Yomi while he was a child studying with his rabbi. The rabbi's daughter, who was already a grown girl, laughed at the boy's imaginary dreams, and now the dream came true, and in the decades that have passed since then, the number of Daf Yomi students has increased immeasurably.

              1. Paragraph 6, line 2
                … He is the ‘final judge’, that the gray reality…

                Ibid., line 3
                … The judge sees his prepared desk as a ‘workbench” on which the creator will begin his creation.

              2. My words referred to the lies and shattered theories spread by those with sophisticated imaginations and powers of seduction.
                I did not see anything in my words that harms the desire to imagine a better world and thereby improve the world. For this, one does not need to invent strange and strange statues and idols. One only needs to imagine, to will, and to do.

  5. The ten Sefirot of Kabbalah can be seen as Platonic ideas of the divine qualities.

  6. “The foundation of love of Israel is love of goodness and kindness, and their practical existence towards others. One must look at others while tolerantly ignoring the evil in them, emphasizing the good. In no way is the intention to flatter the wicked and ignore their wickedness, but one must see the good in them. Therefore, zeal is permitted only when it is pure and does not contain any hatred of Israel. However, the path of zeal that is based on hatred – has no place among us, and it goes against the spirit of original Judaism. In the soul of the nation – the soul of Israel, there is no living deficiency, flaws exist only in the details and not in general, and therefore the root of love of Israel for the whole nation exists and will exist forever” (Herchatiya, Or LeNetivati, 67)
    Platonic or Socratic love or both together?
    And what is between ‘permitted zeal’ And resolute, predatory utopias?

    1. I will say in advance that I do not agree with his words, neither with the denial of fanaticism that is based on hatred nor with the fact that flaws exist only in details and not in general (whatever their meaning may be). But if his intention is that one should love the whole of Israel and not the details, that is what I addressed in the column. I estimate that I simply phrased it imprecisely.
      The question regarding fanaticism is broad and there is no place here to offer general definitions. As a rule, fanaticism is permissible where you do not use it against other opinions or to promote your own opinions, but only against evil.

      1. Perhaps he meant that the love of the individual or the prohibition to hate him (by the way, in today's sense) is a derivative of the love of the whole.
        Socratic love is a derivative of the love of the Platonic idea. Or its practical expression.

    2. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation, to the children of the third generation.

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