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Confused? Change the Axes (Column 382)

With God’s help

Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.

Until now I ignored the elections we went through. After all, one can’t write a column every time there are elections, otherwise I’d never deal with anything else. Still, I have a few thoughts in the wake of the latest results, and I hope you’ll allow me to share them with you. I’m quite sure you won’t be surprised, but I do think some of you may find them useful.

The confusion

The results of the recent elections have sent our public discourse into a tailspin. Apocalyptic prophecies—or just embarrassments, confusions, and misunderstandings—keep popping up from every direction: Who won—right or left? Who are the good guys and who are the bad? What even is “right” and what is “left”? Who here is a racist-chauvinist lowlife, and who a postmodern lowlife? Who here is religious-Zionist and who is enlightened? (And are those really opposites?) Did minorities win or the majority? Who even are the minorities and who is the majority here? How exactly do Mansour Abbas and the Muslim Brotherhood join the religious-Zionist-racist-chauvinist pole and form a coalition with it for Bibi and Likud? How is it that so many people want and expect Bennett and Sa’ar—who are to the right of Bibi—to build with their own hands a left-wing government with Meretz and the Joint List?

Some think that Bibi the man created all this confusion with his own corrupt hands. The entire political split is for or against Bibi, and it dwarfs all the other axes of disagreement. If not for him, everything would have lined up according to the familiar axes, and there’d be no confusion. With all due respect to his abilities and talents and the strong feelings he evokes for or against, I find it hard to accept such a thesis. There’s something deeper here that needs clarification at the root. At most, Bibi helped reveal it; he didn’t create it.

Examples of confusion on two planes: the general political and the religious

This morning someone sent me what Amit Segal wrote on his Telegram channel:

One Wish Rightward

The second round was a tragedy, the third a farce, the fourth is already a sitcom: the great dream of Israel’s left camp right now is to form a government headed by the man who brought the idea of annexation into Israeli politics. And the pinnacle of the right’s hopes is a coalition dependent on the grace of the Shura Council. You can also flip it: the left will mourn bitterly if an Arab party gains unprecedented influence, and the right will sit shiva if Prime Minister Bennett and his deputy Sa’ar take the reins of power. We live in wondrous times.

After a week of sterile play in midfield, the picture is clearing: next spring, the only government that can arise is one supported by both Bennett and Ra’am. The numbers don’t add up for any other coalition. Both sides want Bennett, and he has formulated his demands. The first of them: at least a one-year term as prime minister, with him serving first in the rotation.

The likelihood that this demand will be met is much higher in a coalition with the center-left than with Netanyahu. This is the point at which Bennett’s seven seats and rare bargaining position become wealth kept to the owner’s detriment: on the right, the Yamina chair is approaching the point where he will be burned permanently and branded a traitor. On the left, they offer him both a dream and a nightmare. His lifelong dream as a politician is to be prime minister; his nightmares as a right-winger are the government he is being offered to head: Meretz, Labor, Lapid, with Arab support. He understands well that this would be a short-lived and bloody-minded government, since any party could extort money and legislation at will. He is supposed to establish the government the left wants, and the left is supposed to choose the prime minister the religious right wants. Eshkol Nevo once wrote a book about a group in which each person got something other than what he asked for. Its title, by the way: One Wish Rightward.

Netanyahu is offering him less: the Defense Ministry, a handful of portfolios, entry into Likud through the front gate, maybe also deputy prime minister. But Bennett still hesitates. Left-wing party leaders who spoke with him this week offered to recommend him to the president on condition that he publicly declare a final break with Netanyahu. In return, they heard a noncommittal hum. If he continues like this, Lapid will get more recommenders. In that case, the president will not be able to task Bennett with forming the government. It’s more likely he’ll go with the majority of recommenders, even if that means granting the mandate to Netanyahu. It’s not clear which of the two will be more astonished—the assigner or the assignee.

That is a description of the confusion on the general political map. Within the religious map, the confusion is no smaller. Here is what the filmmaker Yair Lipschitz wrote on Facebook:

It annoys me that I’m even thinking about the “Noam” party. Like, what do I have to do with it other than some biographical intersection somewhere in the past that is also receding away? And even then, when I was part of what we called (ironically but also a bit not) “our community,” Rabbi Tau was the antagonist, someone whose social power we recognized but also somewhat mocked, because it was clear his conservatism belonged to the past. Understand, kids: in the nineties the sense of time was such that progressivism marked the future. That’s gotten a bit scrambled since, but that’s how it was, believe me.

In any case, I remember that even then what struck me as odd was that in the split between Tau and the Har HaMor yeshiva and the Mercaz HaRav yeshiva—which was ostensibly over establishing a rabbinic training institute in the yeshiva—the rebels from Har HaMor belonged to the more conservative side. That was odd to me because somehow in my consciousness back then, revolution was supposed to lead forward and not backward—because, you know, kids, the nineties, etc.

But it turns out that was the seed of a trend that then had barely sprouted. That same year I began my studies in the Theater Department at Tel Aviv University, and in the first class of “Introduction to Jewish, Hebrew, and Israeli Theater,” Prof. Shimon Levy read us headlines from that morning’s paper so we’d think a bit about where we live. Among the headlines was the report about the split in the Mercaz yeshiva, and he said something like, “And don’t think that what’s happening in the Kiryat Moshe neighborhood of Jerusalem isn’t relevant to all your lives.” And I, still part of “our community,” was surprised that in this secular stronghold he found it worth noting the marginal quarrel about a rabbinic institute in a conservative yeshiva.

