Chaim’s instruction. K – “Do not be tested” ???

From what they wrote, it seems that he did not issue a general instruction, but rather, like the idea you raised, he answered this in a *specific* way only to yeshiva heads who asked him about it, that they are doing the capsule outline in full (and besides, I saw that the yeshiva they were talking about is already closed enough on a regular day and without cell phones at all…).
It was probably because of the fear of abrogation of Torah and spiritual corruption. In any case, from what I understood from the articles, he did not issue such a general instruction…

Benjamin, why don't you ask Rabbi Kanievsky himself?
You ask and ask for a response from someone who doesn't ask the Rabbi, doesn't know the Rabbi and doesn't know the concept of “faith of the sages”?

To the point,
While the secularists are raping a girl en masse in Eilat. Yeshiva boys in boarding schools are going through extraordinary difficulties so that they can study.
I have boys in yeshiva and I also hear from my friends about the difficulty in organizing themselves in yeshiva.
They don't leave the yeshiva!!!!!!! and don't come into contact with anyone except the yeshiva boys.

What's different from a corona motel???? Do they also do tests in a corona motel???

Why are you looking for deep explanations for such simple things??? Open your eyes and see where you live!!!!

Tzachi is absolutely right, we just need to make sure that only yeshiva students who don't leave the yeshiva are allowed to do so.
Although the question still arises whether the virus has side effects and freedom of choice should be allowed to a guy who knows about the danger (although anyway if he stays in a normal hotel he will be at no less risk)…

We need to stop with the heated discourse against the ultra-Orthodox and anti-Semites!!! It's time for us to go to war against the abominations from the tashkurot! Show them that we are better than them in terms of their observance, morality and everything!!! While these jerks are trying to blame us all the time. Liars.

Tzachi Shalom!
Don't they go to the grocery store next door to buy pastries, milk, etc.?
Do they order everything online on their kosher cell phone?
I studied in one of the closed yeshivahs in Bnei Brak and we would still go to the grocery stores around the yeshiva and to pizzerias, etc. even during Elul, and no one opens their mouth and beeps. I find it very hard to believe that there is a yeshiva where the young men are actually locked inside the building without going out. (Apart from Or Yisrael?) In addition, in most yeshivahs on Rosh Hashanah, old people from outside the yeshiva come to pray in the yeshiva, and in many supervisors' conversations, people from outside come.
With blessings.
In addition, even if the claim is true, it is not possible for a person who has not taken on the responsibility of treating all citizens with the coronavirus to decide to divide them without considering the consequences for others. If each group decides for itself according to its own logic and basket of values, our situation will be very bad. In Arab society, there is a kind of religious obligation to attend the wedding of everyone who came to your wedding. This is a high value in their eyes, about the same as canceling the Torah with us. Would you like them to decide for themselves?

Any shred of seriousness in discussing the chatter of the saintly old man who lives in La La Land is delusional. What happened to his servants' ability to tell him, "Sabala, come have a cup of tea, come, want a cookie, here, take a breath, breathe, say, can we make a cart upside down next to a flowing puddle like they do in Tishli?"

https://socialrevolutioninhumanthinking.wordpress.com/2020/04/06/%d7%94%d7%90%d7%a9%d7%9e%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%9c%d7%a9%d7%a0%d7%90%d7%aa-%d7%94%d7%97%d7%a8%d7%93%d7%99%d7%9d/

On the 14th of Elul, 5752,

Already half a year ago, Rabbi Kanievsky and Rabbi Edelstein prescribed the limits and conditions under which one can study in yeshivahs: ventilated rooms; ‘space between herds’ (Bela’z capsules), a supervisor responsible for caution; and the avoidance of sick or suspected sick people from coming to the Beit Midrash so that they would not be ‘obligatory to others’ (when the Ministry of Health required wearing a mask – the rabbis also added this requirement).

