Corona in Belz

On the 23rd of Tishrei, 5:15 AM

To my friends,

The Rebbe of Belz warned his followers that anyone who is not feeling well or has symptoms of the disease must leave the Beit Midrash and return home.

There was also a call from the Beit Midrash that anyone who feels even one symptom should lock themselves in their home and not go out until they are fully recovered. See the article ‘In the Name of the Rebbe of Belz: Corona Declaration in the Beit Midrash’ (on the ‘Kikar Hashabbat– website from 13 Tammuz 5:15 PM).

Since he knows that his followers can be trusted to obey and voluntarily self-isolate even with mild symptoms - there is room to say that the fear of infection in public spaces from asymptomatic carriers is smaller. Therefore, when the fear of the psychological damage of canceling the life of Torah and prayer is at stake - in the opinion of the Belz Rebbe, it is reasonable to be content with the complete exclusion of those with symptoms.

Regarding the "test of the outcome", I will note that from the article: "Pray: These are the severe coronavirus patients from Belz Hassidut" (Kikar Hashabbat, 1st Av), it appears that in the Belz Hassidut, which numbers thousands of families - there were only 7 seriously ill patients at the time! Of course, voluntary self-isolation is something that can be done in a relatively small Hassidut where obedience to the Rebbe is absolute. Therefore, I would not suggest that less obedient societies learn from the success in Belz.

Wishing you a healthy winter, Sh”t

Paragraph 3, line 3
… The fear of spiritual harm in canceling the life of the Torah …

Shat, if the words of the gerach and the Rebbe of Belza are so understandable and reassuring to you, why do you remain in the Jewish community? Why don't you rise, higher and higher, by donning a kaputah and wearing a shtreimel, and singing songs in the tabernacle?

Since the main goal of the lockdown is to reduce the burden on the health system, it makes sense that it is in the interest of each small group to ignore the matter, knowing that in the event of a patient, there will be enough room in the hospitals. If everyone was in Belz (and others and less), then Belz would encounter much more serious difficulties, and the only dream of those who do justice to themselves is that others will absorb in silence and spread a health safety net under their roofs. Like the story about a town where everyone agreed to pour a saucer of wine into a barrel in the center of the city so that they would have a barrel for a holiday, Oyber Hokeam Moishkovovich brought a saucer of water because what's your mind? If everyone brought wine, who would feel my water? And if everyone brought water, why would I come off as a sucker? In the end, everyone did bring wine, and Moishkovovich came out jubilant and happy that the fools were fooled. Finally, at the end of the day, the aforementioned fools took him, smeared a juicy piece of bread on his face, and fined him a hundred dinars until his face was as dark as Solomon's sheets. To this day, he sits alone and silent, and a dove pees on his head morning and evening.

On Tishrei 24, 5771

To Nathan, Shalom Rav,

What we learned from the Rabbi, Rabbi Beit Yosef, is: Before compiling a Shulchan Aruch for all Israel, one must gather all the systems and opinions, striving to understand in depth the rationale and reasoning behind each system. Only after clarifying all the systems can a clear decision be reached: what is the essence of the halacha, what is the most agreed-upon opinion of the halacha that should be followed from the outset, and what are the less agreed-upon opinions, which should only be relied upon in times of need.

Our Rabbi Rabbi Cook, the rabbi of the London religious community (who was also a member of the Spodic Order), taught us that, as in Halacha, so in questions of faith and outlook, and also in questions of public leadership, one must study all the methods in depth and understand their reasons and justifications, and only from the comprehensive clarification of the various methods can one who has reached the teaching decide what is the "right way."

I try to apply the same approach - understanding the various methods and their reasons - to every question that is on the agenda, and this is what I am trying to do with the question of the "Corona" that is on the agenda.

I personally agree more with the approach of the Gerach and the Gerach Edelstein, that Torah life and prayer should continue, but the requirements of health experts must also be adhered to, to prevent large gatherings, to divide into small groups, to ensure ventilation and to wear masks. Measures that allow the routine of Torah life and prayer to be maintained while maintaining health.

