Between Christianity and Judaism
Hello Rabbi!
A. Regarding what Maimonides wrote against Christianity, saying that to say about the very Trinity that one is never three and three is never one is a mistake because it contradicts logic, but to say that there was a parting of the Red Sea is against nature, and if that is not a problem, does the Rabbi agree with this argument?
B. Does the rabbi have an article on Christianity in relation to Israel or even in general?
A. If I understood your question, you are bringing up the distinction between a logical contradiction and a physical contradiction. I stated this in my book Two Carts (chapter 13, I think). I definitely agree. And so did Rabbi Si’ Sheld, I think, in his Responsa to the Rashba.
on. I don’t have an article on Christianity, and in my opinion the whole issue is unnecessary and stupid. First, because there is no mass influx of Jews to become Christians. Second, because any treatment of it would be biased and quite stupid because it is treatment from the outside (much like treatments of Judaism from the outside). This reminds me of an article in Bezahar (issues 1 or 2) that quoted several passages by Rabbi Chi Kook on Christianity. He quotes passages from the New Testament and comments on them. I literally died laughing when I read it. Real stupidity. He complicates the New Testament from the extremes and points out contradictions. There are a thousand times more blatant contradictions in our writings, when you look at them from the outside without the empathy of a believer that brings you to the point of resolving them. This is exactly how Christians can reconcile the contradictions in their writings and be completely unimpressed by criticism from the outside.
In general, quite a few of the ideas of the Christians are found in us in a very similar way. But with us you are ordinary and empathetic and know and recite the usual excuses. That’s the whole difference. “Holy is the blessing of Israel and the Torah is one,” do you know? Does that remind you of anything? And I think I once heard in the name of the Ari that it is literally true. And what about “the mitzvot are void for the future,” do you know? So with the Christians, the “future” has already arrived with the coming of their Messiah, and therefore the mitzvot are void. And what about the transfer of the work of the firstborn to the priests, do you know? So that’s how he could transfer his choice of Israel to the Christians. The whole difference is in the question of why you have empathy and why not. They don’t have any greater contradictions or stupidities than we do.
Therefore, I suggest leaving the Christians to their faith and us to ours, and stopping these stupid debates. All the contradictions in their writings can be resolved in Shofi, I assure you. There are quite a few highly learned and talented Christians, no less than the Rambam and Reka. Therefore, it is unlikely that you will catch them talking nonsense. These debates are intended for inward (to show the masses of the House of Israel who lack confidence and education how wise we are and how stupid the others are). Someone who is insecure must build his identity on the negation of the other, but that means his situation is quite bleak.
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Asks:
Hello Rabbi!
A. Indeed, there is no mass influx, but there are videos on YouTube of Jewish missionaries bringing Jews closer to Christianity on the same principle you talked about (negating the other), and my secular friends have even started citing quotes on why Christianity is more reliable.
B. If I understood your answer, then question A that I asked also has no existence at all.
C. If you don’t care about Christian issues 1. Then why are you a believing Jew just because you were born that way?
2. So you are a pluralist?
D. I would prefer that a rabbi in Israel not express himself in such a disparaging manner towards Rabbi Tzvi Kook, even if your opinion contradicts his position.
With thanks and forgiveness
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Rabbi:
A. And therefore? If an argument is raised, it can be dealt with. But arguments for and against Christianity and Judaism, and especially pointing out contradictions, are completely stupid. When your secular friends inform you that they have been convinced and are going to convert to Christianity – you can refer them to me.
on. I didn’t understand this comment. I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on what you mean (not just specify question A or B, because I don’t keep up with the many correspondences here).
third. I am a Jew who believes that this is what seems reasonable and logical to me. On the other hand, it is possible that if you were born a Christian, that would also seem logical to me. I am not at all sure that there is an absolute truth here, since it is possible that from the perspective of God, everyone is supposed to do what seems reasonable to them. The exclusive discourse (that is right and that is wrong. Heresy and not heresy, etc.) is mainly for internal purposes.
2. I tend towards pluralism in religious contexts. There is objectivity on the moral and factual levels. There is only one truth.
D. My opinion does not contradict his position because I did not see a position there. I believe roughly what he believes, but his arguments against Christians and his very discussion and method are stupid and ridiculous in my opinion.
happily,
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Asks:
A. If you say that it is inappropriate to point out contradictions in Christianity, then saying that the Trinity is a logical contradiction is also nonsensical.
B. If you say that there is no need to point out contradictions between Christianity and Judaism, then it is not appropriate at all to say that there are contradictions in Judaism itself, which is also stupidity.
C. Based on what the rabbi makes the divisions, when am I a pluralist and when not? This sounds absurd.
D. Does the Rabbi know the book “Memedim HaNevoha” by Rabbi Shem Tov Gefen and what is his opinion about the book on the subject of mathematics and physics?
