A rabbi who teaches to violate coronavirus guidelines, can his rulings be trusted in other matters?

Benjamin G. Are you Haredi or were you once?

Hello Roni A, I fell into the Haredi fold at the time for about 20 years, thank God we were released.

And Benjamin said:

A. Should one trust the opinions of a person who failed in Judaism and was devout in it for twenty years? Let the Rambam examine the Baalei Teshuvah whose way is to be humble and humble 🙂

B. Is it permissible to trust in medical matters Prof. Yoram Les and Prof. Udi Kimron and others, who believe that they are exaggerating a bit in closing down life due to the coronavirus, when the rates of severe illness and death among its carriers are quite low? And they do not exceed the flu?

Congratulations, Shimshovin Leitz, a complete Da’tal, who has never failed in Haredi 🙂

Shchel, mentioning the fool's name is really a risk to the public. The fact that a scoundrel who doesn't know what he is holding a professor's title doesn't give a seal of approval to the nonsense he says. And the problem is that it gives legitimacy to all sorts of smartass people to belittle the situation. Already today, department and hospital directors are saying that the system is on the verge of collapse and people are dying for banal reasons (like infection or inflammation) because of the overload. And that's with all the steps and preparations. So please don't spread this nonsense widely.

On the 28th of Elul 5771

To Ramadaan, – Shalom Rav,

Not only Prof. Yoram Les. Also Prof. Udi Kimron, Prof. Moti Gerlitz, and Prof. Ariel Monitz, all four from the Faculty of Medicine of Tel Aviv University – believe that the panic and the demand for a lockdown are exaggerated, see for example their article ‘The Apocalyptic Predictions Simply Do Not Come True’ (Haaretz website, dated 10/9/20),

Some of the data has been exaggerated and inflated, intended to increase the panic and encourage the taking of severe lockdown measures. For example: No one bothered to respond to Professor Les' claim that the coronavirus tests do not distinguish between a live virus and a dead virus; the increase in the number of 'infected' people is due to an increase in the number of 'tested' people; those who died of other diseases are also recorded as having died of coronavirus, because they were also 'positive' for coronavirus; the number of 'red' cities was inflated by including yeshiva students who are registered in the city but are not actually in the city; the hospitals are overcrowded in Jerusalem and the north, and probably stem from the increase in the number of patients coming for treatment from the Arab sector.

Equally serious is the fact that the Ministry of Health is sending a 'double message'. They demand strict restrictions on synagogues, much less strict on restaurants and gyms, and completely loosen the leash on demonstrations by leftists and anarchists. In this situation, the impression arises that ’it's all politics’ and in the end ‘this and that beep beep beep’.

The government should have been given clear general guidelines. A requirement to wear masks in public places, allowing gatherings only with a distance of 2 meters from person to person, with each area having a ‘Corona officer’ who would exercise binding discretion according to the situation.

The handling should have been transferred to the Home Front Command, in cooperation with the local authorities and their security officers. As Maj. Gen. (res.) Matan Vilnai testified, there are detailed and practiced plans of the Home Front Command, which every local commander knows and is accustomed to implementing. Instead of handing over the work to someone who is practiced in it and knows the local conditions well, they complicate the situation with a central system that is not prepared for rapid treatment.

With the blessings of good health and happiness from above, Sh.

Dear Sh”t, who will be the “Corona trustee” in the Haredi space, will the Haredim agree to a gentile, secular or religious trustee (Rachael), since it is clear that there is no Haredi who will exercise discretion… actually, maybe Chaim. K will be suitable for the role, since all the Haredim admit that he is the only one of their tribe who is able to exercise discretion?

It is worth reading and listening to some of Les the Idiot's learned assertions and predictions, in order to understand the weight of his opinions and how they should be treated.
For example, you can listen to Guy Zohar, the other side. A few minutes of exhaustive:
https://www.facebook.com/100Tzad/videos/%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A9%D7%9C-%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%9D-%D7%9C%D7%A1/1535184796688979/
Highly recommend listening. Comprehensive and impressive.

Here is an endless pool of ultra-Orthodox Corona loyalists:
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3387330

Here you have some more Corona loyalists:
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3386100

And here's another potential Corona loyalist lift:
https://rotter.net/forum/scoops1/654975.shtml

https://a7.org/pictures/951/951596.jpg

‘Matan Vilnai: Because of politics, the emergency plans were not activated’, on the ‘Channel 7's website)

Okay, let's say Les doesn't understand anything…

The other professors who specialize in immunology – are they also scoundrels?
Or will no information help – Is there perhaps a lock on a distorted concept (due to a national panic attack?) that prevents us from seeing the simple reality?