And here we are, 24 years and 948376598092398757 election cycles later, and it turns out how prescient he was. Time moves in stranger ways than I thought in the nineties.

There are more voices from within the religious camp who feel confused in the face of the unholy and repulsive union between the musty religious diehards of the old NRP, the nationalists à la Smotrich, the racists à la Ben-Gvir, and the chauvinist-homophobes à la Avi Maoz, Rabbi Tau, and “Noam.” “Is this religious-Zionism?” they ask themselves. “Is that where I belong?” It seems to me (and maybe that’s just my wishful thinking?!) that a not insignificant portion of the six mandates that voted for this benighted and repugnant bunch feel such feelings, but belonging and identification lead them to vomit and, pardon me, diarrhea (!) that ballot slip into the box. When one sees the wondrous unity among all parts of religious-Zionism—a marvelous blend of chauvinism and racism with nationalist pathos—how can one stand idly by?! Who can behold this wondrous unity with the longed-for peace of generations and not join? Why, that would be betrayal of the camp.

It seems to me that the recent elections illustrated perfectly the words of the late Rabbi Steinsaltz:

The ballot box is one of two places one enters when no one is watching, drops something smelly, and leaves. It’s important, it’s necessary, but there’s no need to talk too much about what I did there.

A word hewn in stone. I fully agree—except for the four words: “it’s important” and “it’s necessary.”

In any case, this is a description of confusion on the general political plane and on the religious plane. New and surprising (apparently) coalitions are forming, and it’s no wonder that people are perplexed and find it hard to define where they stand, who is with us and who is against us. But before I get into the confusion itself, a few side notes.

My response to Yair Lipschitz

In response to Yair Lipschitz’s words, I wrote the following:

Nonsense. It doesn’t touch anyone’s life. And it’s also not about the split. Rabbi Tau was always like that; the only question is whether it’s mixed into Mercaz or separate from it. Finally, I have an update for him: there have been many revolutions in the past that turned backward. Maybe most of them. Communism didn’t, but in Zionism there’s certainly a return from exile to the Bible, and in the Reformation it’s all backward, and in Islam the main revolutionary thrust is backward. Classicism and romance of the past are excellent fuel for revolutions. Revolutionaries who invent values face forward, but revolutionaries who strive to realize existing values usually draw from the (idealized?) past.

I then added that I don’t understand the surprise and the intense reaction to the election results. None of this has anything to do with Netanyahu in any way. No one can deny that there’s a very large group in the public that espouses these views, whether or not it has political expression (marginal: one MK in a fringe party). Those who represent all these values more powerfully are the Haredim, and there are dozens of MKs like that. How does Avi Maoz change anything on the map? The Haredim also do not give women a place, are in favor of stoning gays (and certainly restricting their steps), and of course most of them are dyed-in-the-wool racists (because of their conception of Judaism). And I haven’t even mentioned the Arabs—particularly the Muslims—who also espouse all these exalted values. But for some reason we’ve gotten used to all those, and only Avi Maoz’s election is the new Shoah.

So what do we have here? The Hardal (Haredi-nationalist) segment with other traditionalist add-ons together with Haredi society and with Muslim conservatism comprise, in my estimate, at least 30% of Israel’s public (and that’s an underestimate, in my view). All these indeed espouse chauvinism toward women, restricting the steps of gays, and the Jewish part among them also restricting the steps of Arabs. Except that until now, all this had no expression in the political arena. Arabs aren’t heard in the public discourse, Haredim don’t speak about their views regarding women and gays because they’re more pragmatic and more intelligent than “our” obscurantists, and what remains is Avi Maoz of “Noam” and its satellites, who are ready to speak about it out loud.

If you look at it this way, then what happened up to these elections is the real surprise: they succeeded in silencing some thirty or forty percent of the public and denying them a political voice. Now one marginal MK walks in and says out loud what something like three million muzzled citizens have been thinking for many years already (truly Gideon Hausner, isn’t it?), and the feeling is that the Flood has come. Very odd.

And again, these views repel me. They are benighted and racist and ought to be fought with all our might. But silencing them is of no use. It only hides the problem and doesn’t solve it. True, our PC cousins think that if something isn’t said then it doesn’t exist, and therefore changing the discourse is the solution to all our ills, but I see no reason to adopt this drivel. On the contrary, it’s important to air things out and give them media and political expression so that we can contend with them and put forward counter-arguments. Unless you’re Don Quixote and Sancho—or Rabbi Tau—it will be very hard to fight against someone who doesn’t exist.

Changing the religious coordinate system

It seems to me that the main conclusion from all this confusion is the need to change our coordinate system. Many (relatively) religious-Zionists feel that as long as this exists among Haredim then it’s “them” and not “us.” But “Noam” is ours! It is the flesh and blood of religious-Zionism; that’s why it’s more worrying and infuriating. But this is, of course, a mistake. “Noam” is exactly the same “them” as the Haredim, only with a knitted kippah and one extra Hallel a year (plus ecstatic dances—avizraihu of idolatry—before a president, prime minister, and IDF chief on Jerusalem Day). They are nothing but Haredim with knitted kippot, with an added pinch of idolatry and a florid, pathetic language that reflects total disconnect from reality (what they call a “holy perspective”).

