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The equivalent of Aristotelian logic to Kabbalistic terms of pairing and fertilization

ResponseThe equivalent of Aristotelian logic to Kabbalistic terms of pairing and fertilization
gil asked 3 years ago

Hello Rabbi! How are you? In your books, as I recall, you dealt with the relationship between wisdom and understanding (human being as hay, etc.). And this time I wanted to clarify what the meaning of conception and birth is in Kabbalah, according to the Ramchal's interpretation (I will quote the passage after the question). I see that he is trying to address the ways in which wisdom connects to understanding (on the cognitive level) as the relationship of the first premise to the second premise in the Aristotelian deductive argument (I hope I am right, that is how it seems to me). My question is twofold: A. Is there something in the deductive argument that requires that the first premise (or even one of them) be general and the second particular? (Matter and form in the Ramchal's language or wisdom - general versus understanding - particular)? In other words, I can understand that it is said that the claim "all Greeks are mortal" is general, and "Socrates is a Greek" - is a detail (although this is not a detail that specifies the general but only reduces it). Will the argument only work in this way? I am asking a simple question in logic, to understand whether it is indeed necessary that wisdom (the general – all mortal Greeks) precede and 'mating' with understanding (the particular – "Socrates is mortal") in order for the argument to be valid? What will happen if we precede the particular to the general? And what will happen if there are two generals, will the argument lose some of its force? I am simply trying to understand what the Ramchal means. The second question is what is the meaning of matter and form in these words of the Ramchal? (Rabbi Spiner wrote, Da'at HaHadash, p. Shatzah: "It should be noted that the terms matter and form come here in a different understanding than most of the ancients who spoke of it and explained it as, for example, body and soul, material and spiritual, and here the Ramchal explains: general and particular. I do not recall in the writings of the Ramchal that he speaks further about this matter of matter and form" (cf.
Here is the passage in question (the beginning of the passage in parentheses is only necessary for understanding the context, and for the way in which Ramchal introduces the reader to a cognitive, rather than physical, way of understanding the Sefirot. Each of the terms mochin, evur, etc. receives a logical explanation: 
(First Rules, Rule 22) The matter of the pairing of conception and birth mentioned in the Sefirot is that these are the kinds of illuminations that the Lord God created to be an illuminator for His creatures. They have order and law, and are arranged in a moral order, until they are all matters that are necessary for one another, and relate to one another, and join together in many ways. And they are all the matters required in the tree of faces. For here are the Dressing That the upper faces wear underwear is – Whose business is hidden within the matter of underwear And we will notice here the benefit that comes to the one who dresses in hiding, and to the dressers who admire that clothing for what it is:
 And the matter of the mind – the reason why the higher one becomes the mind in the lower one is that to complete the matter of that lower one, it will have to enter into something – the higher one from it. and the cerebellum are internal There will be As a more proximate cause, andSurrounding Dcelme in the exam A more distant reason🙂
Below is the excerpt! (with commentary by Rabbi Spiner):
 In our case, the coupling of conception and birth is that since all these matters proceed from each other, in the order of cause and effect, then all these necessary things can occur in them. For when one light (=birth) emerges, which is one measure, by virtue of the two lights that precede it, which are the assumptions that precede that measure, it will be necessary that at first an action be given in the grouping to the two assumptions (=conception), that they both act together (=conception) to produce their result. And when we go down to the details of the matter, it will appear that the matters and illuminations that we mentioned, which gradually emerge in the way of cause and effect, we will discern in them a material cause and a formal cause, or we will say a general cause and a private cause. And that is, for each measure or light, two lights will precede it that will produce it, one will give its generality and materiality (=conception), the other – its details in form, and the matter (=conception) will emerge from the general to the private cause. Then the result (=birth) will emerge from the connection that is made between the two. And this is the pairing that is in the connection of the two causes that we mentioned. And the departure of the matter from the general to the particular, and still in the particular cause, before its coming into effect (??? What is the equivalent of this in logic) - will be called conception, and its coming into effect - birth. Etc. etc. 
((NB. He wrote this in the corresponding passage in Da'at Tivonot:
 14) The intellect said – the great Rabbi Maimonides, may God have mercy on him, was awakened by the title “child” found in the Scriptures, copied to things in which birth is not special. And he said (Moreh Nevuchim, Shaar 1, Chapter 7), “Child – this word was borrowed for the invention of natural things – “Before the mountains bring forth” (Psalms 90:2), and it was further borrowed for innovations of thought, and whatever would require it from opinions and agreements, such as (Psalms 7:15), “And a false child,” from which it is said (Isaiah 2:6), “And with the children of the Gentiles they shall be satisfied,” etc. And this title was copied to thought, it and all that are similar to it; and we mean that just as the title of birth was borrowed from the renewed thing, so the thing that stands in the power to come into being is borrowed from pregnancy, and according to the words of the Scripture itself (Psalms 7:15), “She conceives in labor and gives birth in falsehood”; for to whom the one verb was copied, all its other details were also copied. And indeed we knew that every agreement of advice that is derived from a correct reason will have its progeny, which are the first premises. And indeed, the progeny of the progeny is in force before it is born from it, and in its birth – it goes from force to action:
 And no more, but since every thing that is completed has its perfection in addition to its existence, because it is possible for it to find something other than that perfection. Indeed, two things will come to the cause of that thing, namely its finding and its completion, because the existent cause is the complete and constant cause of existence, for the completion of the cause is not the completion of the cause but the perfection of the birth of the cause, so that when it gives birth to everything that is in its nature to give birth, that birth will be found complete in all its perfection. And all this is simple for those who are on the path of wisdom… and all these are simple matters for those who know the paths of the exemplary wisdoms:))
 

