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“Included in Two Hundred Is a Maneh” (Column 318)

With God’s help

Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.

In this column I wish to touch on a special type of kal va-chomer (a fortiori argument), which the rule-writers call “bekhlal matayim maneh”—“included in two hundred is a maneh.” At first glance this looks like a purely logical argument and, in that sense, is unusual compared to the other hermeneutical rules (including the other types of kal va-chomer). We will see again that applying logic to real-world domains must be done with great care (I noted this as well in Column 50). I have already mentioned in the past that logical formalization is alluring (to me as well), but it is a dangerous process. Formalization presents a philosophical argument as if it were absolute mathematics—i.e., incapable of error. People fail to notice that the very act of formalization itself involves several assumptions that require scrutiny, and those assumptions may well be mistaken or at least unnecessary. We shall see that this is also the case with this kind of kal va-chomer.

The “Included in Two Hundred Is a Maneh” Kal Va-Chomer

Among the hermeneutical rules, the kal va-chomer is considered the most “logical.” Not for nothing do the Sages refer to it as “din” (“and is it not a din?,” or “we do not punish/warn from a din,” and the like).[1] There are several types of kal va-chomer, and what they all share is learning the stricter from the lenient (or the lenient from the stricter, in “chomer ve-kal”). The type I wish to focus on here is what the rule-writers call the “kal va-chomer of ‘included in two hundred is a maneh’,” meaning that the severity relation between the lenient and the strict is one of inclusion.

A standard biblical kal va-chomer appears, for example, in Exodus 6:12:

And Moses spoke before the Lord, saying: “Behold, the children of Israel have not listened to me; how then shall Pharaoh listen to me, and I am of uncircumcised lips?”

The chance that Pharaoh will heed Moses is lower than the chance that the children of Israel will heed him. Therefore, if the children of Israel did not listen, then all the more so Pharaoh will not listen. There is a severity relation between the children of Israel and Pharaoh that is expressed in their respective probabilities of complying with Moses. This is a regular kal va-chomer based on an ordinary severity relation.

But in Exodus 21:33–34, the Torah commands regarding damages caused by a pit:

And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit and not cover it, and an ox or a donkey fall therein: the owner of the pit shall pay; he shall make restitution to the owner, and the dead animal shall be his.

A person who created a pit in the ground must pay for damages caused to an ox or a donkey that fall into it. Digging a pit is creating a pit in the ground. What is opening a pit? Simply, removing a cover from an existing pit. This raises the question: why does the Torah bother to mention both actions? If one is liable for opening, then certainly one should be liable for digging. Note that here the severity relation is special and not similar to the relation in the previous example. When you dig a pit, the act of digging removes soil from the entire depth of the pit, and in particular from its upper part (the part at ground level). Removing the soil from the top is itself an act of opening. Therefore, in this case digging is not merely more severe than opening (as with Pharaoh and the children of Israel); rather, digging includes opening, and its “greater severity” derives from the fact that it contains opening plus something additional.

What is the difference between these two kal va-chomer types? For the first type one can raise refutations (pirchot). For example, perhaps Pharaoh will heed Moses because he is not under anyone’s authority and makes decisions himself, whereas the children of Israel are afraid to heed Moses because they fear Pharaoh’s heavy hand. This refutation attacks the severity relation—namely, the assumption that Pharaoh’s probability of compliance is lower than that of the children of Israel. Now consider whether a similar refutation could be raised against the second kal va-chomer (of the “included in two hundred is a maneh” type). On the face of it, it seems not. Digging is necessarily stricter than opening, for it inherently includes opening. The punishment for digging is not imposed because it is “more severe” than opening, but because there is, within it, an act of opening. I punish the digger for the “opening component” of his act. Therefore there can be no refutation that shows that digging contains something “lighter” than opening. Everything that is said about an act of opening must also be said about an act of digging.

Indeed, in the Mekhilta on this verse we find the following exposition:

If for opening he is liable, then for digging all the more so? Rather, from here [we learn] that we do not punish from a din (i.e., from a kal va-chomer).