As soon as the death data from the beginning of the year shows that there is no increase in mortality this year – the conclusion is one:
There is no epidemic, there was no epidemic

And a complete cure for all the anxious people who feed on the media and are convinced that we are in a rerun of the Spanish flu

Monitz and Co. are not fools. (I know them). They are simply not doctors, and they do not have patients with coronavirus whose health they are responsible for. Therefore, based on a logical but not necessarily correct theory, they are willing to conduct an experiment on the population here.
They will probably say the opposite, that the quarantine is an experiment that is unlikely to be beneficial in the long term.
In my opinion, the correct approach is to rely on those who have responsibility for the issue - internal medicine doctors and epidemiology experts, and in general to tighten up on personal protection.
Les is also not stupid. At first, there was not enough data and he thought that the rate of infection of the coronavirus was faster and therefore the mortality rate was zero. And indeed, we already know today that the percentage is lower than they thought, although still much higher than Les said. The thing with him is that he is not a person humble and honest enough to admit a mistake, and therefore continues with empty promises to justify himself. By the way, he does not understand the field either, he is a physiologist.
And regarding the mortality figures, don't worry, in the figures for September and October you will see an increase and know that there is an epidemic. The wise man sees the future and does not wait for the figures to prove him wrong. It is not the Spanish flu, but 1000 deaths is no picnic either. If a hundred died in Lebanon, the country has gone crazy.

In the 2017 AYV

To Avishai, greetings,

Together with Professors Monitz and Kimkon, etc., Dr. Amir Shahar, the director of the emergency department at Laniado, also petitioned the court. In an interview with him, he mentioned, among other things, that hospital administrators have an interest in presenting the most extreme scenarios so that they receive higher budgets. One of the things Dr. Shahar insisted on was that those who died of old age or other serious illnesses are also presented as dead from Corona.

I am not a doctor or the son of a doctor, and I am not professionally qualified to decide this debate. What is clear to me in common sense is that The lockdown, which severely affects the life of the economy and society, has a heavy economic and psychological cost that is no less dangerous than the coronavirus. A short-term lockdown will not help, because after it is opened, the infection will return to a strong level. And a prolonged lockdown is a disaster - economic, social, psychological and medical.

The solution is to continue life with caution. In a system of collective and personal punishments that will distribute prizes to those who are caught strictly adhering to the rules of caution - masks, distancing and preventing crowded gatherings. And anyone who comes to get tested and cooperates with the isolation obligations will also win a prize.

The author has already given the diagnosis in his article "The Generation" that threats and intimidation do not work on our generation - our generation is waiting for information, encouragement and love. This is what will influence and encourage it to do good.

Best regards, Sh.

Regarding the cost-benefit of the lockdown - I'm also hesitant to decide. I'm just saying that relying on the explanation of herd immunity at 20 percent is taking a risk. If you say it's worth 0.25 percent of deaths out of half the country - around 8,000 deaths and I don't think a lockdown is better, hello and goodbye.
Do you want a Swedish model like the professors? Sign that you accept 6,000 deaths (and another 1,200 until the vaccine). They think of making divisions where there are more elderly people, etc., but there are also opposite divisions where there are more disciplined people and the health system is in better shape. The Swedish model means thousands more deaths, you have to be honest.
The dead are always with corona, and when it comes to sick people, corona is also very deadly. So it's true that many times they would have died of their disease within six months anyway, but in most cases it's still a death from corona itself.
I have no problem with those who say that a lockdown that costs billions is not worth saving a few thousand elderly and sick people, but relying on unfounded assumptions and wanting to decide on the laws of life is difficult for me.
The assumption of decision-makers and most experts on the subject that a vaccine will arrive in the middle of winter is therefore worth drastic steps to slow down the pace and prevent the death of a few thousand by then

And I will end with a question: I have seen in the media rulings by Haredi rabbis who make light of all kinds of things regarding the coronavirus, because there is a disagreement among the experts and there is a minority that says there is no need for a lockdown, etc. Is it correct to rely on this or because there is a majority and a minority of the minority here as a Dalit like the Dayanim?
(And I assume that neither side is stupid or inflating the data for money)

In halakhah, there is a discussion of a majority among experts, and it is accepted that it is like a majority among dayanim. But here, in my opinion, we do not follow halakhic rules but common sense (or not).

Well, at least in this case the rules would save those who lack common sense.