It is clear, therefore, that a young man who feels healthy, and ensures that the time of Elul will be ‘Elul’, a time of diligence and immersion in Torah, while observing the boundaries and restrictions, both Torah and health-related, and of course refraining from leaving the yeshiva, not for weddings and certainly not for wandering. Then he is spared both spiritual and physical dangers.

With blessings, Sh”t

The problematic nature of tests that do not detect a live virus and that may infect the remains of a virus that has long been dead and has no risk of infection was already addressed by Prof. Yoram Les in his letter to the Director General of the Ministry of Health, Prof. Hezi Levy. According to Prof. Les, in order to detect a live and active virus, a culture must be done.

It therefore follows that even someone who is tested and found to be 'positive' may be carrying a virus that has died, and this would cause unnecessary isolation for everyone who was close to him and unnecessary inflating of the 'statistics of those infected'. Therefore, the guidance published in the name of the Gerhk that a healthy person without symptoms should not be tested for nothing, lest it waste time without a real medical need, seems plausible.

And of course, someone who feels symptoms – You should be examined and undergo all the tests and treatments according to the doctors' instructions, and be careful not to enter the hospital and not to be a "bondservant of others", as instructed by the rabbis.

With blessings of good health, Sh.

For clarification
To what extent does a person have to give up his principles in order to appear good if there is indeed logic in his words? In general, the statement that there is a certain logic in his words and the subsequent public saying that his words are foolish requires clarification.

There is no waiver of principles here. Just common sense and learning from experience. There is no control over who issues such instructions and there can be no control. This is not a decision by a private individual to overlap. These are irresponsible nonsense, and they are not within his authority (all my comments from that column). What I wrote is that in the things themselves, if it could be ensured that they would be implemented only in hermetically sealed places, if there are any (and to note at the end of the day that this hornet's nest does not go outside into homes), there is some logic.

Shalom Rabbi.

You wrote: ” I am not surprised, but if his words also apply to those who should be tested according to the guidelines, then this man should have been put in prison for sedition and incitement”, and: “These are irresponsible nonsense, and they are also not within his authority”.

I do not support Rabbi Kanievsky's views, and I was one of the first to argue here on the site that he should resign from his position as Minister (of the Torah), even before the column in question.

However, as far as I know, there is no legal obligation to be tested, in any situation. No law has been enacted, and there is no such regulation (unlike the obligations to isolate or wear a mask).

Therefore, even if the words are nonsense (in my opinion this time for a change, they are not), there is no issue of authority here. As long as the instruction does not conflict with the law, everyone is allowed to instruct others as they wish, and the listener will choose whether to obey.

I would love a response!

I don't know what kind of response you were expecting.
I can tell you and the other commenters, except for Mr. Simcha the ”Great Scholar”
I am now returning from a Friday night visit to my son's yeshiva.
The boys can only be met when a nylon oilcloth partition separates us. And that too when there is a fence that keeps him away from the nylon on one side and me on the other.
For those who don't know (and especially Mr. Simcha the ”Great Scholar”), the parents had to send bail checks because a student who doesn't comply with the capsule rules can be fined.
Yes! The yeshiva hands out reports!!

My nephew's yeshiva in Kiryat Sefer has a grocery store across from the yeshiva. At 12:00 at night, police cars arrived and opened a lane for the boys so that only they could shop at the grocery store and return to the yeshiva without endangering anyone.
So if Simcha the scholar studies in a yeshiva that does not follow the rules or there are other yeshiva that do whatever they want. This has nothing to do with
Grech Kaniysky.
And Benjamin Gurleyen the Goylem will be honored to gnaw his questions along with the crackers at the Shulchan Shabbat!!

In the name of the Lord, you are blessed in your return and blessed in your departure

The revelations about the increase in the incidence of the disease in the Haredi community in recent times stem from the increase in testing in yeshivas. The most strict among the heads of yeshivas made sure to test all the young men coming from the "between times", which is not done in any secular educational institution or on any secular street, and it is simply that when you test an entire population, you find more "carriers" of the virus.