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1 Answer
Michi Staff answered 3 years ago

That seems to be what he meant.
But there is no such necessity. For example, if every frog is a right triangle, and every triangle is a cloud, then every frog is a cloud. There should be a relation of inclusion and not necessarily a private claim. There are also deductions that are not based on inclusion. If every cloud sails fast and everything that sails fast is beautiful, then a cloud is beautiful.
 

gil replied 3 years ago

Thank you very much! It's hard for me to understand why he was wrong to think otherwise, maybe because it was the fashion to start with the general and move on to the specific? Or was there some built-in error in the logic that was slowly discovered and improved upon. I don't know, but it's less interesting to me now. (By the way, Ramchal wrote the Sefer HaGyun and dealt with it extensively. It is also very noticeable in the Kalach, that many of the long twists there are based on attempts to establish logical arguments. At the time, I was tempted to examine the Ramchal's Kabbalah on the basis of his logical reasoning in the Sefer HaGyun. Those days have already passed – and in the Enad no one has yet done so, and in this sense you have understood the Ramchal quite superficially, at least in light of his emphasized desire to establish everything in the doctrine of logic. See, for example, the wonderful sentence that could be the motto of your website: "Sefer Da'at Tevonot - Kalach - Kend: "And all these are simple matters to those who know the ways of the exemplary wisdoms… said the soul – I have no doubt that it is impossible to achieve even the smallest bit that a person can achieve through the wisdom of his actions except through the ways of study and wisdom. And whoever wants to enter into these investigations without the necessary preparations and studies – is nothing but malice, and will not be able to succeed." I will comment As an aside, Rabbi Sackton of Yeshiva Hatfutsot, who edited Ramchal's Sefer Hagyun as well as Sefer Melitza and Derech Hochma (Logic in the Talmud), has been teaching Gemara for years based on Ramchal's analytical analysis of how to approach the issue. I have not heard the style and I cannot attest to where, but the experience is interesting.

mikyab Staff replied 3 years ago

The most common image of a syllogism is from the general to the particular (all X is Y. and a is also X, conclusion: a is Y). Therefore, it is customary to refer to deduction as an inference from the general to the particular. This is also accepted today.
In my experience, logical tests of everyday arguments yield almost nothing. You just get tangled up in the nitty-gritty. Only when there is something tricky can nitty-gritty help.

