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An attempt to understand the Gm in the Sanhedrin Az according to our scientific knowledge

שו”תCategory: Torah and ScienceAn attempt to understand the Gm in the Sanhedrin Az according to our scientific knowledge
asked 7 months ago

Rava said, “He was bound and died of hunger, exempted.” Rava said, “He was bound in heat, and died in cold, and died of debt. The end of the heat will come. The end of the cold will come. The end of the cold will come. Rava said, “He was bound before a lion, exempted before mosquitoes, obligated.” Rav Ashi said, “Even before mosquitoes, I am exempted. I am exhausted. And I am with him. Itamar bound a tub over him and paid for it from leaving.” Rava and Rabbi Zira said, “Debt.” And Rabbi Zira said, “Debt.” He
I will seek help in understanding things based on what we know about the laws of physics and biology, and we will try to understand the GM according to their concepts, which are above.
Here, according to our knowledge, there is no difference between his paw and dying of hunger and his paw in the heat and dying.
According to the ancient understanding, the heat itself is the thing of the harmer, and therefore since the harmer has already been found, he is still liable for death by starvation, even if he is already exempt from starvation, and as it is written in the Torah, God forbade him and died of starvation – even if he was already hungry at the time of his fornication, since if the hunger had not intensified upon him, he would not have died. The end of hunger would have come for him without his blood for his fornication in the heat, a heat that had already fallen upon him that deserved to die.
But according to our understanding, the heat only causes a person to die from heatstroke and dehydration in exactly the same way that they die from hunger, and I cannot distinguish between the two.
And further: “Is it not possible for her to go to her friends in the house of the Lord and light a lamp for her and die, and she is obliged to light a lamp for her? Why should I not light a lamp for her? I do not say that without a lamp the fire does not begin in its time. Here without a lamp the fire does not begin in its time.”
Here too, it is difficult to understand what is the difference between a tub of water and a Beta D’Shesha, and why in Beta D’Shesha without lighting the candle would he be exempt, since in both cases he only causes a lack of oxygen and the entire difference is only in the quantity and not the quality of the gas, and it may be explained that in the way that it is not apparent that it is the cause, because it will take a long time until the oxygen runs out, this is different from a barrel whose power is more apparent in the result. (And according to the rabbinic law, if someone closes a gas valve on Shabbat at a great distance from the flame so that it is not apparent that he caused the extinguishment, this will be different from the case where the flame is close to the gas valve that is closed, and it is possible that in the Torah it would be permissible for a faded lamp to only cause the extinguishment).
And the sages, of course, did not understand the cause of death as a lack of oxygen, but rather that he died from the suffocation that came out of his mouth and had nowhere to go, and therefore in the suffocation barrel, the suffocation immediately begins to act, as in the case of the suffocation, it does not begin immediately, but rather as soon as the candle is lit. Here too, it is difficult to understand because it is only a quantitative matter and not a qualitative one.
And further: Rava said: He threw an arrow at him and a thorn in his hand, and another came and scattered them, and even he went ahead and scattered them, and even he was exempt from the law, because he can be cured. Rav Ashi said: So even a thorn in the market, Rav Aha said to him, “My dear brother, to Rav Ashi, we happened to have a thorn in his hand, what is it?” He said to him, “Then he left the court justified.”
According to the 7th century, whenever a murderer commits a murder in a place where there is a hospital and an ambulance nearby where his life can be saved, he will not be required to die. And this can be good for the Messiah in order not to be punished with the death penalty, and according to the words of the 7th chapter of the plagues. If we were in the Sanhedrin, no one would ever be killed.
And further, “Rava said, ‘He threw a bundle at the wall and it bounced back and killed him.'” And Rashi threw a bundle at the wall – and intended to kill his friend, and threw a bundle and hit the wall with force and it bounced back with its force and killed him – he is guilty, that is, his strength. It must be understood according to Newton’s laws whether the opposing force exerted by the wall is indeed considered his strength.
And further, when Rav Papa said, “He threw a bundle of wood up and it went to the side and killed the one who was responsible,” Mar bar Rav Ashi said to Rav Papa, “What is the reason? Is it because he is weak? Is it because his strength is flowing upward? Or is it because his strength is not flowing downward? Rather, he is weak in strength:”
And in the Rashi, and the way it falls to the side – the way it falls does not fall against him, but when it returns to the earth, it would move away from the side, but if it falls directly and kills him – it is exempt, because its strength is weak, but it returns to the earth of its own accord. It will fall above – it will throw upwards against him, and not to the side. If its strength does not fall below – it will immediately fall against her and not to the side. Rather, it is a weak force – its strength is not strong, but there is some strength here, and if it does not run out above because the force of the force of the throw has exhausted itself and the stone returns to the earth, but it still goes with some of its strength.
Here too, it should be noted that two forces act on the stone: the force that throws it upward and gravity that pulls it downward, and these two forces cause the stone to tilt to the side.
 

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מיכי Staff answered 7 months ago

Too long. In short, I don’t know why you think our scientific knowledge today changes anything. The argument is not scientific but rather a matter of fact. It’s like the division of Tos’ R.F.B. Devak on the difference between throwing an object from the top of a roof and shooting an arrow at it. The question is how it appears to humans, not what really happens there. I have argued about this in several columns (for example, in the pseudo-ontological doubt, in Sabbath work, in the work of a builder, and in the permits of a grama, etc.). It’s like I once wondered why it is forbidden to turn on electricity on the Sabbath, since it is a transfer of fire (transfer of the current to the device). Similarly, drowning someone in the sea with your hands is a death with your hands, not just a deprivation of oxygen. Just as putting him in a fire is not a grama, even though the fire burns him and not me. And here scientific knowledge has not changed since then, and yet the sages divided in this way.
 

מוטי replied 7 months ago

Thank you very much for the quick answer.
I will summarize briefly:
Rava said, "He who has bound himself and died of hunger is exempt," and Rava said, "He who has bound himself with heat is liable." I am unable to understand why in the first case he is exempt and in the second case he is liable.

מיכי Staff replied 7 months ago

I answered. The heat is an external factor that killed him. Hunger is internal. Like shooting an arrow at the vessel versus throwing it off the roof.

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