This is the ‘king's way’ agreed upon by most of the great men of our generation from all walks of life, but alongside it we also have a duty to understand the different methods here and there, such as the method of the Gerach Asher Weiss who called for the Ministry of Health to be much stricter and to continue closing synagogues and yeshivahs even when the Ministry of Health permitted it.

And against it, one must also understand the method of the Belz Rebbe, who believes that there is no need for distancing in synagogues and yeshivahs, and for this I offered the explanation, that since they are strict, anyone who has even a slight symptom – should voluntarily isolate themselves. Understanding the method – does not require accepting it in practice, as we do with every issue that we clarify.

With blessings, Sh”t

By the way, the only Hasidic ’tish’ I attended in my 62 years, was probably the ‘tish’ of Belz, which I went to with friends at the Merkaz HaRav yeshiva about 40 years ago. Perhaps thanks to this ‘tish’ I was privileged to stand by the Rebbe's opinion forty years later 🙂

In paragraph 6, lines 2-3
… that because they are stricter – that anyone who feels even a mild symptom, will voluntarily enter isolation until they are completely healthy – they can ease up on distancing in public spaces that are free of symptoms. Understanding the method.. does not require accepting it….

The big mistake here is that the Belz Rebbe's method shouldn't interest anyone. It's really not important to the discussion whether he has good reasons and whether he's right. His audacity to decide for the entire public in a place that owes it to the latter and without anyone appointing him is an audacity for which he should be in prison, and one hour earlier. Instead of learning the profound teachings of this idiot, this is what should have been done to him. Again, regardless of whether he's right.

The method of the Rebbe of Knavisky should not interest anyone. He should be in prison, and even better, one hour earlier!!!

Why don't you say that about the restaurateurs who are rebelling and about the majority of the people of Israel who violated the guidelines and went outside the 1,000 km radius?

https://m.maariv.co.il/amp/business/economic/israel/Article-794934
The business revolt, in short, we are at the height of anarchy and every anarchist gets articles and coverage, but if he is ultra-Orthodox then he is an impudent and idiot who should be in prison and there is no need to discuss at all whether his words are good and whether he is right, because it should not concern anyone, the Rebbe of Lod ruled, there are people for whom the world is a parable, and the parable is money and they and only they should be heard and encouraged.

You're so uninterested in the Lod break that you try tens of thousands of times to free yourself from your senses and talk yourself into knowing

Oh, it's like eating, not like a bill.

In column 335, Haras wrote in Tod”d For some time now, I have felt frustrated and helpless in the face of what is happening around me. The discourse has been lost. The facts have stopped playing a role because there are always counter-facts, suspicions and conspiracies (some of which are justified), and different interpretations (some of which are really stupid but presented emphatically and by omniscient “experts” who only spread an agenda), and in fact you can never know who is right and who is wrong. What is reliable information and what is not. Not to mention the analytical abilities and independence of thought that no longer exist. People make completely stupid arguments with complete confidence, because all the facts point to it. And yet, this or that genius or expert clearly said so. Why is he a genius and an expert? Because he tells the truth – that is, he thinks like me. Is his genius relevant to the discussion? Of course it is. Why? Like that, because he is a doctor…. What I show here from time to time is that the fact that you are a genius and a doctor is irrelevant to the discussion and debate.

Rabbi wrote*

https://tech.walla.co.il/item/1546865

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%92%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99%D7%94

Rabbi,

A. Please provide a summary of the content in the link you posted, for the benefit of those who are blocked.

B. You have explained several times that in extreme cases there is room for civil disobedience and refusal of an order.

Someone brought up the example of the restaurateurs here. If they feel as one that the state is ignoring them and not compensating them properly, we can understand their disobedience, even though their need is sectoral.