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Rabbi:
A. No belief in itself is a logical contradiction, because things depend on interpretation. To say 3=1 is a logical contradiction, but that is not the Trinity. And that is what I said.
on. I didn’t say that contradictions shouldn’t be pointed out, but that there’s no point in pointing out contradictions, because every contradiction depends on interpretation. What I wrote is that if you call the Trinity a contradiction, then in your opinion, the statement of the Zohar, “Kudsha B’rich is Ori’ta and Yisrael is one,” is also a contradiction. In my opinion, these and those are not contradictions, and I added that it’s foolish to think that they are. Contrary to what the Herzi tried to show, these are not fools. They are no less smart than he is, and they certainly didn’t fall into such stupid contradictions. Intelligent people don’t just talk nonsense, even if they are Christians. You certainly won’t catch them for that. Some of the greatest scholars and philosophers of all generations were devout Christians, so it’s arrogant folly to think that they can be caught for that.
third. To each his own. I argue that there is a difference between morality and facts, in which there is one truth, and claims about the manner of religious work, which can depend on the person and his environment. There is no contradiction and no problem in such a statement, but those who see it as absurd will not accept it.
D. I know the book, and of course it is outdated but very interesting and original. I remember that his language in the second article didn’t resonate with me (I didn’t understand what the “ha” he was talking about all the time was).
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Asks:
Hello Rabbi!
Regarding the discussion we had about Christianity and the contradictions, and yet I saw a video on YouTube of Messianic Jews pointing out the problematic nature of the Oral Torah.
A. It was never mentioned in the Torah and only through a hint, they demanded the verse “according to” meaning the Oral Torah and also “to whatever is prescribed” This is only for the police themselves and the court to rule, but there is no obligation to hear from the rabbis themselves that this is their invention.
B. According to the Gamma of Baba Metzia, 55 in the Torah of Akhnai, where in a discussion between the sages and Rabbi Eliezer, supernatural miracles are recited, and the sages say not in heaven, the meaning is, we conquered the Lord of the world, and the Torah is according to the sages, not according to the Blessed One.
C. And does God, blessed be He, need all the commandments that the sukkah be of such and such dimensions?
D. What is the Oral Torah for the Rabbi in general and is it not an invention that was founded about two thousand years ago?
E. Regarding evolution, there are new studies that show that, for example, the pendocyte is not an evolutionary relic but rather plays a significant role in pregnant women.
Thank you very much, Rabbi!
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Rabbi:
These all seem like extremely weak claims to me. It’s really not something to be bothered about. And is their messianism actually mentioned in the Torah? I think you should focus on more intelligent heretical writings and methods. It’s a waste of time to waste on this nonsense.
A. Why would the Toshbap be mentioned in the Toshbak? It accompanies it and was given with it. The Khuzaris already insisted that it is unlikely that verses were given without explanations. The authority of the sages is also a simple explanation. And is there a legal system without institutions authorized to interpret and decide on it?!
on. That’s definitely what it says there. And so?
third. And does God need what is written in the Torah?
D. Its foundations were handed down at Sinai and it has been developed throughout history.
the. And therefore?
Q
How can you write such heretical things in the name of the Ari and your source is “and as I think I heard once”?! There is no basis for this in the words of the Ari. And how do I know? Because I have read the perceptions of the Ari followers about God, and there they write that all the Sephiroth and the attributes of God are nothing but to please the ear, and in truth above we find only thin lights that are incomprehensible to the human mind.
4 months ago
Miki
Peace be upon you.
What is the matter with the Shemita for the Havita? What is the connection between the Sephiroth being thin lights and pleasing the ear and the question of what is the meaning of the statement that the Lord Israel and the Torah are one?
It is clearly evident from your language that you understand nothing in this area. Anger (at a poker like me) is no substitute for understanding. So instead of reading the “perceptions of the followers of the Aryans on the Godhead”, go out and learn.
By the way, have you read the perceptions of the followers of that man on the concept of the Trinity, and see if they also mean the subtlest of lights?
4 months ago
Q
The connection is not clear? To claim that the people of Israel are God in the literal sense of the word in the name of the Aryans is a distortion of the Aryans’ words. It seems to me that you claimed what you claimed only because of the pluralistic attitude you demonstrate towards Christianity, i.e. we have nothing to criticize its theology, since we also believe in a similar belief, so to speak.
Not at all – if you find Christian theologians who claim that the belief in the Trinity is not literal, and that man is not God from their perspective, I will immediately retract my words. Meanwhile, the only Christian figure I have heard who rejected the divinity of that man is one of the pastors of the Evangelical Messianic Jewish sect. I would love to hear about other Christian figures who hold the above view.