If they had tested all the visitors to the cafes on Gaza Street and all the visitors to the demonstrations on nearby Balfour Street, They would have discovered that Rechavia is a red-hot neighborhood, and the employee from the office in the area was stuck in lockdown due to the arrival of Goel Tzedek, but fortunately for the HM, his neighbors in Rechavia are not as "suckers" as Haredim, and are not going to be tested en masse, and therefore the Haredim are "red" and the people of Rechavia are "green".

These are the wonders of the "religion of meditation" that transforms colors into a red cow that transforms from impurity to purity and vice versa 🙂

With blessings, black, yellow, white

Hello again, Tzachi!
I didn't understand what the fuss was about, I described the conduct in my yeshiva when I studied there 10 years ago, not about the Corona virus, and about the level of control that really exists over boys.
I don't understand what it matters what happens in your son's yeshiva, what matters is whether it is possible to give an instruction to the entire public when you are not the one who goes to monitor and verify what is happening there.
Is the situation you described the situation in all yeshivahs, in the majority, in a certain known part? Does R’ Chaim or someone around him know which yeshivahs are observing and which are not? Will what is now observed last the entire Elul? Are only the young committees observing or also the older ones? Does no one go to meetings with girls?

I didn't present myself as a great scholar, I asked questions, and I haven't received an answer yet. There is some yeshivah that apparently observes strict rules. Nice. And what does that say about the rule?

A clear example of the rule that when testing entire populations, high percentages are found, I just saw in an article (on Channel 7) about the ‘Corona outbreak at the base”D 1) Following two female soldiers who tested positive for Corona, the entire base was tested and 30 Corona carriers were found, all in mild condition. And if that is the case at the officer school where there is high discipline – one can describe what is happening in the general public.

In short: all measurements and statistics are nonsense. The main thing is to be careful about wearing masks and hygiene, and avoiding close contact between people, and when you feel symptoms, go get tested. Most Corona carriers do not suffer from any symptoms or only mild symptoms, and the semi-minor minority – will be tested and treated. The name of the game is: caution without hysteria, and the’ May He send us all good health and almighty blessings from above.

With greetings, guarding without hysterical measures

And I'm the only one who still doesn't understand why anyone would even consider the holy old man's chatter. It turns out that his content is right, it turns out that the content is wrong, what's the connection? My advice to his followers is to bring him some candy, pat him on the hand affectionately, let him cut off a few curls for the halakha, and ask him about the laws of the mikvah.

PR. No one pays attention to your nonsense!

Line 4
… In the Laws of the Burning Heartburn.

And a note:
In the Laws of Lesions we learn exactly how to deal with contagious skin diseases, by ‘closure’, ‘isolation’ and ’on a mustache” 🙂

With blessings, protection is needed without hysteria

“And I will give children to be their princes, and fools shall rule over them” Isaiah promised. One scripture says, and a little child shall rule over them, and another scripture says, that the child is a hundred years old. Blessed are we, the last generation, that we have been privileged to stand by the words of the prophet, which the first generations were not privileged to do. If you are near the beloved shepherd, perhaps you can give him a tissue to poke his nose in and smile at him a little, so that he may be happy.

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-politics/2020_q3/Article-def2c601d386471027.htm

If that's what the former Minister of Defense tells us, what will the wall mosses from the Haredi concentrations say?!

Why do you have to go far? Please from News 12
Gamzo retracts his comments about Rabbi Kanievsky: “Regret the misunderstanding”
The Haredi sector has been under fire in recent days following the comments of the Corona Commissioner about the leader of the Lithuanian community, Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky • Gamzo accused the rabbi of endangering Haredi society by calling on yeshiva students not to get tested • Now, Prof.’ Gamzo apologizes: “From an investigation I conducted, it appears that there is no and no order from Rabbi Kanievsky not to get tested – regret the misunderstanding”

On the 19th of Elul 2017,

As written by ‘Israel a red state? – Not sure at all’, says economist Prof. Nissim Ben-David (President of the Western Galilee Academic College) that the State of Israel was labeled a ‘red state’ because we do many times more tests than is customary in the Western world, and when we test more – we find more. This may be good from a medical point of view, but it complicates us economically by negatively labeling us in the world.