Reference to digging is superfluous, and its mention comes to teach that we do not punish (impose liability) via din (kal va-chomer). In other words, had the Torah written only “opening” and not “digging,” we would not have obligated the digger to compensate the victim of the pit.

However, in several places in the Rishonim (Tosafot, Bava Kamma 2a, 50a, and elsewhere) we find that regarding monetary liabilities, such as torts, we do punish via din. At first glance, the Mekhilta here contradicts that view. Indeed, in several sugyot (see Bava Kamma 50a and 3a) this verse is expounded differently. Some Acharonim claimed that the Bavli disagrees with the Mekhilta about whether one punishes monetarily via din or not.

Yet some of the rule-writers argue that no proof can be brought from here about punishing monetarily from din. In a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer from opening to digging, it would have sufficed for the Torah to write only “opening,” and we would learn by kal va-chomer to obligate the digger as well—that is, here we would punish monetarily from din. The common explanation is that a kal va-chomer of this type cannot be refuted; therefore we punish via din in such a case. The assumption is that where we do not punish from din, it is because a refutation might exist. Hence, for a kal va-chomer that admits no refutation, there is no impediment to punishing via din. So writes, for example, the author of Ginat Veradim, General I, and others.

However, the Maharsha (Sanhedrin 64b) explains the rule “we do not punish from din” differently. According to him, it may be that the punishment given for the lenient case is insufficient for the stricter case, and therefore one cannot derive the punishment for the stricter from the lenient. Yet it emerges that even according to his view, for a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer we do punish from din. Thus he explains in the Mahadura Basra, Bava Kamma 49b:

He argues that because in a kal va-chomer of this sort digging includes opening, here it would indeed have been possible to write only “opening,” and we would learn by kal va-chomer to obligate the digger as well. In other words, even according to him, in such a kal va-chomer we do punish from din. This can also be seen as follows: you punish the digger for the fact that he opened (the ground for liability is opening, not digging; since digging includes opening), and for that there is no need for a kal va-chomer at all. The Torah punishes the opener, and a digger is also an opener.

Halakhic Examples: The Pit in Torts, Conspiring Witnesses, and One Who Passes His Children to Molech

Nonetheless, at least the Mekhilta maintains that even in such a case we do not punish from din. That is, if the Torah had written only “opening” and not “digging,” we would not punish one who digs. This seems puzzling, for we have seen that apparently, according to all views, we should have punished in such a case.

One could say that the Mekhilta does not disagree that for digging we would punish from din, and that the lesson here—“that we do not punish from din”—is taught only by way of “if it is not needed for this matter” (im eino inyan). In this specific case, where the kal va-chomer is of the “bekhlal matayim maneh” type, we would indeed punish the digger even if only “opening” were written; and precisely for that reason the Torah’s reference to digging is superfluous. What does it come to teach? The Mekhilta claims that this superfluity teaches that we do not punish from din in cases where the kal va-chomer is ordinary (the severity relation is ordinary and not of the “included in two hundred is a maneh” type).

But even if in the Mekhilta one could avoid that conclusion, we nevertheless find views among poskim and commentators that we do not punish even in a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer. We will bring two examples: conspiring witnesses and passing one’s children to Molech.

As is known, conspiring witnesses are punished with the penalty they plotted to impose on the defendant. There we find a surprising rule (Rambam, Hilchot Sanhedrin 20:2):

If the one about whom they testified was executed and only afterwards they were proven [to be conspirers], they are not executed by law, as it is said, “as he plotted to do,” and he had not yet done; and this is by received tradition. But if the one about whom they testified was flogged, they are flogged; and likewise if money passed from one to another by their testimony, it returns to its owner and they pay him. /Gloss of the Ra’avad/ “If the one about whom they testified was executed…” I say this is an error.

This penalty is imposed only if they were proven to be conspirers before the defendant was executed. But if they were proven after he had already been executed, they are exempt. The Rambam holds that for monetary penalties and lashes there is no such distinction, and the Ra’avad disagrees with him.