This confusion reflects a problem of anachronism in our conceptual framework. The ideological and religious groups are defined by a coordinate system that is not relevant today. “Religious-Zionism,” for example, is a term that reflects an uninteresting and irrelevant division between those who recite Hallel on the 5th of Iyar and those who don’t. But the relevant division is between modern religiosity (Modern Orthodox and liberal Haredim) and conservative religiosity (ideological Haredim and Hardalim). Just think where you would place R. S. R. Hirsch and Rabbi Breuer on your map. That is the more important and relevant axis in our day (let’s remind ourselves of a forgotten fact: the state has already been established), and when you look at reality through it, you discover that—at least in the religious sphere—the confusion disappears entirely. I’ve written about this more than once, and showed it clearly here, for example, in a discussion of the attitudes different groups showed toward the latest elections for the Chief Rabbis.

When you clarify the real coordinate system and don’t cling to slogans and ideas that defined the axes in the past, everything becomes simpler. A religious-Zionist should ask himself whether he is conservative or not, and based on that decide whether he should vote for Smotrich’s benighted racists or for some other party. He can reach the conclusion that although he recites Hallel on Independence Day, he is not prepared to persecute gays and see the New Israel Fund under every green tree, nor to adhere to the delusional writings and diktats of Rabbi Tau. Suddenly we understand that they are not “us” but “them,” and everything calms down. In sum, a very large conservative population in Israel received a minimal political expression. Nothing new happened. One can and should fight those views, but there’s no reason to panic over the election results, and certainly no reason to attribute this to Bibi. It’s unrelated to him, aside from the fact that he is the main magnet for excluded minorities.

Contrary to the demagogic excuses from the left (and the attacks on Avishai Ben-Haim), Bibi really does belong to a minority excluded from the media discourse, hence the strong identification with him. The votes for him and the coalitionary clustering of excluded minorities around him begin and end there—not in the “big,” classic questions of right and left. Whether you accept it or deny it, this is a war against the elites. That’s all.

And in general, apocalypticism always harms just causes. People feel that if they ignore the biased treatment Bibi gets in the media (and it seems to me in the judicial system as well), that strengthens their struggle. But no—it strengthens him. It paints him as a martyred saint and those against him as persecutors. Thus his image as the authentic representative of persecuted minorities is reinforced, and again and again he wins the most votes in elections. The apocalyptic magnification that “Noam” creates around the New Israel Fund and the liberal forces also works to its detriment. Seemingly it strengthens the camp and spurs it to act. But in fact it causes anyone who warns against PC and the calumnies of the New Israel Fund to look delusional. I, who share the feelings about bias against the right and about the violent silencing practiced by the LGBTQ community and PC discourse and its associated ills, am not prepared to identify with Rabbi Tau’s dark, delusional flyers and the axis of evil (there’s your apocalyptic amplification). The black-and-white sketch ruins every good plot of land; it dulls the discourse and the disagreements instead of sharpening them. It bears considerable responsibility for the confusion everyone feels after the elections.

Changing the political coordinate system

The same holds for the general political field, not only its religious dimension. The conflation of political conservatism with social conservatism creates confusion. The focus on security-diplomatic questions creates confusion. The traditional divisions between right and left (at least in Israel) come from the security-diplomatic field, but those aren’t very important questions right now. The question of what to do with the Palestinians is a halakhah for the messianic era, because nothing is on the table at the moment. The main struggle is over society in Israel, not the diplomatic arena.

When you see that the coalition forming around Bibi is a coalition of persecuted minority groups that all espouse social conservatism and receive no expression in public discourse, it immediately becomes clear what Mansour Abbas has to do with “Noam,” with Ben-Gvir, with Haredim and Hardalim. As I explained, voting for Bibi in no way reflects a diplomatic or security agenda. Anyone who wants the right should vote for Bennett and Sa’ar, not for Bibi (who, in policy and deeds, is a centrist—though in his demagogic rhetoric he, of course, winks at the right-wing electorate). But voting for him does not express right-wing worldviews—or worldviews at all—but rather a sense of exclusion and deprivation and a war against the elites (pardon me for stealing Avishai Ben-Haim’s very correct thesis)[1]. By the way, the same goes for voting against him.

The link between the two planes

From the previous paragraphs you could gather that there is a connection between the confusion in the two planes. The religious confusion is a special case of the general political confusion and entirely connected to it.

Rabbi Froman z”l spoke long ago about the natural coalition between Hamas and religious Judaism—two groups that can cooperate against secular liberalism (and I don’t know which of them frightens me more). His apocalyptic vision is these days taking on flesh before our astonished (and very worried) eyes. Fortunately, for now, Rabbi Tau and “Noam” are confused and are themselves captive to the mixed-up conceptual system that they themselves labor to maintain with great zeal. Hence they too (for now) are not prepared to enter a coalition with Abbas. But that could (politically) pass for them—or (ideologically) be adopted—and then “darkness will cover the earth and thick gloom the peoples.” For “the Lord will not forsake His people and will not abandon His heritage.” Give thanks to the Lord for He is good—He blinds the eyes of His enemies, keeps the feet of His servants, and binds the hands of His foes.

Suddenly it becomes clear and is laid on the table what was hidden from us in media and public discourse until today. Before our eyes stands proudly the fact that most of Israel’s public belongs to excluded minorities, and the clustering of these groups creates a worrying majority of dark fundamentalism. The problem is not that these minorities are finally given the right to speak and be heard and finally have political representation. That’s the good part of these election results and of broader processes happening in recent years also in the media and generally (as Kalman Liebskind wrote, there too, as part of the representation for excluded minorities, weeds are entering that have nothing to do with journalism). The problem is the very existence of such worldviews. In short, it’s not Avi Maoz and Ben-Gvir but their voters. Silencing these voices only strengthens them, and it seems to me it’s what brought us to this point. The way to contend with these dark views is not concealment and silencing but direct confrontation: examining our religious worldviews, and whether it is really right to cling to anachronistic, chauvinist, and racist interpretations—or whether we can refresh (and slim down) our tradition. In that sense I’m very happy about the new coalitions now forming. It’s time to demolish the old social and ideological structures and coalitions and update them for our time.

