Effort and Providence in the Thought of the Prophet
Shalom Rabbi, first I wanted to know what you think about the analysis that the Chazon Ish makes between the private effort that a person is obligated to make and providence. In the chapter “Non Ya’ach Duff” the Chazon Ish rules that even when a person’s alimony is already fixed for him, he is obligated [when ordered] to make an effort, regardless of the outcome that has already been decided in advance. What is the compromise of that effort? [I found this method of the Chazon Ish in other places he wrote]
I don’t think the GHQ did any analysis. He expressed a position (a position is not an analysis, as long as it is not based on arguments, definition of concepts, and a systematic analysis of the problem).
As for the substance of the matter, the claim about the obligation of effort seems to me to be baseless (this is Druze fatalism, which is very far from the perception we have received and which is reflected in our sources), and since I appreciate the Hazo’a, I assume that it was said only so that the common public would not be forced to give up their naive belief that everything comes from above. And it is not.
Just think how this fits in with the supplications on Rosh Hashanah for our sustenance. Is this also just an obligation to strive? Or does prayer work? And if prayer works according to the will of God, then why not our striving? And why even strive if it is of no use? Geziak? Where is it written? Is there a source for this commandment to strive, or does it come from an explanation? Note that there is an explanation here that people invented that has no explanation behind it. Why should I accept such an invention?
Regarding requests in prayer, a good question. As far as I understand, God is generally not involved in the world and it operates according to the laws of nature. There may be rare cases where this does happen (since it is impossible to know in every case who caused it). Therefore, from the perspective of the Jewish people, these requests do not have much point, and certainly not where there is a natural way to address the problem. There is only a problem of authority to change the wording of the prayer, and therefore it may be worthwhile to prepare for God to heal someone somewhere in the world (since sometimes He may indeed intervene). But in general, it seems to me that there is no divine intervention in our world and certainly there is nothing to build on that.
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Asks:
Hello Rabbi. From the Chazo’s rulings, I got the impression that he was a unique halachic judge who did not strive to please the people, but rather ruled based on an attempt to achieve the closest thing to the truth he understood. In my opinion, he transcended the definitions of a strict or lenient halachic judge. In my opinion, he developed critical halachic thinking whose goal was to strive for absolute truth. With the awareness that this was a truth that he had achieved. He developed a position in halachic that, while it was possible to play with it a lot, created difficulty in disagreeing with it. Therefore, it is a bit difficult for me to understand that he considered ordinary people in his rulings. Regarding the effect of prayer, the Chazo”a thought that it does have the power to influence providence, but even when providence is constant and does not change, there is a dry halakhic matter without any emotion in the duty of effort. He writes regarding the right of a craftsman to delay his friend, “Only if he is ordered to delay, he enters into the duty of effort on his part, and the duty of removing harm on the part of his friend. If he is not ordered to delay, there is no duty of effort on his part, and there is no harm on his friend, but the one who deprives the bosom of every creature will certainly give him enough of what he lacks…” [21:2 Bava Batra] That with regard to a craftsman of the Bani Mata, everything that can delay his friend is not on the side of reality but on the duty of effort. And even if the Rabbi does not agree, then let him explain to me the necessity that arises, otherwise how can we understand the power of the craftsman to delay
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Rabbi:
Hello Haim.
It seems to me that every posak worthy of the name ignores the definitions of strict or lenient. Such definitions are the business of scholars. The posak does what he thinks, and the scholar is supposed to determine whether he is lenient or strict. And indeed, it is clear that the Chazo”a was like that. And yet he still has strange claims (like two thousand years of Torah and more), which I believe were written to preserve the accepted perceptions so that a barrier would not be breached. But this is of course just a hypothesis (precisely because I am one of his followers, I do not really believe that he himself seriously believed this).
I don’t see what’s special about this source. Can’t we say that the power of a craftsman to delay is a legal principle unrelated to theology, and the theological explanations are intended to reassure the person that the Creator will drive him crazy with His law? Just as effort is right on its own (because it is the one that has an effect), and what they say is that it is of no use at all, but that there is only a legal obligation to do it, is to reassure the masses who believe that everything is in God’s hands.
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H:
Your views stem from Christianity regarding divine intervention in creation, because we believe that no man lifts his finger from below except in this way.
Announce above
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Rabbi:
First, I don’t examine opinions by asking where they came from, but rather whether they are true or not. So it really doesn’t matter to me where the opinions came from and why they are similar. For my part, whether they come from Christianity or the Holy Spirit or as inspiration from reading a Zelda song.