The Kesef Mishneh there addresses why we do not punish them even when he has already been executed by a kal va-chomer, and what the difference is between death and lashes:

It is possible to give a reason for our master’s words, that we say “as he plotted” and not “as he did,” only where he was executed on their testimony; for since their sin is too great to bear, it is not fitting to give them a court-imposed death penalty that would atone for them; rather, it is fitting to leave them to be judged after death with dreadful punishments. A similar case is one who gives all his seed to Molech, who is exempt—something we do not say regarding lashes imposed by their testimony.

He explains that if they already caused a death, their sin must be extremely great, and it is not proper to punish them with the same penalty that those who merely plotted would receive. He brings an example from one who passes his children to Molech. The Rambam rules in Hilchot Avodah Zarah 6:4:

One is not liable to karet or stoning until he hands over his son to Molech and passes him between his legs through the fire in the usual manner of passing; if he handed over but did not pass, or passed but did not hand over, or handed over and passed not in the usual manner—he is exempt. And he is not liable until he gives over part of his seed and leaves part, as it is said, “for of his seed he has given to Molech” (mi-zar’o)—some of it, but not all of it.

He rules that one is liable only if he passed to Molech part of his seed and not all his seed. True, this is derived from the wording “of his seed,” which the Sages expounded as “and not all his seed,” but one might have said that it is prohibited specifically this way because this was also the practice of the idol worshippers on account of which the matter was prohibited (see the Rambam’s description there in halacha 3). This ruling, of course, again raises the difficulty: how can one who passed all his children to Molech be exempt? After all, in particular, he did pass part of his children. This is a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer, and one should punish one who passed all his children by virtue of the fact that, in particular, he passed part of his children.

In the Hagahot Maimoniyot there, on Hilchot Avodah Zarah, he cites the explanation of the Sefer Mitzvot Gadol (SeMaG):

The SeMaG’s wording on this matter: and there is a reason here that answers the heretics: because those executed by a court are atoned for, and this man committed such a great transgression that the Holy One, blessed be He, does not want him to have atonement, etc.

The fact that the punishment for the lenient case is not sufficient for the stricter case is offered as an explanation of why we do not punish from din even when the kal va-chomer is of the “bekhlal matayim maneh” type. This can also be the explanation in the above Mekhilta regarding one who digs a pit. This is precisely the explanation proposed by the Kesef Mishneh here.

The Kesef Mishneh there gives another reason for not punishing the witnesses after the defendant’s execution:

And one can offer another reason: since “God stands in the congregation of God,” had this person not been liable to death, the Holy One, blessed be He, would not have allowed a Jewish soul to be lost; and since the Holy One, blessed be He, allowed the court to agree to execute this person, and he was executed, he must have been liable to death; therefore the witnesses are not subject to the death penalty—unlike lashes.

A Note on Gezerat Ha-Katuv (Scriptural Decree)

R. Yosef Engel, in his book Lekach Tov, General 2, brings three rationales for the rule “we do not punish from din” (his words are also brought in the Talmudic Encyclopedia, entry “We do not punish from din”): concern that there may be a refutation (pircha) to the kal va-chomer; perhaps the punishment for the lenient case does not suffice for the stricter case; and a scriptural decree learned from “and his sister, the daughter of his father and the daughter of his mother.” The first two we have seen here. Regarding the third “rationale,” it is not a rationale but a source. For some reason there is a feeling in yeshivot that when there is a biblical source, one no longer needs a reason (as if it were an alternative to a reason). In my article on gezerat ha-katuv I pointed out the error in this approach. Therefore, the truth is that there are not three explanations here; rather, the rule is learned from that verse and two explanations are offered for it. In another article dealing with halakhic punishment, I argued that there is a more natural and compelling explanation for this rule (an extension of the second explanation): namely, that the severity of punishment is not determined at all by the severity of the offense, and therefore there is no place to infer it by a kal va-chomer in the first place.

Can There Be a Refutation of a “Bekhlal Matayim Maneh” Kal Va-Chomer?

We have seen above that there are halakhic opinions according to which, in a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer, we punish from din. We discussed whether this is because a refutation is impossible, or whether it stems from the concern that the punishment for the lenient case may be insufficient for the stricter case. But now we must note that this very concern is itself a refutation of a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer. In any event, it is clear that such a kal va-chomer can be refuted.

