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Does the rabbi have the feeling to pray following the crisis?

שו”תCategory: generalDoes the rabbi have the feeling to pray following the crisis?
asked 6 years ago

Hello Rabbi
 
Following the crisis. Although God is here in Israel, at least right now (March 30) we are in a relatively good situation. There are not many ventilators, and there are not many deaths compared to other places in the world. The rabbi will probably believe that this is “relatively correct decision-making” and others will believe that along with decision-making there is also divine providence in Israel.
 
However, very difficult news is coming in about what is happening to Jews abroad. Especially in the United States. It is said that in the United States, the Jewish communities have suffered a relatively severe blow compared to the population there (which is also suffering difficult blows). Rabbis and community leaders are hospitalized and some have even passed away from the burden of the mitzvot. There are already quite a few children who have been left fatherless. This hurts the hearts of many Jews.
 
My question is a somewhat intimate one for the Rabbi –
 
Intellectually , the rabbi is quite convinced that there is no divine intervention, and even if they pray, it probably doesn’t mean much. But does the rabbi still have some emotion that awakens him to cry out to God and ask for healing and providence in light of the difficult situation the entire world is experiencing?
 
Best regards, Ehud


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0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 6 years ago
Hello Ehud. It seems to me that if you examine the data in an unbiased manner, they show the opposite of the intervention hypothesis. The Haredim are sicker than others. The majority of infections occur in synagogues. There are places in the world whose situation is not worse than ours (this does not only apply to us). And now add to this the data you cite on Jews abroad, including rabbis and leaders, who are also Jews. To conclude from this that there is truly divine intervention would have to be particularly biased. I don’t have one.

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אהוד replied 6 years ago

The intervention thesis of a Jew, like me, who does not believe in the approach of the streamers is that:

1. Jews are more protected in the land compared to Jews living abroad.

2. When permission is given to destroy, the likelihood of protection over a person decreases.

This is explicitly written in Jewish sources. For example, “And if it were so,” speaks clearly at the general level.
And in the Holy Zohar (Varashi) it is written that when permission is given to destroy, there is no distinction between the righteous and the wicked.
And, there is no shortage of other sources that write that we are all in the same boat. And if there is a hole in the boat, it harms everyone.
So, somehow it turns out – the current situation complies with the rules of divine intervention as it appears in the sources.

3. Israel's situation is good relative to the world, and excellent relative to its geographical location, and relative to the mixing of people here with other European countries. Factual.
Why is the situation in Egypt better right now (assuming they have reliable reports)? I don't know.

By the way, I haven't checked this, but logic says that the thinning of traffic on the roads in the last three weeks has probably prevented dozens of serious accidents, including a large number of deaths and serious injuries (with injuries for life). Simple statistics.
Therefore, *at least right now*, with the 16 deaths from the coronavirus and those on ventilators, it is reasonable to assume that there were more deaths and serious injuries in serious accidents (which at the moment probably almost never happen in Israel).

4. Regarding the relatively many sick Jews in ultra-Orthodox communities in Israel –
Where does it say that righteousness can be measured that determines that the Haredim necessarily have the highest level of righteousness that should be arranged for them with “ultra private supervision” that should overcome the rule of “the destroyer does not distinguish between a righteous man and a wicked man”?
Besides, even if they are righteous who deserve “ultra supervision”, why do they currently place less emphasis on “mutual guarantee”?

I hope that God will inspire the Rabbi to pray and cry out to Him for the healing of Israel.
I believe that the Rabbi's prayers are important and influential, just like any prayer.

אהוד replied 6 years ago

Oh and one more thing, regarding the mass contagions in the synagogues –

I don't know what sources the rabbi is referring to, but the Bible says that the Temple burned down, and it is likely that masses of Jews died right in the Holy of Holies.

Moreover, there are examples of people who clung to the horns of the altar (I assume the rabbi knows) and yet were harmed, and not only harmed, but harmed by all the prophets of God!!!!

Z”a, contrary to what the rabbi is trying to say, from a serious examination of the sources (the reliable ones of course), we see that sometimes there is no protection in holy places, when the measure of justice is upon the person.

If so, I would be very grateful if the rabbi could show me the source in which he reads that there is *definite* physical salvation in a holy place, when the measure of justice is upon the person.

I would be happy for the rabbi's answer regarding these sources (with the conditions as explained above). Thank you

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

Ehud, I did not provide any source and I do not see the need for it. You are missing the logic of the discussion.
What I wrote is that providing evidence from the situation during the Corona pandemic in favor of the involvement thesis is absurd. If anything, the conclusion from the yellow here is the opposite. It is true that if you believe in this thesis, the situation during the Corona pandemic can be explained by you. The gates of excuses have not been closed.

אהוד replied 6 years ago

Forgive me, despite the introduction to my question, the question was actually whether the rabbi has a feeling for prayer.
The rabbi answered it in two words: – “I don”t have”.

I agree that it may not be possible to prove divine involvement from the Corona case.

But I have a question for the rabbi: – Does the rabbi believe that there is a mass infection specifically in synagogues, evidence that there is no divine involvement?

ב. replied 6 years ago

I think we see intervention and oversight here,

Those who are normal are infected less, and those who are sicker – more.

Isn't this oversight?

מיכי replied 6 years ago

As I explained: no.

אהוד replied 6 years ago

Hello,

Apparently the Haredim here in Israel did not implement the decisions of the Ministry of Health. They “got mixed up”.
The Haredim abroad are the same – they got mixed up (although they probably didn't warn them much in advance there).

In fact, *until now* we hear heartbreaking horror stories from Haredi Jewry in the United States, mainly from Borough Park and Brooklyn.
https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1090602

But on the other hand, *until now* for the Haredim in Israel, may God bless his name forever, there are no horror stories.
Although there are a large number of patients relative to the rest of the situation in Israel (such as in Kiryat Yearim), the overall mortality rate and the severe illness are really very, very negligible, probably also in absolute terms to what is happening in the world, and probably relative to what is happening among Haredi Jews in the United States.

This is the third time I mention – this is the situation *right now*.

Assuming that the epidemic spread here and in the United States at about the same time, and in both places the synagogues and yeshiva were full until just two or three weeks ago. And assuming that it is possible to maintain some kind of reference system between the number of Haredi here and the Haredi in the United States,
as a supporter of the thesis of divine intervention, I believe that when the final calculations are done, it will be possible to check whether the trend of providence here in Israel was indeed correct.

It is important for me to emphasize that I do not know the heavenly calculations, and I am not saying that it will necessarily be correct, but on the other hand “the wise man has eyes in his head”.

Good luck!

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