Best regards, Sh–t

And I already mentioned above what Prof. Yoram Les said about the problematic nature of the test that cannot distinguish between a live virus and a dead virus. Therefore, the numbers do not reflect the number of new infections at all, but the number of people who have ever been exposed to the virus, including those whose natural vaccine has long since killed the virus. To know if it is really a live and active virus, one must do as Prof. Les says, a culture.

This mistake explains well why, despite the “explosion of infections”, there is no increase in the rate of serious illness or mortality. The “explosion” is in those being tested, not in those being infected 🙂 The main thing is to be careful about washing your hands, wearing masks, and keeping a distance between people and not crowding too much. And just relax.

And see more in Ido Efrati's article: "Doctors in Knesset Debate: Stop the Intimidation, Stop Talking About a Closure," on the "Haaretz" website.

Maj. Gen. (res.) Matan Vilnai says in an interview with Channel 7 that, when he was Minister of Home Front Defense, an emergency plan was prepared for epidemic situations, according to which the heads of local authorities who know their city, with the help of their committees and the Home Front Command's liaison unit, lead the fight against the epidemic. Vilnai laments that for political reasons the plan that was practiced was not activated.

Best regards, Sh„t

Shalom Rabbi.

I wrote a comment here a few days ago in the thread above, and I would be happy if you would respond

You wrote: “I am not surprised, but if his words also apply to those who should be tested according to the guidelines, then this man should have been put in prison for sedition and incitement,” and: “These are irresponsible nonsense, and they are also not within his authority.”

I do not support Rabbi Kanievsky’s views, and I was one of the first to argue here on the site that he should resign from his position as Minister (of the Torah), even before the column in question.

However, as far as I know, there is no legal obligation to be tested, in any situation. No law has been enacted, and there is no such regulation (unlike the obligations to isolate or wear a mask).

Therefore, even if the words are nonsense (in my opinion this time for a change, they are not), there is no issue of authority here. As long as the instruction does not conflict with the law, everyone is allowed to instruct others as they wish, and the listener will choose whether to obey.

Aharon

I have nothing to comment on. I wrote that if he teaches against duty (as he did last time) he should be put in prison. That is indeed true.

Another thing, it was announced that the city of Bnei Brak is calling on healthy residents to get tested in order to lower the percentage of patients and move from ’red’ to ’orange’, and this is the text of its message:

“We call and appeal to all residents of our city: Tomorrow during the day, free testing complexes will operate throughout the city. Go get tested! Even if you feel great and healthy and precisely because of this, this will be our proof to the world, that Bnei Brak is strong and healthy. Not red and not a center for the sick.

Here is the source:
https://www.kikar.co.il/373683.html

Do you see this as manipulation?

Aharon

Aharon the righteous, (above)
Did you get into some deep subject??

In retrospect, it turned out that everything was in Dota and Hebrew nonsense.
Suddenly, receiving a sea of responses…

I don't know what manipulation means. As long as the tests are real and the call to get tested is appropriate and useful, then what's the problem? On the contrary, in my opinion, one of the rationalizations of the traffic light policy is to incentivize municipalities and people to act against the coronavirus. So it's great that it's actually being done here.

Needless to say, nothing was found out. Neither in the dota nor in the nonsense.

Too bad.
You can read in my response above an excerpt from News 12 regarding Gamzo, which regrets the misunderstanding.
And anyone who wants can look directly at News 12.
Indeed, in dota and nonsense.

There is manipulation here because in other cities only those who are concerned that they are sick are going to be tested.

In Bnei Brak, healthy people are being tested intentionally to influence the data.