gil replied 3 years ago

Thank you! And why is deduction from the general to the particular more common? Because it is easier to understand, more absorbing? (And also
Ramchal speaks of a detail not in the sense of a part of a whole, but in the sense of a detail of the whole, being more than the sum of its parts.
Also, what is the meaning of fertilization? Is there a stage in which there is some process of decomposition of the first premise by crossing it with the second premise – and only then does he draw the conclusion (birth) or does it happen immediately? It seems from Ramchal quoted above in the first principles that there is a certain process until this happens (a process in the logical sense). I will note that the pairing of the first premise with the second is, as I believe, in reality the common denominator that connects them – and this is the element that is common to both (y). From the Ramchal's examination, this pairing is what is called in Kabbalah "pairing", see its language: "For when one light, which is one measure, emerges from the two lights that precede it, which are the assumptions that precede that measure, it will be necessary that at first an action be given *in the group* (i.e. pairing) to the two assumptions, that they both act together to produce their result. And when we get down to the details of the matter, it will appear that the matters and illuminations that we mentioned, which emerge gradually by way of cause and effect, we will distinguish between a material cause and a formal cause, or we will say a general cause and a private cause. In other words, for each measure or light, two lights will precede it to give rise to it, one will give its generality and substance, the other – its details in form (pairing), and the matter will proceed from the general to the private cause (ibur). Then the result will come out From the connection that is made between the two (birth). And this is the pairing that is in the connection of the two causes that we mentioned. And the departure of the matter from the general to the particular, and still in the particular cause, before its coming into effect – will be called conception, and its coming into effect – birth….

In any case, it seems that Ramchal wanted us to look at reality as a whole logically, not at everyday claims, in order to understand the three Kabbalistic reasons that stand behind every phenomenon, and this in order to create unity in the system (this requires length and I will not detail it now). This idea is expressed, for example, in the compositions Sod Ha-Ha li-ra'yo. Here is such a passage, for example, at the end of his discussion in Da'at Tivonat on inferences and causal relationships:

(…and not only that, since every thing that is completed has its perfection as something additional to its existence, because it is possible for it to find something other than that perfection. Indeed, two things will arrive at the cause of that thing, namely its finding and its completion, because the existent cause is the complete and constant cause of existence, and the completion of the cause is not the completion of the cause but the perfection of the birth of the cause, so that when it gives birth to everything that is in its nature to give birth to, that birth will be found complete in all its perfection. And all this is simple for one who has followed the paths of wisdom):
And indeed, you have already heard above, that all the things that exist are interconnected, until they all continue one after another, and are born from one another. And all together form one connection, and the reality of one whole, which is not complete except in all these details, and on this depends the beauty and perfection of the world, as we explained this above. And this is a very broad place for us to observe and delve deeper into the wisdom of the Creator in His creation. For every matter that is found in His guidance, we will know that He has in the guidance itself a prior matter that binds it, and He calls it a cause and a begetter, and this cause is what will beget, and it is what will complete the matter that is bound and born from it. And this is the whole of the arrangements that we mentioned above, which unfold in the world from the heavens of the heavens to the depths of the earth, as all that is found, the upper and the lower, the high and the low, are interconnected with each other, and are born and bound by each other… And in this too, His existence will be examined in its imperfection and perfection. All these are simple matters for those who know the ways of the miraculous wisdoms:

mikyab Staff replied 3 years ago

I think this is because the deduction from the general to the particular well demonstrates the necessity of logical argument. If the claim is true of the general, it must be true of the particular included in it.
Ramchal's words are an ideological statement. When I see examples of logical analysis that is useful for something in reality, I will be able to address them in detail. I doubt if there are any. Many who study logic (including your faithful servant) are very enthusiastic at first, thinking that it is the essence of everything and that everything can be based on it. Perhaps Ramchal also wrote out of this enthusiasm.

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