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Debate

asked 3 years ago

Peace and blessings! I had an argument with my friend on Saturday. He made a statement that I thought was clearly illogical, but I couldn’t put my finger on the problem. I would appreciate it if you could help me with that.
We discussed the issue of whether a moderate sign would be useful for rabbinic prohibitions, and in fact we began to discuss the question of whether the standard of proof required for rabbinic prohibitions is indeed lower than for Torah prohibitions. He wanted to explain that the reason why the standard is lower is not necessarily related to the fact that rabbinic prohibitions are easier, but rather to the fact that there is a fundamental difference between them and Torah law – they are gabra prohibitions. He wanted to say that it can be explained that gabra prohibitions do not only prohibit the action on the part of a person, and this is only a secondary result of the regulation. gabra prohibitions are essentially a command for a person to consciously treat the object of the action as forbidden (poison), and the consequence of this is that a person is also forbidden in practice to do the action, since if he does it, it is proven that from a conscious point of view he does not treat it as poison.
He argued that the advantage of this is that the prohibitions of the Sages were originally designed only for situations in which a person could control his mind and treat the act as forbidden, but in situations in which a person would not be able to feel this way, the Sages did not amend their regulation.
He explained that our brain works in a way that is not the same as statistical thinking (see Daniel Kahneman’s books), and therefore the moment a person sees a mediocre sign, then even if statistically it is not a good enough sign, from the person’s mind the doubt is simplified and he is no longer truly able to treat doubt as doubt – that would be pretense from his point of view.
Therefore, the standard of proof in rabbinic prohibitions is much lower because in Torah prohibitions, which are arbitrary prohibitions, we are still searching for the objective truth, but in rabbinic prohibitions the condition is that the person can truly develop a state of consciousness of prohibition, and therefore….
He wanted to explain based on this why doubting the rabbis is permitted even though it is a Torah prohibition according to Maimonides, based on the above principle.
Sounds like too many somersaults in the air to me – what do you think?
 


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מיכי Staff answered 3 years ago
I don’t know what is meant by a medium mark. To recover a loss? I will address the actual claim. First, the assumption that the prohibitions of the rabbis are the prohibitions of the gods is not accepted. But if one adopts it, then in general there is certainly room for such interpretations. But there are rabbinic prohibitions that are decrees of Torah prohibitions, and for them I don’t see how this can be attributed solely to consciousness. This is a real fear of reaching Torah prohibitions, and if it exists, it must be prohibited. Rabbi Elchanan Wasserman wrote in an article that all Torah prohibitions in which doubt is a matter of conscience (doubt of a bastard, doubt of a firstborn, doubt of mourning, doubt of impurity in a household, doubt of circumcision abroad, and so on) are prohibitions of conscience. This is exactly the explanation you mentioned, but regarding Torah prohibitions. However, according to his view of prohibitions of conscience, he permits any ordinary doubt and not just in a milder situation (moderate mark?). One must explain from the law of something that has a permissibility that was made more severe by the rabbis in doubt, and the explanation in the Rishonim is that until you eat something forbidden, you eat something permitted. According to his method, this is not eating something forbidden, because in doubt, it is completely permitted and not rejected. Indeed, it must be rejected. Regarding the doubt of the Rabbis in the Maimonides’ method, there are good explanations and there is no need to resort to this explanation. In any case, even if you do need this explanation, it does not permit any doubt, but only a slight doubt (medium mark).

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אמיר replied 3 years ago

Thank you very much, does Rabbi Elchanan's article appear in a collection of lessons or a collection of notes or in some Torah monthly?

מיכי Staff replied 3 years ago

It is supposed to appear as an article in a Torah journal edited by him in Baranovichi. I learned about it in a class I heard many years ago from Rabbi Hershel Schechter, but I have not seen it myself.

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