Take the example of digging and opening a pit. Suppose the Torah had written only “opening” and not “digging,” and we would learn by kal va-chomer that digging a pit is prohibited (assuming that creating a dangerous obstacle is prohibited). We saw that even if there is no refutation to such a kal va-chomer, the digger’s obligation to pay could not be learned from there, because perhaps the monetary liability for opening is insufficient to punish the digger.[2] That is, despite the kal va-chomer, one cannot derive the punishment for the stricter case. At least de facto, this itself is a refutation of the kal va-chomer: even though digging is more severe, one cannot infer from opening, by a kal va-chomer, that there is a punishment for digging.

More examples can be adduced. In Column 50 I dealt with this and connected it to the question of the relationship between logic and reality. I cited the Vandervelde Law that once existed in Belgium, which forbade selling two liters of wine at one time. A man who wanted to buy ten liters was refused and appealed to the court. The judge ruled in his favor: although the law forbids selling two liters, one may sell ten liters. This is a classic example of “bekhlal matayim maneh,” and yet the judge argued that the kal va-chomer is refuted. The explanation was that the purpose of the prohibition was to prevent a worker from spending his weekly wages on wine in a pub (so he would bring them home for sustenance). But if a person wishes to invest his money in wine, the law should not prohibit it. There you have a refutation of a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer.

A “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer is a valid logical inference. In several places (for example here) I pointed out that the validity of a logical inference derives precisely from the fact that its premises include its conclusion (it presupposes what is sought). That is exactly the situation in a kal va-chomer of this type. And yet: although the conclusion follows necessarily from the premises, when we come to apply it to reality, it may be incorrect. In Column 50 I explained that applying a logical inference to life always presupposes additional assumptions, and these can certainly be exposed to various refutations. I explained there that this parallels the problems in formalization that I mentioned at the beginning of the column, above. The assumption that this logical argument is a model of something in reality is the problematic point—not the argument itself. This is precisely the error of the rule-writers (like the above-mentioned Ginat Veradim) who think that a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer cannot be refuted. They ignore the fact that even a valid logical argument, when applied to reality, relies on additional hidden assumptions, and with respect to those, a refutation is indeed possible.

A Contemporary Example: The Poznanski Ruling

A few months ago it was brought to my attention that these remarks of mine about a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer were cited in a ruling of the Supreme Court. This case is particularly interesting, because on the face of it the kal va-chomer seems very persuasive. It concerns the case of Judge Poznanski-Katz, who exchanged messages with an attorney from the Securities Authority who was handling a matter before her. The judge and the state reached an arrangement of a one-year suspension, but the Disciplinary Tribunal for Judges rejected that and decided to remove her from office permanently. She petitioned the High Court of Justice, which accepted the tribunal’s view that a one-year suspension was not within the tribunal’s authority, yet nevertheless decided to reprimand her and return her to the bench after a year (the justices’ reasoning there was very odd).

Our concern here, however, is with the first petition, which was submitted to the Disciplinary Tribunal for Judges. The Minister of Justice petitioned against the judge, and there the question arose whether the tribunal has the authority to suspend her for a fixed period. In the tribunal’s decision (p. 33), the following argument was discussed: there is no dispute that the tribunal can remove a judge from office permanently; therefore, all the more so, it has the authority to suspend a judge for a fixed period. This is a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer. What do you think? Seemingly, this is a knockout argument. The panel comprised Justices Asher Grunis and Neil Hendel, and Judge A. Helman.