In this morning’s discussion with Chayuta that sparked this column, she raised Rabbi Kook’s well-known saying—when there is a great war in the world, the messianic force awakens. That messianic force means change, tectonic shift, and perhaps also renewal and repair. I have always thought that peace and unity of opinions are very dangerous (the Sages thought so too—hence they said that in a court where everyone rules death, the defendant goes free). This campish identification that strengthens at the sight of the wondrous harmony of opinions across the entire camp (each one contributing his ugliness to create the overall colorful picture) is, to me, a truly despicable process. War is great—down with unity. We already learned from Mohar”r Shauli that the only fitting solution now is a civil war (a wonderful bit—go watch).

[1] The criticisms and mockery of him also reflect a lack of understanding. They “prove” to him that Bibi is not an excluded minority, and not even Mizrahi. But none of that is relevant. Bibi, like Begin before him, is “Mizrahi” in the sense that he is the chief fighter against the Ashkenazi leftist elites that exclude him. In public consciousness (and in reality) that is entirely true, and it does not depend at all on the facts regarding Bibi’s economic and social status or background. The criticisms of Ben-Haim are simply a lack of understanding, at best, or demagoguery and disregard for the (cognitive and factual) reality, at worst.

40 תגובות

  1. In addition to the ideological ”change in the MP system” the threshold should be lowered or abolished, and then the purists will be able to say: X is not one of us, despite the outward resemblance, he is in another party.

    P.S. “Noam” is a clear example of a movement that arose as a response to a progressive drift in public discourse. Let's say that now the average religious person doesn't care about his secular brothers who eat worms. If suddenly eating worms becomes an agenda and is adopted by government ministries, including a “workshop for understanding worms and their nutritional value” in Ham”d, a movement will arise that will fight it loudly.

  2. The most intriguing and puzzling part is the reaction of the liberal public - instead of fighting Bibi's problematic partners (Shas, G, Ra'em, Noam, herself) they are investing the full extent of the struggle in Bibi himself, to the point of being willing to wear the shtreimel to oust Bibi.
    Ab's thesis is certainly correct, but the phenomenon from the liberal side is still too puzzling.

  3. [I may be one of the slobs, but still. In my opinion, the no less interesting division is between economically strong groups and economically weak groups (who receive transfer payments in a hundred different and strange ways). In the long run, this is much more important than any kind of values that people enjoy climbing the barricades for, and this is also what I think underlies the stubbornness not to fence off the sectors, each in its own territory, as much as possible. The economy is the engine of every achievement in the world and it is also what is actually common to all citizens, even more so than security, and it seems to me that in the end that is why everyone is always fighting. That is why I am a pretty enthusiastic supporter of factionalism and polarization and division. Weakening inter-tribal civil ties is an important strategic goal in my opinion, in contrast to the sticky excess of brotherhood that exists today in our funny country. The common idea of high walls and good neighbors also applies between sectors. It is only because of the fiction that there is something great in common that people are especially interested in what is happening in the other. And if there was no economic sharing, no one would have any significant reason to be interested in their neighbor's bubble more than in another country's bubble.]

    1. [I probably missed your closing sentence, “War is beauty, so is unity.” But it seems you are aiming for an ideological war to enrich the discourse so that in the end the positions will become clearer and hopefully reach a broader common denominator. I would prefer to phrase it as “Distance is beauty, so is closeness.” War and unity are two sides of the same counterfeit coin. ]

  4. As someone who was part of the ”sector”, but left it, and in my experience I was expelled from it (although of course objectively this did not happen), and this is because of feminism and liberalism.
    I must say on the one hand, that your nightmare of secular liberalism is my vision, so our views do not match. But on the other hand, I see your enormous courage to say these things from within the sector. And I really appreciate it.
    It is very jarring for me to see internal sectoral criticism of Noam and their ilk that is always accompanied by reservations, apologies, as if they are a full cart and the rest of the public is an empty cart racing down a slope.
    Thank you

    1. You probably didn't understand my position. I am completely in favor of liberalism, and I don't think it is the preserve of the secular. I am against silencing, and the persecution and political correctness that go with it. And in general, against hysteria.

  5. The main problem with Ben-Haim's thesis is that he goes too far with it and claims to interpret through it all the events that have occurred since the establishment of the state until today. For example, he claims that the entire event of the Netanyahu trial is an attempt by the first Israel to suppress the second Israel through legal violence.

  6. Not a word about the racist and homophobic Liberman, not a word about the right-wing Saar, whose imaginary coalition, or that of Bennett, will be squeezed by those minorities and will prepare everything, including everything, the main thing is that their desire to see Bibi come out of Balfour is fulfilled.
    And where does the line begin where exclusion is legitimate, why is a religious person who does not encourage LGBTQI and expresses reservations a dark racist, and a person who opposes pedophilia is enlightened, let people live and let them go!! As long as you interfere with them in certain things, and you do not prepare their desires and even imprison them in pens for their natural instincts, you are no less dark, arguing about harm because the minor is not intelligent enough is nonsense that has no basis.
    Nitzan Horowitz's support for the Hague Tribunal also receives caresses and media silence because he is from the community and holy holy will say.
    The political blunder stems from a number of losers whose lust for revenge has taken over their heads, from Avigdor Lieberman to Balkin and Saar. Lieberman made the biggest deals with the Haredim when the Arabs were on the roulette wheel. Everyone else will give in and make even bigger deals with the most extremists if their wet dream of seeing Bibi outside Balfour comes true. The only person with an ideology in the Knesset today is Merav Michaeli, and she too will make deals with the Haredim if half of her lust is fulfilled.