How is the Belz community different? They have an existential need for a certain kind of religious life, and they feel that they do not have a listening ear in the government.

Rabbi,

1. Please provide a summary of the content of the link, for the benefit of those who are blocked.

2. You explained several times that there is room for civil disobedience and refusal of an order in a place where the instructions are unreasonable.

Above, you gave the example of the restaurateurs. If the restaurateurs feel that the government is ignoring them, we would understand if they were to disobey the government.
Why is it different here? Why is it not possible to understand that the Haredi community feels that the government does not see their basic needs, and does not have a listening ear?

Dear Chaim, the Rabbi has moved into the realm of demagogy when it has been proven numerous times that he is acting out of an agenda and silencing people, instead of dealing with claims and facts.
In the link he included instructions on how to neutralize trolls.. This is how it is when there is nothing to answer, they move to petty lines, I have added a link to the demagogy entry.
Don't expect your questions to be addressed, Chaim, because there are no answers.

Life at your request from the Wikipedia entry:

False analogy – Using some similarity between two matters, to create a complete correspondence between them, while ignoring essential differences.
Distorting the opposing party's claims – Making the opponent look like a fool and an idiot, by distorting his claims and presenting them in a ridiculous light.

On the 24th of Tishrei 5781

Ramda ”a – Shalom Rav,

Does the Rebbe of Belz ‘owe to the latter’?

The current situation in the country following the attempt to eradicate the Corona through closures, is the greatest debt imaginable.

After all, the closure is destroying the economy and social life, and its medical and mental damage is no less dangerous than the Corona. And its effectiveness in the long term tends to zero. After all, when they open the closure, the epidemic will return, and what good did the sages do by regulating it?

So necessity will not be tolerated, and we must look for solutions to the problem ‘outside the box’, since even the experts do not really understand the behavior of the virus, and do not offer a paved path to a solution. So it is not unnecessary to seriously examine other ways of coping.

Regarding the “method used by the Rebbe of Belz” – placing everyone who feels symptoms in voluntary isolation at home, while only the completely healthy remain in the public space – there is room for two questions:

(a) Is it effective?
On the one hand, there is a problem that even an asymptomatic carrier can infect others, and on the other hand, it is possible that such a carrier still has fewer chances of infection, especially severe infection, because the lack of symptoms shows that the amount of viruses in the carrier’s body is small (and for this reason, for example, the “second to Corona” – someone who has come into contact with someone who has come into contact with a confirmed Corona carrier – is not placed in isolation).

(b) Can this be a systemic solution for the public?
Voluntary isolation of anyone who feels weak or sick can be carried out in a small Hasidic community, believing in obedience to the Rebbe's instructions, and besides this, the individual's fear of the community's watchful eyes. I don't think this can be a solution for the entire public, who may adopt the disregard for distancing in public spaces, without adopting the necessary condition – voluntary self-isolation of anyone who is a little sick.

With a healthy winter greeting, Sh”t

Regarding prison admission –
I think that since the vast majority of the country's citizens violate the quarantine laws or at least ‘round corners’ – it is better to put the virtuous individuals who observe the regulations ‘light and severe’ in prison, and that way the few righteous people will be safer 🙂

On the 24th of Tishrei 5751

Why should we starve the troll? As Jews, we are commanded: ‘And satisfy the hungry soul, and satisfy the hungry soul’ 🙂 On the contrary, it is our duty to be ‘educated to the poor’, and there is no poor except in knowledge, and to give the disputant an answer that will leave him satisfied.

And the different shades of ‘troll’ Here:

If your troll is hungry, – feed him bread,
the bread symbolizes knowledge. Do not pour it on the head of someone whose position irritates you. Address the ’hard core’ Of arguments matters that are in the midst of a flood of arguments in your company, and explain your position, while supporting it with reasons and evidence.