The tribunal rejected this claim, and Justice Hendel wrote, among other reasons, the following:

The principal argument on which the parties based their position, presented in the form of the rule “included in two hundred is a maneh”—i.e., the whole contains its part—is based on the possibility of removing a judge from office permanently. In their view, this possibility also includes the possibility of removing a judge from office for a set period—suspension. The flaw at the heart of this position is the assumption that these are two identical sanctions in essence, differing only quantitatively—in the length of the removal from office. The “included in two hundred is a maneh” rule refers to coins from the Talmudic period, in which one maneh was equal to one hundred zuz. The discussions relevant in the Babylonian Talmud and in the Rambam concern a claim to collect a debt, where one witness testifies to a loan of a “maneh”—i.e., one hundred zuz—while the other witness testifies to a loan of “two hundred,” i.e., two hundred zuz. In that case, it was determined that the borrower must pay the lender one hundred zuz, since both witnesses testify to a loan of one hundred zuz: included in two hundred zuz are also one hundred zuz (see Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 31a; Mishneh Torah, Testimony, ch. 3, hal. 3). This is a rule of evidence, not a punitive rule, and in any case it cannot teach what counsel for the parties tried to learn from it (see also Michael Avraham and Gavriel Hazut, “Midah Tovah—Emor” (2009), at: https://www.biu.ac.il/toramada/parasha/230_emor).

An ancillary claim by counsel aims to transfer the evidentiary principle into the punitive field. According to this line, the more severe sanction includes within it the lighter sanction. But, as we shall see, this is not the case when dealing with two different sanctions. The parties’ claim rests on section 35 of the Penal Law, 1977, titled “Punishments are maximum punishments.” This section provides that “a court that has convicted a person of an offense may impose on him any punishment that does not exceed the punishment prescribed by law for that offense.” But the proof is not analogous to the case before us.

As is known, the Penal Law sets a maximum punishment for each offense. For example, section 384 of the law states: “Whoever steals—his punishment is three years’ imprisonment.” Note that it does not say that theft is forbidden, but that the punishment is three years’ imprisonment. According to the plain reading, one might have thought this is a mandatory punishment; section 35 comes to teach us that it is a maximum punishment. A three-year sentence is a ceiling, but a different punishment, such as one year of imprisonment, may also be imposed. By contrast, removal from office does not mean removal for a certain period up to a maximum. Therefore, had the legislature wished to allow suspension, it would have had to say so explicitly, as it did, for example, in section 68 of the Bar Association Law, 1961: “These are the sanctions that a disciplinary court is empowered to impose… (4) suspension for a set period not exceeding ten years; (5) expulsion from the association.” Thus, the sanction of permanent removal from office and the sanction of suspension are different sanctions. Suspension raises unique difficulties that do not arise with removal from office. Similarly, the punishment of imprisonment in the Penal Law does not grant the court authority to impose a “less severe” punishment than imprisonment, such as suspension from one’s professional activity for a set period or public shaming. Additional sanctions that may be imposed—such as a fine, a suspended sentence, or compensation—are explicitly written in the Penal Law (see sections 37, 52, and 77 of the Penal Law). To this we add, of course, the possibility of a quasi-interim measure during proceedings—detention until the end of proceedings after an indictment—codified in section 21 of the Criminal Procedure (Enforcement Powers—Detentions) Law, 1996 (see also HCJ 5185/13 Ploni v. The Great Rabbinical Court in Jerusalem (28.2.2017), para. 37 of the opinion of the Deputy President E. Rubinstein; para. 6 of the opinion of Justice A. Shoham; para. 5 of the opinion of Justice Y. Danziger; para. 7 of the opinion of Justice A. Hayut; para. 12 of the opinion of President M. Naor; paras. 9–11 of my opinion. By contrast, see the view of Justice Y. Amit, para. 6 of his opinion).

In my opinion, the argument that transfers the discussion from the law of evidence to penal law is beside the point. Justice Hendel himself writes that even in the realm of punishments one may infer authority to impose a lighter punishment from authority to impose a more severe punishment, so long as it is the same kind of sanction and the difference between them is only quantitative (for in such a case it indeed involves a “bekhlal matayim maneh” relation). But here we are comparing suspension—which is inherently a punishment—to removal from office—which is inherently not a punishment.

