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Conversation with a friend

שו”תCategory: faithConversation with a friend
asked 2 years ago

Hello Rabbi, my friend and I are both religious, but he is a determinist and I am not. After a conversation with my friend, he illustrated his idea to me by saying that I have to choose between path A or path B, and if I choose path A, a lion will eat me, but if I choose path B, a bus will run me over, so his conclusion is that there is no choice, according to the example he gave, and I didn’t know how to answer that. What do you think?


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מיכי Staff answered 2 years ago
I didn’t understand the argument. You can choose between A and B? So why is there no choice? Because you always die in the end? So here’s a counterargument: Let’s say you have to choose between A and B. In A, you’ll be run over by a bus, and in B, you’ll be run over by the bus. The collection of words you wrote doesn’t connect to any coherent argument for me. In short, explain the argument to me first, and then I’ll try to think of a response.

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פינחס replied 2 years ago

Indeed, as you mentioned, because according to the example he mentioned, no matter which path you choose, you will die, and in my friend's opinion, there is no choice, which raised doubts in me, and that is why I wanted to know what you think. And regarding what you just said, did you mean run over the bus in the sense that the bus will move off the road quickly so as not to run me over, thus crashing and causing an accident? In any case, the argument is that there are situations (I will note that my friend said "that this happens in most situations") that no matter what a person chooses, the same fate happens, and that a person has no choice. What do you think?

מיכי Staff replied 2 years ago

I don't see an argument here, but a statement. He assumes without any basis that the same thing will always happen to me (and even then it's about me having a choice whether to go to A or B). An incorrect assumption in my opinion. That's it. What should be answered here?

פינחס replied 2 years ago

True, I don't agree either. But I forgot to say that he gave as an example actions that are simply forced on a person, that even choosing to stop them will not help, for example any seizures, from which he draws his conclusion that everything is determined and fate will happen to a person at some point in some way, no matter what, when and how the person chooses (I hope I made his point clear enough…) I really appreciate that you respond to every comment, by the way.

מיכי Staff replied 2 years ago

Now you have moved on to another question and I don't understand it either. The fact that sometimes a person acts without choice means that he always has no choice? And that we are always under attacks and compulsions?
See my two articles here:
https://mikyab.net/%d7%9e%d7%90%d7%9e%d7%a8%d7%99%d7%9d/%d7%9e%d7%91%d7%98-%d7%a9%d7%99%d7%98%d7%aa%d7%99-%d7%a2%d7%9c-%d7%97%d7%95%d7%a4%d7%a9-%d7%94% d7%a8%d7%a6%d7%95%d7%9f/
And here:
https://mikyab.net/%d7%9b%d7%aa%d7%91%d7%99%d7%9d/%d7%9e%d7%90%d7%9e%d7%a8%d7%99%d7%9d/%d7%90%d7%95%d7%98%d7%95%d7%a0%d7%95%d 7%9e%d7%99%d7%94-%d7%95%d7%a1%d7%9e%d7%9b%d7%95%d7%aa-%d7%91%d7%a4%d7%a1%d7%99 %d7%a7%d7%aa-%d7%94%d7%9c%d7%9b%d7%94/%d7%9e%d7%93%d7%a2%d7%99-%d7%94%d7%9e%d7% 95%d7%97-%d7%95%d7%94%d7%9e%d7%a9%d7%a4%d7%98-%d7%9e%d7%91%d7%98-%d7%a4%d7%99%d 7%9c%d7%95%d7%a1%d7%95%d7%a4%d7%99-%d7%9e%d7%93%d7%a2%d7%99-%d7%a2%d7%9c-%d7%94

פינחס replied 2 years ago

Thank you Rabbi! I wish I could answer you, but I also don't understand what he meant here, and I do not agree with his (A and B's) claim that was stated above.

מיכי Staff replied 2 years ago

So if it doesn't bother you and you don't agree, why are you asking? You don't have a question. If he has a question, let him ask.

פינחס replied 2 years ago

I will direct him to a site that will ask you.

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