You will not convince your opponent who is already fixed in his position, but there is a chance that your words will be heard by the undecided reader –. In any case, you are ‘heaping coals on the head’ of your bread (not on the head of your opponent…), for you yourself your method will be more clear and well-founded, due to the need to deal with your opponent's arguments.

And if your troll is thirsty – give him water
Do not read ‘thirst’ but ‘fast’. Often, the stubborn arguer who attacks rudely over and over again is simply thirsty for attention, which when he does not receive in a positive way, he seeks in a negative way. Do not withhold attention from those who thirst for it, but instead of the fire of the jam, water it with refreshing water of kind and non-offensive humor, which will bring a smile to the face of the most enraged troll. And may we reconcile with you!

With the blessing of "We are believers, sons of believers", Moomin-Troll

In the last paragraph, lines 3-4
… But instead of the fire of contention, they watered…

Momin troll, it's too easy to dismiss someone who stubbornly argues with you as a result of a demand for fasting on his part and then reach a solution of watering him down with kind humor. This automatic solution (“often”) in my opinion (and based on our shared experience, and each person according to his taste) simply indicates an advanced fixation on your part that allows you to stand by your opinion even when the error is obvious by itself or the other person has explicitly pointed it out to you (and in his opinion=in my opinion – in claims that if the Ramban had seen them, he might have said that sometimes our Torah does have a kind of wisdom of deduction). The dignity of courtesy in its place is laid, but when it is only verbal, it loses most of its importance.
Most people simply write what they see without deep trends. In rare and notable cases, the Torah does indeed come out in a hinomah: a troll before you will not touch, will not be tired, will not hear, will not succeed, will not absorb, a useless and pitiful snoozer.

To Mominama – Hello,

Indeed, there are many arguers who repeat their arguments over and over again, because they do not have the patience to read beyond a line or two to find the full and detailed answer to their arguments.

Such arguers can benefit from a brief summary of the matter. To the extent that even a brief summary and clarification are not helpful – there is no need to continue the argument, and it can be stopped, since the discussion has exhausted itself.

Best regards, Sh”t

This morning's publication in Yedioth: Despite the morbidity in the army, the Chief of Staff announced, "We will carry out the major exercise in the north even at the cost of 1,000 infected people. There is no choice, we must be prepared. The coronavirus cannot paralyze the IDF."

Everyone and their values Here it is the Chief of Staff and there it is the Adm.

Are you okay?

The IDF’s readiness for war is not a matter of values. It is a matter of human life (well, human life is not a value for you and the Rebbe of Belz). The risk of death in war (and from injuries and disabilities) is simply much greater than the risk of death from Corona. Only infantile Harediism can compare these two things. Everything is a matter of life and death for the Haredi? Even second rounds? It has been said that this can be thwarted in the highest heavens.

Emanuel.
You probably didn't read the explanation of the Rebbe of Belza, as presented at the beginning of the thread, he claims that spiritual death is more serious, you can argue, I just proved that everyone and their values do as they understand even though the constitutional system says to do the opposite.

https://twitter.com/amit_segal/status/1316423266249117698?s=20
https://twitter.com/amit_segal/status/1316425133368713216?s=20
And for the benefit of the blocked ones…. Amit Segal: Conclusion from the plunging infection data: The gap between the media coverage of the extremists who are debauched on holidays and the silent and responsible majority has never been greater. Food for thought not only on Corona matters, but in other areas. All of our coverage focused on a few hundred on the beach and a few thousand Hasidim, but the vast majority of millions of Israeli citizens strictly followed the rules. This is the nature of the media, but here there is real mathematical proof that it may be worthwhile to think outside the box of extremism in the future in other areas such as economics, politics, and more.

Latham- Hello,

I was wondering about you: in our time when it is dangerous to go ‘outside the capsule’ – you suggest ‘thinking outside the box’ ? Didn't the sages say: A man in his box will live’ 🙂

With blessings, the box of the R”

It's really scary to go out, especially if you're not going to protest. .
https://youtu.be/ctM9DjjrRVg