It seems to me that a more precise and persuasive formulation of this argument is as follows: suspension is a punishment, and different durations of suspension are indeed related in the manner of “two hundred to one maneh.” But removal from office is not a punishment; it is a declaration that the judge is not fit to serve. It is a determination of unfitness, not a sanction. Suspension clearly is not that, since suspension is for a fixed time, after which the judge returns to office. Thus suspension presumes that the judge is fit, but deserves punishment; not so removal from office. If the legislature granted the tribunal authority to declare that a judge is unfit to serve, this does not necessarily mean that it also granted authority to punish him—even if, from the subject’s perspective, it appears to be a milder “sanction.” This is, again, a refutation of a “bekhlal matayim manehkal va-chomer.

[1] Indeed, in the Rambam’s introduction to the Sefer Ha-Mitzvot he refers to all the hermeneutical rules as “din,” and applies these principles to all of them. The Ramban, in the second shoresh, already disputes him on this point.

[2] My assumption here is that tort liability is a punishment. This emerges from several places, in particular from the discussions about monetary punishment from din (and also regarding the rule of kim lei be-derabba minei as it relates to monetary penalties). I will not go into that here.

21 תגובות

  1. 1. The explanation of the SMG and the KSM that the punishment is not enough – why not give the partial punishment here, and in heaven they will complete it (“in all the heavens and the earth”).
    2. On the matter of the suspension and removal, it seems that there is no point in reading. Finally, why not. ”If the legislature gave the court the authority to determine that a judge is unfit to serve in his position, it does not necessarily mean that they also have the authority to punish him”. Why not?
    3. Perhaps another example of a refutation of the general two hundred is the leaking of internal information by the company. The leak to one person – a punishment. The leak to the whole world – its right. I heard that someone who digitally creates all the stories of a certain length does not receive copyright protection.
    (4. Maybe it's better to say 'heavy and light' (or 'heavy and light') instead of 'heavy and light'?)

    1. 1. Because these are different types and not a quantitative difference. See my article that I referred to.
      2. I explained. This is a question of the institution in question. There is an institution that is supposed to determine whether the judge is worthy of serving as a judge or not. But it is not authorized to punish a judge who has committed a crime. These are different roles.
      3. I didn't understand.
      4. It is of the same weight as, let alone, a minor.

      1. Leaking to a certain person gives him an advantage in the capital market because he has information that is not known to others. Leaking to everyone maintains equality. Information that does not provide an advantage because it is known to everyone is no longer valuable.

        1. Nice. Although it could perhaps be phrased in a non-problematic way: It is forbidden to give an advantage to one person over others. In this formulation, there is no situation of two hundred doses at all. The prohibition is not in the leak but in the giving of the advantage.

          1. That's why I also added the example of the creator of all works who has no copyright. Because creation is to pay attention to the uniqueness of this particular sequence, and not just to be the first to create the sequence. But why does this parable say that 'there is no such thing as two hundred servings at all' more than any other parable, Vandervelde's, for example. There too, it can be formulated that the prohibition is not in selling 2 liters but in making it easier for a worker to spend his salary and there is no such thing as two hundred servings at all.

            1. Ah”n. With regard to regulations and decrees, the latter investigated whether what is prohibited is the act (the ta’am is an explanation for the prohibition) or whether the reason is prohibited (and the act is only the essence). I remember a long article by the Gerz”n in the book Mechshei Torah in memory of the Gerz”z.

              1. (I did not find the aforementioned book in the treasury, and wisdom is nowhere to be found.)

                It seems that even if the reason is denied, the semantic debate is still not settled whether, more or less, with a Pirka from the explanation, he is like a man of Dalit or whether he and his Pirka are forever connected (that is how I understand the debate, is it?).
                Perhaps the desired purpose is to distinguish between a side Pirka in which he and his Pirka are always in the sky (for example, if a citizen does not have immunity from the Knesset at all, two hundred men, then he will not have immunity. What is the point of a Pirka, lest they harass him for his execution and judgment. These and other things are living things and Halakha as Pirka) and a main Pirka that reveals that there is nothing here (for example, the example of wine or the information-in-face).

                By the way, although this doesn't really overlap, in the answer here (link below) it was explained that the more or less severe in the Gemara (which there is no answer to) goes according to the ‘levels of severity’ and not according to the reason (specific to the law).
                https://mikyab.net/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%9B%D7%92

    2. Thanks,
      (4. Regarding ‘material and light’, I didn't think about it before the column, but it seems that the literal interpretation of light ‘and material’ is a light subject that has a material law (therefore, the serious subject will also have a material law). And so the name for the study of light law is ‘serious and silent’).

