Marriage of a divorcee and a priest
Hello,
My name is L. and I am divorced for the second time.
After many hardships at the age of 41, "I found the love of my soul," but we cannot marry because he is a priest.
I observe Shabbat and mitzvot, and my partner is a believer but observes a little less.
We tried to contact the Rabbinate and other authorities to explore the possibility of renouncing the priesthood so that we could get married and have children as a married couple, but we were met with complete indifference.
During my master's degree studies at Bar Ilan, I learned in a family law course with Professor Shahar Lipshitz that a ceremony that is performed religiously and legally has halakhic validity.
I read the The article about the Oren couple Let's get married with your help and I thought maybe we could use your help.
I would appreciate your advice and opinion.
Best regards and thanks in advance
Hello L. Indeed, according to the halacha, a priest and a divorced woman, even though there is a Torah prohibition on their marriage, the marriage is valid retroactively. But as someone who is obligated by the halacha, I cannot lend my hand to conducting such a ceremony, since it is a prohibition. I doubt whether there is a rabbi who would do this. I am sorry and I understand the distress, but I see no way to help with this.
On the sidelines, I understand that you love each other and want to live together. What I don't really understand is why you are interested in a halakhic marriage. After all, the halakhic law prohibits it. So what's the point of going beyond the halakhic law to be married according to the halakhic law?
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to':
First of all, thank you and much appreciation for your response, and especially for your quick response!
Unfortunately, I understand your answer, and what was said in the margins is certainly food for thought.
I do not need a document or external symbol to testify to the marriage between me and my partner, but rather God's recognition of our relationship and love, which He created through hardships and which we have endured with miraculous perfection.
The most important thing for me is to find a way to get married that will be acceptable and recognized by God, before whom we stand to give judgment and from whom we hope to receive the blessing for success in continuing our path, and from that stems the attempt to get married according to Halacha.
From my limited knowledge, marriage according to Halacha is the best path.
I would appreciate your advice on what the "closest" alternative to God is that we can get married in, if there is one.
Thank you very much!
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Michi:
Hello.
Unfortunately, I don't know of such an alternative, unless your partner's roots are thoroughly investigated and it turns out that he is not a priest or that your previous kiddush are not valid and therefore you are not divorced. But I don't know how to do a test regarding priesthood. It's a complicated story with a fairly slim chance.
All the best,
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to':
Regarding his roots - we checked and apparently he was a priest (they were originally Katz, his father was a priest, everything is permitted and his mother did not sin and transgress, therefore they did not lose their priesthood.).
Regarding my kiddush - about a year and a half after we met, I had a miscarriage and I was afraid that the reason for this was that my previous kiddush wasn't completed because I was with my ex-husband after the divorce.
To remove the doubt, I contacted him and we divorced again (a harsh divorce).
Does this, in one way or another, allow me to marry my current partner?
Maybe the fact that he was with me during the period before the divorce to Harada removes his tenure?
Thank you again and sorry for the inconvenience. I assume you understand how important this is to me and how much sorrow I have as a believer that I will not be able to marry my partner according to religion and law.
And one last question (I'll try):
Although I will never leave my partner - he is the ray of light in my life, I would love to hear your opinion - should we separate and if not, what can we do to legalize our relationship or at least reduce the magnitude of the sin in the eyes of God.
Thanks again and sorry for the inconvenience!
Regards
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Michi:
Hello L.
The question of mystical punishments and retributions (why there was an abortion) is foreign to me. I would not attribute any event that happened to you to this or that act you did. As far as I am concerned, what determines is the law and not metaphysical speculation.
In any case, from what you describe, it seems to me that there is no way out. According to Halacha, you are supposed to separate, and unfortunately I don't know how to offer you anything else. I understand that this is an extremely difficult endeavor, but I don't see any other way out that is Halachaically acceptable.
All the best and much success.
Maimonides (in 1791, cited in the Ks. IsoB) tells how in Egypt he would perform the marriage of a fatal woman, even though according to Halacha this is forbidden, since they apply retroactively (and this is also his invention).
How is it different? Because it's Durban?
I didn't understand. And if it's not different, then what? Conducting a Kiddushin while prohibited is aiding and abetting a crime.
Overall, I have shown that there is a halakhic precedent that does so.
Quote from the words of Maimonides (cited in the Ks.M. Is. 2:22):
And although there are sages who believed that she should not marry, they tell her that if she finds someone who will sanctify her, we will not be obligated to divorce him. They arrange and sanctify her in the presence of two witnesses, and then they write a written document for her in the synagogue, and they bring her into the chuppa and recite seven blessings... and that is what we did in Egypt.