  7. Those who like to see the other side.. Here is the response of the site owner from just a week ago..
    I don't see a moral and ethical problem in a political decision to lean on someone, as long as it's not a harmful and corrupt person because of the damage he will cause (not the actual leaning, which only looks bad and has an educational but not essential flaw). The agreements should strive in the best possible way under the existing circumstances for the goals that the party wants to achieve. Therefore, I see no problem in leaning on the RAAM as long as the government's policies are the best in the current circumstances. But I certainly do see a problem in leaning on the Likud.
    https://mikyab.net/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA/%d7%a4%d7%95%d7%9c%d7%99%d7%98%d7%99%d7%a7%d7%94

    The agenda of only Bibi, all the other vegetables on the haredim and the Arabs are currently apparently serving the agenda.

  8. A brilliant analysis in my opinion. And by the way, Avishai Ben-Haim's thesis, the fact that Bibi went through all the elite stations and accumulated points there (General Staff, Academy, English, etc.) gives him an even stronger status. Like Moses, who grew up in Pharaoh's house, the masses know how to appreciate someone who could have defected to the opposing side but who bravely absorbs the arrows of criticism from the old elite in favor of the oppressed Jewish masses.

  9. I just saw in Yair Lifshitz's Facebook column that you brought the response of Prof. Vered Noam, a researcher of Second Temple sects (among other things), and this is a different story –
    Vered Noam
    Rebellious and rebellious sects tend to be more strict, and to be outraged by the light-headedness and frivolity of the mainstream. See the Judean Desert sect that attacked the Pharisees for ”choosing easily” and ”good-necked”, meaning taking it easy and seeking the good life. Lites..

    1. And by the way, when I quoted Rabbi Kook's words, I really didn't mean what Mr. Shauli said above, but rather that war (even an election war) shakes reality, throws it to the ceiling and causes it to fall and rearrange itself in threes - and by the way, in this way, it makes us understand it better (and of course re-organize it in axes, or in trenches, or in any appropriate scientific-literary-historical structure).

  10. Excuse me, but I think the rabbi is doing something to the Noam party (which I am not a supporter of) that you usually oppose. As far as I understand from their platform, they are only demanding that there be no imposition of values on society and no re-education. They do not seem to object (as if something is asking them) to being gay, etc. Also with regard to women, the demand is that a person be appointed to a position based on their qualifications and not their gender. There is no demand for the narrowing of the steps of either women or those who are better off. Therefore, calling them dark and anti-women does not seem appropriate to me, just as someone who opposes the law against conversion therapy (double negative) is not a homophobe but an advocate of freedom, and someone who demands transparency in the High Court is not an enemy of democracy. That is how we will end up

  11. Beautiful things, but I fear that the religious confusion is intentional, or unfortunately, unintentional, and good for her. Noam is the greatest gift of the moderate wing of religious Zionism, because she is taking the discourse on gays back. It is easy to object to the encouragement of conversion therapy, to conspiracies about the destruction of the institution of the family, and to the filthy rhetoric from Noam's seminary. It is more difficult to say what is true, what kind of life the liberal/moderate religious stream offers to the religious gay, whether he has the possibility of a life of partnership, sexuality, and family, etc. In the above respects, there is no epsilon small enough in the world to distinguish between the rabbis of Mount Moriah and the rabbis of Tzohar.

    1. What is certain is that treating a homosexual (religious in other respects or secular, it doesn't matter) is no worse than eating a cheeseburger.

      1. Without expressing an opinion on the comparison itself, is this really the case? Would a religious person who invites family and secular friends to his home also invite a gay man with his partner and children to his home? I don't think this is the case (however, this is already a second-order reference, I was mainly talking about the matter itself, what do they have to offer a gay man who is strict about the matter, besides a life of solitude, monasticism, and celibacy)

        1. You asked for a small epsilon and you got a huge epsilon (they won't despise him, they won't deny him public recognition and budgeting like other couples, they won't try to make him go through the torture of conversion, they won't hang epidemics and wars on him and they won't treat him as a walking danger to society. These are things that Noam's sweet and pleasant people will try to promote). Now you're also asking for a big zeta (that he will invite home with his partner near the children) and that may indeed not be the case. By the way, it's not certain that he will also bring a cheeseburger near the children. And it's not certain that everyone will keep him away from the children and the like (then there is a zeta too).
          If (today) there is nothing to offer a practical permit for a homosexual who is strict about the matter, that's a completely different matter. That's (still) the halakha itself and not additions and inventions. Right now it's like the halakha doesn't have much to offer a bastard

          1. I didn't ask for anything, I tried to describe the reality as I see it. I also didn't ignore the rhetorical and political differences (is there really a religious public that is willing to publicly recognize such a relationship? I doubt it. Budgeting under the table is something that even Noam can accommodate), but I argued that it is convenient to drag the discussion to them in order to ignore the issues that in my opinion are more important and significant. As Rabbi Avraham noted, Noam's political power is null and void at thirty or forty, and therefore dealing with it is unnecessary, the epsilon is large but the measure is 0.
            If this is the halacha and there is nothing to be done, then at least we can't obscure it with words that are flattering on the one hand and pride in the slander of Noam's people on the other (or at least not attribute to them what is not in them, which if I were not a demstephina I would say that there is a hint of that in your response as well. Are Noam's people really disparaging the single gay man? From my acquaintance with some of them, this is absolutely not true).