This patent means that the numerical data will not reflect reality.

Tzachi, I don't understand what the fuss is about.

Secondly, when you ask for a response from the rabbi, your response is probably not an equal substitute.

See Hadashos 12 and also in Wala and Me'ariv and more. Please stay updated!!
No such order was given by the rabbi. And even the flip-flopping shuffling project retracted his words.
A response from the rabbi is certainly more respectable than my little one.
But what can I do, I'm a field worker and I know what's going on inside. And there's no substitute for a response that comes from inside information!

Anyone who is up to date with "Hadashois 12 and also in Walla and Me'ariv" is an armchair man, not a field man.

Lord of the world. I'm tired of the shallowness of the guys here. Everything needs to be explained to your little daughter Rachel.
I wrote you a response above from a visit I made to my son's yeshiva in Jerusalem. And information I have about other yeshivahs like my nephew's yeshiva. Or the sons of my friends.
You have no knowledge of what's going on in the yeshiva world and you haven't even stopped to look.
You're not up to date on the news either. So what are you up to???

Forgive me. I repeat myself.
In the response I wrote above, I forgot to mention my name (which is not really my name) Tzachi.

I did not deal with what happens in the yeshivot.

My discussion above focused only on Rabbi Kanievsky's words and whether they constitute sedition.
A “field man” in this matter is someone who hangs out at home in the Rashba’m.
If you don't come to the house, you are not a field man in this matter.

Best regards,
Aharon Harod

To Aaron – Shalom Rav,

Didn't the entire transformation of the Haredi cities begin with manipulation. In contrast to the situation everywhere where only those who feel symptoms are going to be tested – here hundreds of yeshiva students without symptoms were tested before the start of time, and naturally when you test more, you find more, because the test does not distinguish between a live virus and a dead one.

The second stage of the manipulation was to attach the ’positive’ who have been in yeshiva for two weeks to the cities from which they came, and thus cities whose leaders cooperated and did everything to reduce the incidence became ’red’ illegally. And caused their population unnecessary and unjustified suffering.

Let's hope that the heads of the health system who went into quarantine on the same day that they illegally aborted tens of thousands of Rabban babies – They will understand that they need to ‘recalculate’.

You should read the criticism of Dr. Aliza Bloch, Mayor of Beit Shemesh, about the conduct of senior officials in the Ministry of Health who issue decrees without coordinating and consulting with the heads of local authorities who are familiar with the situation in their city.

Best regards, Sh”T (grandfather of four grandchildren in Beit Shemesh)

Ahahaha. I understand.

So if I may. Since we are discussing a theoretical question, after all, the Rabbi did not say this. And the mouth that forbade is the mouth that permitted.
Since Gorlin brought the source from Ynet. And what news site refuted the information.
So we should discuss whether, theoretically, what the Rabbi said is still a rebellion against the Kingdom of Heaven and the State of Israel?
Which makes decisions based on political motives. Which makes decisions based on presentations and graphs and not on the ground level (I don't know if you've ever heard Moshe Leon on the radio. And I don't think so)
And they probably also understand that the "ground level" is being in Gamzo's house or inside the Ministry of Health.
Shall we continue? The State of Israel that makes decisions by pulling them out of their hip. (And it doesn't seem like you got to see Mrs. Shasha's committee)
So you heard about some sentence that the Rabbi said and you're jumping in?
Look into it in depth and ask questions.
But the question is only theoretical, right?
Well. I have to say you really confused me.
Good luck, Rabbi Aharon.

Beit Shemesh Mayor Dr. Aliza Bloch's criticism of the conduct of those imposing the lockdown in the articles: Aliza Bloch fights the imposition of the lockdown in Beit Shemesh and Aliza Bloch: I'm still waiting (on the Channel 7 website, 17-18 Elul). We are waiting too 🙂

With best wishes, Sh.

You probably didn't read what I said.

I didn't jump.
I explained why I think there is no problem with such a directive (whether it was stated or not).