So what is the conclusion? From now on, is it permissible to conduct sin-related kiddush? At most, one can remain in agreement with the Rambam.
But that's not true either (although I haven't checked inside). He claims that there are those who believe that it is a transgression, but they also agree that if there is a rabbi who believes that he cannot consecrate, they will not hold him accountable and will not force him to be expelled. Maimonides himself testifies that in Egypt this is what they did. Therefore, in my opinion, what you said is not written there. But as I said, I haven't seen inside now.
What will happen next - why are there a lack of qualified priests to restore the Temple?
If they get married according to Halacha and his children are disqualified from serving, what will we do?! Is it better for Halacha to let them live under prohibition?
Uzi,
Now I saw. It is in the P'cha (not 22). And indeed, as I said.
By the way, according to the others, there is no real prohibition in this, but rather a danger.
Regarding the last response you wrote, wouldn't it be better for them to continue living as a couple without a wedding and a kiddushin? Or perhaps it would be better for them to go through the law of marrying a divorced woman to a priest once and avoid many acts of fornication?
Besides, regarding the first answer, if we say you knew of a technical way for them to marry, but it involved halakhic and moral prohibitions, would it be permissible to say it? Or in such a case should the truth be concealed so as not to allow them to transgress prohibitions (in front of a blind person or perhaps an assistant)?
As a rule, I don't usually give advice on how to avoid prohibitions. If something is forbidden, then it is forbidden. I have an article about that in a good way, check it out.
I didn't understand the second question. The way to get married is to simply get married. Except that it involves a crime of lawlessness (but the kiddushins catch on).
If I understood the questioner's intention correctly, all she is interested in is being in a situation where she and her beloved are married from the perspective of God (i.e., married halakhically), even if this involves a prohibition (her motive is probably an emotional and psychological need combined with metaphysical matters). It seems to me that she understands right now that without a rabbi of the Kiddushin order, it is technically impossible to reach this state. What I thought was that you refrained from answering her about this was so as not to allow her to violate a prohibition. In other words, if she doesn't know how to violate the prohibition, she won't be able to violate it, and therefore why tell her, maybe there is a prohibition in front of a blind person or an assistant.
Even if this is not the case, I ask in general, if someone wants to do an act that involves some kind of halakhic prohibition, and he currently does not know how to do that act technically, and he asks me how to do the act. Is it permissible to tell him? Or is it better to evade and leave him in his ignorance in order to prevent him from violating the prohibition (emphasizing that it is only a halakhic prohibition without a moral aspect, and that person has some benefit in doing that act).
I still don't understand the question. If he wants to do something forbidden, why should I advise him on how to do it? I didn't say it's better to avoid it, but to tell him directly that you don't advise on how to break prohibitions.
Let's say he has a great need (mental/physical/financial) to do the same act that involves a halakhic prohibition (it's not about doing it to anger, but to satisfy his appetite). On the one hand, if I withhold from him the information on how to do the same act, then I harm him because I am preventing him from that great need. On the other hand, I am allowing him to violate a prohibition that he will probably violate, which until now he was forced and could not violate.
I still don't understand: If it's forbidden despite the need, why should I help him with it? How is it different from any other prohibition? And if it's permitted because of the need, then it's clear that it's possible and maybe we should tell him.
To Oren, why is it forbidden because prostitution is no worse than a mistress?
And by the way, the prohibition is not just once, but on every occasion, whether married or not, as far as I remember.
If one of the witnesses at the initial Kiddushin was a non-Shabbat-observing man, could this be considered a problem and the Kiddushin be canceled and the divorced woman allowed to marry a priest?
This is possible (if he violates Shabbat in public). This should be clarified in the Jewish religious court.
I also have the same problem, but I got married in a civil wedding and my ex-husband is considered a gentile, but my entire life together I was sure he was Jewish because I understood from him that his mother was Jewish, and it was only after we divorced that I found out that only his maternal grandfather was Jewish. In such a case, is it possible to reach a compromise so that I can marry my current partner, who is a priest and we love each other very much, since civil marriages are not considered by the rabbinate, and I was also always sure that my ex-husband is Jewish, and only recently did I discover that he is a gentile? Is there anything I can do? It is very important for my partner and me to get married by the rabbinate.
Unfortunately, according to Halacha, someone who has been married to a non-Jew is prohibited from being a priest, even if the marriage was through rape or by accident. Maybe there are patents that I am not aware of. In any case, if you want a solution within the framework of the Rabbinate, you must contact them. What I say will not be recognized by them in any case.
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