4 months ago
Mikhi
1. You did not explain the connection.
2. Since you are dealing with things you understand nothing about, it is difficult to accept unfounded statements.
3. Regarding the belief in the Trinity, it is much more obvious than the “Aryan followers” that you read (?). You don't need my lessons, just browse a bit on Wikipedia (= the website of the “Information followers”, those who want it can access it without spending a lot of time).
4. By the way, have you heard about the belief in the reduction not as simple as in Hasidism and Kabbalah? Maybe you read about it among those disappearing “Aryan followers”?
4 months ago
Q
1. I think I explained. But if you claim I didn't, I would first be happy to have a source in the Aryan language that sees the above article as it is. Because, with apologies, “I think I once heard the name Aryan”; that's not really a source.
2. You're right.
3. This is what the information followers said: “Today, anti-Trinitarian movements constitute a minority in the Christian religion. Among the Christian groups that espouse anti-Trinitarian views are especially the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, but also the Brotherhood of Jesus, Christian Science, Unitarian Universalism, Iglesia ni Cristo, and others”.
You are right, there are other streams besides what I recognized. What is between them and the main streams in Christianity that are idolatry?
4. The followers of the invisible Aryans: See Kook, for example, in Orot, Zer'onim, Assurim Me'rakim: “Every definition of divinity leads to heresy, the definition is spiritual idolatry. Even the definition of reason and will and even divinity itself and the name God is a definition, and without the supreme knowledge that all of these are but sparkling flashes of what is above definition, they would also lead to heresy. And in people who have completely deviated from this original opinion, they truly lead to gross heresy’.
I will later bring you more extensive sources without a vow.
4 months ago
Mikhi
1. The question of whether you explained or not is not a matter of opinion. It is a question of fact. There is no explanation for this in your words. And, not that I don't agree, but there is no explanation.
As I wrote, I heard that once, so I made sure to note it as a rumor. And contrary to what you said, that's not what the building is built on. It's really not important to the discussion, because there are different interpretations both there and here.
3. First, there is still a difference between a certain leader of Messianic Jews and several Christian sects. Second, the Trinity has received many interpretations, and even if we accept this identification, the question we are dealing with here is what the identification means, not whether there is an identification. After all, that man was a man and God is abstract and omnipotent, etc. So what is the meaning of such an identification? It is clear that it is some kind of abstract identification, just like with us. These are different faces of one entity, or one expresses itself through the other, etc. Just like with us.
The main streams in Christianity do not know how many arbiters (and I, the little one, agree with them). His character regarding Catholicism I am not sure I agree that it is a עז (for the reason I wrote here), but regarding Protestantism the things are ancient (there are articles in their fields and more. You can find them online). And if everyone does believe in the Trinity, then why don't everyone worship the עז? Because the Trinity among them (for example, among Protestants) is not as simple as it seems. And as mentioned, it is probably the same among Catholics.
4. Well, the mystery has been revealed: followers of the Ari = Rabbi Kook. Berg and Laitman are also followers of the Ari, and so is Madonna (without comparing). You found certain interpretations by a certain commentator (who is known for the many contradictions in his words and in which you can find everything. And by the way, this is not a criticism of him but only a clarification of how difficult it is to draw conclusions from his words) and you drew sweeping conclusions from this that my words have no basis in the words of the Ari. Now your criticism of the lack of foundation of my words (which were presented to the Hadiya as many times as I heard) is perfectly understandable.
5. It is a waste of your time, no sources from the “followers of the Aryans” will be of any use here. Each commentator takes his words to his own realm, and the differences between them are as big as the ocean. Therefore, instead of bringing all the sources and scanning all the writings of the Aryans, I asked you a completely simple question to which there are well-known and famous answers. What about the perception of the reduction not as simple? After all, this is an ancient dispute among the Kabbalists to this day. Is this also a parable? Or did the “followers of the Aryans”write that it is not as simple? Isn't the reduction not as simple the Trinity squared?
6. And finally, if you examine the “followers of the same man” You will see that there too, you can find sources that interpret the Trinity in the same way (as thin lights, etc.). In fact, this is the accepted interpretation there. After all, the Father precedes the other two in the Trinity. And the three are distinct beings who are identified with each other and not really one. This is the usual and accepted dogma there, and not an esoteric interpretation of disappeared Hasidim. The fact that everyone accepts the Trinity is like the fact that with us everyone accepts that the Holy Spirit, the Divine Presence, and Israel are one. The question is what is the meaning of this identification and whether or not they accept it.
7. But as mentioned, all this chatter is pointless, since interpretations can be given to everything. There is no right or wrong here, and it is also really uninteresting (I certainly have no interest in defending Christians and their belief in contradictions, just like their Jewish brothers who believe in contradictions). As I wrote, these comparisons have nothing in them beyond empathy or lack of empathy. That is all. You interpret those you love accordingly, and those you don't love you interpret literally. That's all, and that's what I wrote.
I think we've exhausted it.
4 months ago
Q
Thanks for the responses.
4 months ago
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