      David, this was an example from the present of ’in total two hundred mena’ that has a clear explanation (which you wrote).

  2. I've been looking for a long time for an example of a first-class son of a second-class son. It's not easy.

    1. The end has come The end of your search, summer is coming to you.
      A’ If there is leisure to write a very thoughtful response, then it is much easier to write a second type of response, and if there is leisure to write a somewhat thoughtful response.
      B’ And in our way we learned that he does not care that his messages will be seen as sloppy (therefore there is no K”U).
      J’ If there is leisure to write a somewhat thoughtful response, then it is much easier to write a first type of response, and if there is leisure to write a boring response (and D”K, which are two axes, etc.).
      After all, J’ is certainly of the first type, the son of B’ who is a general measure, the son of A’ and it is much easier to write a second type. It turned out very simple.

    2. Schweik, I didn't understand. What's the problem with finding one? Take, for example, the law of a pit from an ox (an ox that has no beginning to cause damage is liable for a pit, since the beginning of its doing so is not a law that it will be liable). Then learn the law of opening a pit to digging a pit.

  3. Good luck to dear Rabbi Mikhi 🙂
    Your words are sacred (as usual in the Holy Scriptures).
    I want a light explanation of something that is not clear to me..
    Two points:
    A) I understood that you interpreted the Mekhilta in the painting that it also claims that ’in general two hundred mena’ are binding.
    And apparently the Mekhilta of the Torah only added to give a milta explanation to the painting that is not at all two hundred mena (regular קאן)..
    And it is difficult, if so it is not clear why in the case of a total of two hundred mena the Torah was precise and added.. Apparently it would be more logical that it should have added in the classic case of קאן. (Every case of a total of two hundred mena in the Bible was a milta explanation for the other cases) whereas even with such a painting we would understand that the Torah did not speak at all two hundred mena. (Since this is not the usual K”U, if you want analytical deduction) and therefore it is difficult for me to interpret the Mekshila like this. (Since it was specifically specified from a drawing of a total of two hundred mena. This is why I understand that the Mekshila spoke well specifically in the case of K”U, which is ‘totally two hundred mena’, and even more so in the usual).

    So we are left with a problem with the Mekshila. (This is how they specified from the verse. And rightly so. But they apparently did not think [we need to understand why] about the innovation of the Babilli ‘to bring miner after miner..’. And here is the new Chidushah they innovated [to the method that I understand, that they shared about the Babilli] right in this place).

    b) And another point about the K&#8221M in the commentary on DÙ Maimonides (according to the first interpretation. In the book: ‘and it is possible..’). It seems that any punishment, whatever it may be, is an atonement (and not just death) and has a certain metaphysical value (in death it is macro. But in whipping it is also micro). If so, I would be happy for more explanation.. Why is it not said in whipping as in death? (7) Who said that whipping will atone for the whipping that the instigator received? In money, I understand, because it exists in the world [and some would say that it is not just a mere punishment, but also ‘darra dammuna’] and it is required [one must investigate whether the return of the money will atone for the instigator, but this is not the place..).

    I really liked the explanation at the end of paragraph 4 of the total of two hundred mena.

    I would be happy to have explanations on my two points, and I will continue to ask the rabbi to expand on the study of Torah and to his students 🙂
    You did a great job.

    1. You can ask the first question about any “if it is not a matter”. After all, there is such a measure in the Torah. Probably for drafting reasons (where does such a wording fit in and where does it not. By the way, there are other places from which this rule is learned (like “and his sister” which is also a rule of two hundred mena).
      Your second question is in the sense that it should be made difficult. Sages study a rule of two hundred mena, and the fact that it was possible not to study is not a problem. The question is how do you interpret a rule of two hundred mena, because it doesn't make sense.

      Every now and then I write a somewhat scholarly column, but it doesn't seem to have an overly broad demand for it. But that's okay, I don't work based on ratings considerations.