  12. I find your support for Avishai Ben-Haim appalling. In my opinion, he is an anti-intellectual (he recently wrote that Karl Popper is dry, boring, and unimportant). Why do you think he is right? What makes the oppressors in his doctrine one group? What and what makes the oppressed one group? You cannot define the groups simply by not being in the other group. He simply took the existing war between the right and the left (and the emphasis on the left being an elite that oppresses the minority) and gave them other names, Israel the First and the Second.

    1. To Oren – Hello Rabbi,

      Regarding Avishai Ben-Haim's attitude towards Karl Popper, it is dry and boring. Our teacher and rabbi and the crown of our head, Ramada, have already taught us that Karl Popper is read in the recitation of the Sha”tz. And herein lies the profound difference.

      When the recitation of the Sha”tz is recited dryly and hastily, as with our Ashkenazi brothers – it is clear that Popper is much more interesting. But when one hears the recitation of the Sha”tz with a melody and evening melody, as with our Sephardic brothers – the heart warms up, and finds no need or interest in Popper's musings, which are read without melody and repeated without singing 🙂

      With blessings, Ben-Zion Yochanan Halevi Radetzky

      1. In the 23rd of Nisan, 2011, the interesting innovation in these elections is that Abbas Mansour has changed direction. From the traditional role of the Arab parties in the country to promote leftist rule, which naturally supports sweeping concessions in the direction of establishing a Palestinian state, Ra'am has become a sectoral party, which has no central interest in outlining the government's policy on foreign and security issues, and its main interest is in promoting the affairs of the sector it represents, regulating illegal settlement and fighting organized crime in Arab society. The Arab parties were the successors of Ra'ah, the communist party that saw itself as representing the advancement of the struggle against the Zionist imperialist occupation and the advancement of the left. From a revolutionary perspective, the worse it is for the Arab public – the greater its revolutionary motivation. The worse it is for the people – the better for the revolution 🙂

        Mansur Abbas simply learned from the Haredi factions, who, with their aversion to both right-wing and left-wing Zionism, and with the tendency of a significant part of them to a less right-wing policy in the areas of foreign and security – in the political sphere, what interests them is the interest of the sector – budgets for Torah and educational institutions and better conditions for obtaining housing at prices that are possible for the Haredi public to afford.

        Abbas decided to adopt the method and exploit his position as a ’tongue of balances’ to promote the interests of his voters, and leave the affairs of high politics in the hands of those with real power – The powers, the US, the EU and Putin, that they will already take care of the advancement of the Palestinian cause. It is possible that Mansour Abbas and his envoys secretly understand that the welfare of the Palestinian people will be better served by the Zionist kingdom of mercy than by the murderous Fatah or Hamas.

        In short, my analysis can be defined as: ‘The course of ideas in Ishmael’ 🙂

        With greetings, Shams Razel, Qubat al-Najma

        1. On the other hand, there is also the precedent of Hamas, which Israel initially supported and encouraged as an organization engaged in religious, educational, and social activity, in the expectation that engaging the frustrated youth in positive activity would prevent them from turning to the terrorist cause, and the end is known.

          In short: the question of the feasibility of cooperation with Mansour Abbas is not simple.

          Best regards, Sharz

          1. On Mansour Abbas and his teacher Sheikh Abdullah Nimr Darwish, see the article by Orientalist Dr. Nasiya Rubinstein-Sherman, Dr. Mansour Abbas: True Gospel or a Trick?, on the Channel 7 website.

            Best regards, Sharz

            1. However, see the article 'The Real Mansour Abbas', which quotes his words in Arabic (translated by Assaf Gibor), which show his view of the Palestinians as 'survivors of the Nakba'. It seems that pragmatism and willingness to cooperate with Israeli society do not make him forget and unite his aspiration to unite with the 'great Arab nation'.

              Best regards, Sharz

              1. It is possible that Mansour Abbas' willingness to consider cooperation with the right is also related to the fact that the left sees Mahmoud Abbas (known as 'Abu Mazen') as its natural ally, who is perceived by them as more 'moderate' than the Islamic elements. A strong right in Israel means weakening the secular element in the Palestinian Authority and strengthening the Islamic forces,

                In short: Mansour Abbas vs. Mahmoud Abbas 🙂

                With greetings, Shams Razel, Qubat a-Najma

              2. On the first day of Iyar, I think there is a way to have a broad right-wing government that will include both Smotrich and Saar, in a way that Netanyahu will also maintain his political status as Likud chairman.

                Netanyahu will continue to be Likud chairman, with a ‘political leadership’ working alongside him, which will determine the Likud states led by the government and which will include senior Likud members.

                The chairman and the ’political leadership’ of the Likud will elect a deputy chairman’ That he would form a temporary government (until Netanyahu is fully acquitted) led by the Likud, with a commitment from the Likud's 'temporary leader' and 'temporary leader' to obey the decisions of the political leadership led by Netanyahu, and to make way for the chairman when Netanyahu is acquitted by the court.

                This situation would ostensibly allow Gideon Sa'ar and Co. to join the Likud-led government, since there is no way that the prime minister is on trial, but would leave the political leadership of the Likud in Netanyahu's hands.

                Best regards, Yaron Fishel Ordner

                For the sake of the trial against him, it is advisable for Netanyahu to be more knowledgeable about the evidence and study it well so that he can add significant information to his lawyers and so that when he gives his testimony, he will control the material and present a clear and consistent position that will impress the judges. Ultimately, even if a person is sure of his eligibility, he must overcome a mask of opposing evidence, and the more focused he is on the subject, the more effective his defense will be.