Just for those who don't understand what Gamzo means by the fact that the order did not come from Rabbi Kanievsky.
The rabbi had a stroke a few months ago, and no order comes out of his mouth.
You can see his condition from the few photos and videos that the family members release.
And as Amit Segal explained, it's all an internal quarrel between the courts, Kanievsky's people want to fight the competitors and therefore issue bizarre orders supposedly in his name.

Please friends:
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3389171
I recall that in the bitter debates that were here about the outline of the capsules in the yeshiva and the iron discipline that would be imposed so that no one would go anywhere (alek), I wondered what would happen if the guys went out between the times.

What is the content of the barriers?

Hundreds are infected in yeshivahs and in the Haredi world in general, due to failure to follow the capsule schedule. And the Health Ministry is very afraid of returning home on the eve of the holiday. They are expecting what they call a mass attack.

I'm not sure that's what will happen, but of course this whole issue involves taking serious risks,
because in a yeshiva where there is a corona patient, there are probably already hundreds of infected people and I assume that it's very difficult not to notice this, and in this case, as far as I know, the entire yeshiva is no longer released after the day. So what are the chances that there is someone sick with corona in the yeshiva who will not cause a huge part of the yeshiva to be infected so that no one will notice?
On the other hand, if in recent days there was someone who entered the yeshiva and infected even one person, then it is possible that this person who only recently developed symptoms could still infect large parts of the entire yeshiva on the day.

—-
D”A Rabbi, I'm not really involved in the yeshivahs that are doing the capsule layout, but from what I hear in the media, it sounds like some of the infections occurred as a result of one person leaving the yeshivah, or as a result of the open capsule, and if so, it's not because of the boys.

And the simple solution: They will take the testing workers out for the ’interim’. They have already tested a quarter of the country and found that more than 10% carry the coronavirus. It is assumed that there are about a million coronavirus carriers in Israel, most of whom are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms. It is a shame about the unnecessary panic.

We must continue to live while wearing masks and maintaining social distancing and preventing crowded gatherings. And whoever feels symptoms should go to be tested and treated, and whoever came into close contact with him will also be tested. And peace be upon Israel.

With blessings of health and peace, Sh”t

.

In the 2017 Lawsuit

For the record, it would have been better for the Shivut and their students to adopt what Chief of Staff Aviv Kochavi did, ordering a ‘curfew’ for fighters and soldiers in training. Soldiers of the IDF also Torah students would do well to persist in studying Torah even during these difficult times (with all the “capsules” and precautions and the right to devote themselves to Torah).

Also for their personal, medical and spiritual safety, it is better for them to study in yeshivas where there is relatively more space and air, than to return to cities and crowded neighborhoods and wander the streets doing nothing. I fear that it was not the return to studies that increased the infection, but rather the “Great Holiday” and its equivalent “between times”.

In any case, “spiqa da’orita la khuma’rat” and “marveh Torah ’marveh chayim”. Holidays were not given to Israel except so that they would continue to toil during them. In the Torah.

With regards, Sh”t

Paragraph 1, line 4
… And the right to diligently study the Torah will increase health and blessings for all the people of Israel.

It's not because of the boys, or at least not because of them. It's because of the stupid decision of the ultra-Orthodox leadership to leave them to study and ignore the instructions and the tests. It's what I wrote above.

Shchel, you have already been warned that this statement is a statistical error. It is a shame to repeat it over and over again.

However, in coordination between the heads of yeshiva and Maj. Gen. (res.) Roni Noma, the coronavirus project manager in the Haredi sector, thousands of yeshiva students were tested before returning home. Those who tested positive will spend the time in yeshiva that were prepared for this purpose. See the article “Thousands of Yeshiva Students Tested Before Returning Home,” on the Haaretz website.

They once said of those who practice their Torah, “the tears of Noma’s robe.” Today Maj. Gen. Noma ensures that they do not stop studying 🙂

With blessings, Sh.