      1. A) Thank you very much, the point of the ’if it is not a matter’ you explained it well.
        B) Again, if the Pirka for ’in general two hundred mena’ is (all of course according to the method of those who believe that there is no punishment from the law even in the Gavana) that it is not known whether death will atone for the conspirator. (Because *maybe* it is an insufficient punishment).
        The same thing can be asked about flogging. (Unless you state that it is possible that the rabbis are mistaken in distinguishing that the conspirator is liable to flogging. And flogging him is sufficient, and not necessarily that he will atone [also morally truly deserve] for what cannot be done with death.)
        And perhaps for the rabbinate if I understood correctly (legitimately not) this is the root of the dispute between the Rabbis and the Maimonides. (I'm probably just attached to the Rabbi's opinion on this point. [That there should be no distinction between death and flogging {for the era of money}, if for the sake of doubt, we'll eliminate them]).

        Everything that comes out of your pen is fantastic. From philosophy to horror. Thank you very much for everything, really (including your books).
        However, it's important for you to know that there are students who also want scholarly columns in addition 😉

        1. The main point of my words was not to explain the difference between death and flogging, but rather the very explanation that they are not punishments from the law. The difference between death and flogging according to the Rambam is apparently that flogging is not a specific atonement but a general one, and therefore they belong to every offense (and at most they will need to be perfected). And evidence of this is that in every punishment there is a verse of punishment beyond a warning (there are no punishments that are even warnings), but with flogging there is no need for this. Everything that is not required requires flogging.
          Thank you.

  4. None of the explanations explain why there are no warnings from the law, and indeed both go together.
    It seems more simple to say that Rashi says that there are no punishments from the law because a person judges the Law of God by himself, and this is perhaps somewhat related to the words of the Maimonides that the qualities that the Torah requires have the status of rabbis, that is, this is our study of the Torah and not the “original” Torah (the Torah of children in the language of the Sages).
    And although the Torah was given to the sages to teach and study it, they are not allowed to invent new laws and punishments according to reasoning that they judge by themselves. (Unlike reasoning that interprets the law of the Torah, the Law invents new law, and the sages are not given the authority to innovate this).

  5. A. "The reference to mining is unnecessary, and its writing is intended to teach that there are no penalties from the law (stick and matter). In other words, if they had not written mining but only opening, we would not be obliged to compensate the miner who was damaged by the pit." You should have written "…*Yes* we would be obliged to obligate the miner," right?

    B. The Maharsha's method that there are no penalties from the law because perhaps it was not enough:
    a. But at least he will be punished even with a punishment that is not enough, it is better than nothing! You caught a little, you caught it. It's like I don't give €5 to a poor person just because I would like to give him €10 but I don't have it. But give him 5 is better than 0!
    b. Why doesn't this consideration also stand in the context of the general rule of a suitable amount? He explains that the Torah should not have written miner because I would still punish him as a totach. But maybe the punishment for the totach is not enough for the miner?! Even if the totach is included in the first place, maybe the punishment for him is not enough for the one who is hired!

    C. "We saw above that there are methods in halakha that are strictly speaking 'two hundred mena' punishments from the law. Either because there is a pirka or because it is not enough". You should have written "...no punishments", right?

    D. "If so, at least de facto this is itself a pirka on the contrary: even though mining is more serious, it is impossible to learn a little bit from the opening that there is a penalty for mining". I didn't understand. What does this have to do with pirka? This is not a pirka, the qu' is strictly valid, but there is still a side problem because of which the punishment is not learned, but the offense is learned from the qu' and why is there no pirka?!

    E. "This is exactly the mistake of the owners of the rules (like the aforementioned Rose Garden) who think that it is impossible to elaborate, let alone 'in total two hundred servings'. They ignore the fact that even a valid logical argument, when applied to reality, assumes additional hidden assumptions, and for which there can be a refutation."
    When applying the rule to digging a hole (i.e., that the digger caused damage because even the one who opened it is considered to have caused damage), what hidden assumptions about reality that can be refuted are there???

    I feel like I'm missing a small point that is why I have the above difficulties.

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