    2. Oren, since I don't refer to a person's body, I'm not bothered by what horrifies you and what not, but only by the arguments you raise. Nor am I interested in Ben-Haim's shortcomings as a person, or his attitude towards Popper, or whether he is an intellectual or not, but only by his arguments. I wrote that he is exaggerating, but his fundamental argument is completely correct. Disturbing? Life is hard. Get over it.

  13. You invite us to accept a system of axes of liberalism versus conservatism instead of the “traditional divisions between right and left, which are taken (at least in Israel) from the security-political field, but these are not very important questions today”
    I disagree. It shows us another perspective, but the emphasis is on “more”. You are essentially replacing one simplification with another. The situation is more complex.
    For example, both religious Zionism (the list) and Yamina have been talking mainly recently about governance within the Green Line – especially in the Negev and the Galilee – thefts from private homes and IDF bases, agricultural terrorism, protectionism, etc. .. This is an issue that greatly disturbs the residents of these areas and it is a relevant issue. The attitude towards terrorists (also in Judea and Samaria, where it is a daily occurrence) is still relevant. These are “projects” of the right. I don't see a right-wing government that wants to advance these issues (in security and homeland security) doing it together with Abbas' party.

    Each party rides on several axes (the main ones being right-left and liberal-conservative and perhaps a few more) and the question
    is what conflicts between them are tolerable (ideologically/pragmatically/apparently) so that it will be possible to form a working coalition.

    1. I'm not talking about the problem of simplification at all. On the contrary, any sharp ideological division along any axis will be simplistic, and there is no way out of this. Politics must be conducted on the basis of rough axes. The question is which is the main axis along which it is correct to give the simplistic description (the watershed): nationalism or liberalism. In other words: is it religious Zionism or modern-orthodox? And here, in my opinion, the answer is very clear.
      And by the way, the question of governance really does not cross between today's right and left. It is a smear campaign carried out by liars on the right (like Bibi, the biggest liar of all). The right-wing government does not reveal more governance. On the contrary, left-wing governments were more governing. And in general, there is no contradiction between enforcing the law on Arabs and leftism, and I am not speaking only theoretically but also in reality. The right talks about it (as about everything else. The right, since Jabotinsky, has been strong mainly in talk) but does nothing. This is another reason why the important axis is the axis I described and the political axis is almost irrelevant.

      1. Okay, now it's clear. I agree with you about the first paragraph.
        Regarding the governance – Nowadays it's true and the fantasies of Ben Gvir and the real right will not come true as long as Netanyahu is in power, but again – The problem is Netanyahu/Likud and not the right. And I don't see Yesh Atid, Labor and Meretz making an effort on this. It seems they are making an effort to hide and minimize (in the media) the problems I wrote about. By the governance of the left you may mean Olmert (the second Levon War, the explosion of the reactor in Syria, Cast Lead..) but it seems to me that he is a left that is a little different from the left we are familiar with.

      2. As usual, your honor is an interesting and original writer.
        Still, I didn't understand, do you think all those who are excluded (development towns, etc.) are against homosexuals and those who exclude women?
        Are they only excluded on these issues?

        And another thing, don't you think that among Netana's voters there are people who are not excluded, but educated people who simply think that he is doing well and is much more competent than his alternatives?

        1. It's been a while since I wrote the column, and I don't know what exactly your words refer to.
          No generalization is completely correct. Generalizations are tested through large numbers, not through total accuracy. Are all the excluded people against gays and are they excluded from women? What's the matter?!
          It's clear that among his voters there are people who are not excluded and educated. What's the question?!

  14. The rabbi is wrong. The real axis here is not conservatism versus liberalism but conservatism versus progressivism (which is even more fanatical than conservatism). And since the progressives are the enemies of the Jewish nation (in fact, the enemies of any nation whatsoever, as long as it is a nation. They want to erase the concepts of nationhood) and want to erase the name of Israel (the state of all its citizens. Which the rabbi also wants in his heart, which he says is not obvious), and thus they are enemies of Israel in spirit - not only because they want to dehumanize the people of Israel, but because they want to deprive it of its national cohesion - its nationality (and the name Israel will no longer be mentioned) - therefore these axes truly represent, in the end, those for the people of Israel versus those against it. And the fact that Smotrich is ultimately unwilling to sit with Abbas.

    Liberalism in itself is fine (I am in principle a bit of a liberal), but as we see it, the progressive parties (Labor and Martz) are the ones leading the left in Israel. It seems that at the legislative level, Lapid and Gantz are also following them. And now Saar (whose house is dating an Arab). They have a reflex to do everything opposite of what the conservative right believes in. And the opposite of conservatism is progressivism. Just as the opposite of religiosity is not secularism but anti-religion (which is a religion in itself). In fact, just as the rabbi wrote in his book that modernism contained within it the seeds of postmodernism and the latter grew out of the former and is its natural continuation, so too did progressivism grow out of liberalism and the latter grew out of the former and is its natural continuation.

    So perhaps Likud voters are right that the left are traitors. Or at least at this rate of madness, when will they be like that (see Mordechai Vanunu's entry). The Rabbi also shows signs like this here on the site, which develop over time. The Rabbi will put his ways to his heart.

  15. Whenever I hear Benjamin Netanyahu promise, or rather threaten, to form an “all-right” government, I am reminded of Menachem Begin, who abhorred the term “right.” He never used it to define himself or his party in its incarnations: the Herut Movement, the Gahal, the Likud.

    For Begin, this was not a semantic matter; he refused to call himself “right” not only because he believed that the order of sitting established for the French National Assembly did not bind him, but for two deeper reasons, implicit precisely in the combination of words he chose to use as a substitute: national-liberal.

    Begin, the first leader of the Likud, rightly believed that there was no connection between the idea of the complete Land of Israel (the "completeness of the homeland," in his language) and a deep Jewish national consciousness, and a right-wing ideology in particular. "Right-wing" is a term devoid of any Jewish, Zionist, or Land of Israel context. But the second reason was no less important to him: Begin and his movement were liberals no less than nationalists. What do we have to do with a term that historically was intended to describe the parties of the wealthy, while we are a party of the people of Israel, of the common Jew. "In the beginning God created the individual," he would quote Ze'ev Jabotinsky. Individual freedom and human liberty were sacred to him. I am convinced that he would thank Viktor Orbán and Jair Bolsonaro for their support for Israel, but he would in no way see himself as their ideological partner.

    Rivers of ink have been spilled about the imbalance between the ”Jewish” and &#8221democratic” nature of the State of Israel. It is time to also discuss the relationship between the national and liberal in the ruling camp. This is not a mere imbalance, but a complete erasure of the liberal component, along with the radicalization of the national component.

    A few days ago, a reporter for the Haredi weekly “Besheva” slammed me because I - the former chairman of the Yesha Council - put “small politics before big ideology”. This is not true. I once thought that a shared belief in the idea of the integrity of the land was enough to eliminate other differences of opinion, and it allows Bezalel Smotrich and me to belong to the same camp. Not anymore. Perhaps this is precisely Benjamin Netanyahu’s success in warding off the danger of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. He deserves credit for that. But to create the Israel that I want to see at the current point in time, with the current priorities, extreme conservatism is an obstacle, not a partner.

    Netanyahu’s dream government, a full-on right-winger, will be bad for Israel not only because of the identity of the person who is going to lead it, a man of great talent, whose harm today outweighs his benefit. It must also not be established because of the ideological line that will guide it. Israel today needs a liberal government that will introduce civil marriages, including between men and women of the same gender. A government that respects the liberal streams of Judaism and allows equal prayer at the Western Wall, will reach out to our brothers across the sea and understand that evangelicals are no substitute for Diaspora Jews.

    32 years ago, my wife and I left our comfortable lives in Tel Aviv and settled in Samaria for ideological reasons. For this reason, Samaria will be our home forever, without a vow. I led the Yeshiva Council for six years, during which the Jewish population in the region grew by tens of percent, and I am proud of that. A visit to the Cave of the Patriarchs moves me to tears. Under different political circumstances, my priorities would have been different. Perhaps they will be again. Today, the ability of any couple to officially marry in Israel is more important to me than the evacuation of Khan al-Ahmar. That is who I am: Jewish, Zionist, nationalist, liberal.

    1. In short:

      49 MKs of the left and the Arabs, from their parties Yair Lapid, Merav Michaeli, Tamar Zandberg, Benny Gantz, the Joint and Ra'am, together with 13 representatives of Yamina and Sa'ar – will preserve the ‘integrity of the homeland’, the settlement in Israel and the Jewish character of the State of Israel 🙂

      With greetings, Zissel Leibisch Salzmann-Korinaldi

    2. Danny Dayan is confused and thinks that Mal is also a liberal like him. But really, the core of the left and even Yar Lapid and Gantz are actually not liberals, but alt-progressives (see the entry on the conversion treatment law, and this is just the opening shot. In the US, the tax on capital gains has already risen to 40%!. It is true that this is only for high-income earners, but this is the first swallow on the way to a tyrannical regime the likes of which the world has never known). Progressivism is anti-religious and anti-conservative and not liberal at all. It is a much greater threat to liberalism than conservatism (certainly the one in our country). Danny Dayan has much more in common with the mustards than with Meretz and Labor (who are even anti-national) in this regard. The son is stuck in the past and does not understand the world in which he lives. Rabbi Michi will cry a lot when these lunatics take over the reins of power (and he will have nowhere to run because they are taking over all Western countries)

      You can see a long and detailed article on the relationship between liberalism and progressivism here:

      https://iyun.org.il/article/perils-of-liberalism/classic-liberalism-and-progressivism/

      1. More revised response:

        Danny Dayan is confused and thinks that the left is also liberal like him. But in reality, the core of the left and even Yair Lapid and Gantz are no longer liberals but on the way to becoming progressives (see the entry on the conversion therapy law. And this is just the opening shot. In the US, the tax on capital gains has already risen to 40%!. It is true that this is only for high-income earners, but this is the first swallow on the way to a tyrannical regime the likes of which the world has never known). Progressivism is anti-religious and anti-conservative and not liberal at all. It is a much greater threat to liberalism than conservatism (certainly the one in our country). Danny Dayan has much more in common with the mustard-seed party than with Meretz and Labor (who are even anti-national) in this regard. The man is stuck in the past and does not understand the world in which he lives. Rabbi Miki will cry a lot if these madmen take over the reins of power (and he will also have nowhere to run because they are taking over all Western countries)

        You can see a long and detailed article on the relationship between liberalism and progressivism here :

        https://iyun.org.il/article/perils-of-liberalism/classic-liberalism-and-progressivism/

      2. Sorry, I meant this article (on the relationship between liberalism and progressivism):

        https://www.zavitaheret.com/%D7%A2%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%93-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%94-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%99%D7%95%D7%9D-%D7%94%D7%92%D7%93%D7%95%D7%9C-%D7%91%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A8-%D7%A2

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