Secondly, a statement like “we believe” is really absurd in my opinion. How do you know about someone else’s beliefs? Say “I believe that so and so”. People tend to think that their beliefs are “Judaism”, and then their ability to listen to other possibilities decreases and they become locked into these opinions even where they are absurd. The opinion that no one lifts their finger from below as you interpret it is a logical contradiction (if you believe in free will. I believe in it), and therefore there is nothing here but a vague and empty phrase. This is the problem with the “we believe” approach, which is not critical and adopts contradictory positions just because “we believe” in them.
I will elaborate on this in more detail in my book on theology.
All the best and good luck,
The Maharash writes somewhere that prayer itself is a "natural" effort.
David - A person's prayer breaks down great barriers!
Even in the positive sense, the impact of speech is decisive. Spiritually, a person's speech reaches very far. A Jew's prayer is capable of breaking through the heavens and reaching the throne of honor. Also, thanks to the study of Torah and thanks to the students of Torah – the world exists. Every word they utter in studying Torah brings abundance of blessing and success to the world.
The world and its entirety depend on speech, both for good and for the better. Blessed is the person who uses his speech as a tool to hold a blessing and speaks only positive speech, speech that is neither harmful nor negative, speech that includes the values of kindness, mercy, holiness, and Torah.
Quoted from “Understand” Website in the link
http://www.lehavin.co.il/Index.asp?ArticleID=1913&CategoryID=321&Page=1
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And regarding the taking of the finger and all - this indicates the providence of God, that even if there is a choice, and the person deserves salvation, God will not allow the wicked to harm him. And this is what is written: “For He will give His angels charge over you –to guard you in all your ways”.
Rabbi, what could be the most ”reason”for God ignores us, His followers? If we knew the answer - we would be capable of many things
David, if prayer is a natural effort, then I don't know what isn't nature. And in any case, the term "nature" has lost its meaning, and hence the Maharsha's words are meaningless. After all, if everything is nature, then there is no meaning in saying that something is natural.
Moshe, as I have written here more than once, in my understanding, his "ignorance" may stem from the fact that we are already grown children and must manage our own affairs. Just as a father "ignores" his children after they have grown up (i.e., does not manage their lives for them).
The point is that sometimes the decree is this: if a person prays, he will receive, if not, he will not receive.
So is this decree or nature?
The Ramachal continued his answer by explaining that since the world is endowed with spiritual infinity, the roots of everything that is in the physical are in the spiritual. And there are ways to influence the spiritual roots of reality, and through this the influence will flow into the physical world. And this is the meaning of witchcraft and the influence through the use of the “names” and practical Kabbalah.
And in the “Nefesh Ha-Chaim” it was explained that the regular prayer was founded according to Kabbalah, that the very words cause its content to work in physical reality. And also the specific effect of some of the commandments, for example, blowing the shofar. And Akmal. Surely the Rabbi knows these things.
And the Ramban in several places, that the effect of all the commandments on material reality is in this way
Certainly, those who give praise have reason to add the words of the Ramban at the end of Parashat Ba: "And man has no part in the Torah of Moses, until we believe that all our words and events are miracles, that they have no nature or custom of the world at all. But if he fulfills the commandments, he will succeed in his reward, and if not, he will be punished."
David, I do know everything. But when a question is asked, you should answer it and not quote. You erase the difference between nature and miracle, thereby making the discussion unnecessary. And if you want to say that even Ramban, Ramchal, and Nephew did it - for good health.
I understand the Jewish vision, that even efforts that are in the way of nature must be carried out as a religious mitzvah, and not that there is any intrinsic value in it. Therefore, instead of “delaying one’s efforts”, he must delay, and if he does not, he may be harmed for not fulfilling his mitzvah to fulfill his religious obligation to take care of his property.
And so in our rabbi in my life in Shaar Ha-Bahchon, he suggests fulfilling the mitzvah of caring for one’s wife and children as a religious mitzvah, and not as an investment in them. And if he fulfills it as an investment, he will be punished with disappointment. And so is the reality…
And so is the mitzvah of war, according to the Rambam, to be fulfilled as a religious mitzvah. “And he shall not give his mind to his wife or his children, but to fulfill the mitzvah”. And not as is customary, “war for the homeland”. And then he is assured that he will not be killed in war. Not as is the way of nature.
Indeed, my explanation makes the discussion unnecessary. And the difficulty is primarily in the litah. Indeed, we installed the heroes in the year. Without the “assuming the desired” the text “How did Noah build the ark, if there was a Segi Nehor”
Happy Holidays
The rabbi said that ignoring the ’ stems from our maturity. So what does the rabbi think was the cause of the Holocaust? And where was the warning before the punishment? What was our enormous sin that ”caused” the destruction of 6 million souls?
Basically, what I'm rambling about here is preventing the next Holocaust, even back then we were at the height of prosperity and rich and influential and suddenly, boom, we had a Holocaust as if out of nowhere.
And let's not ignore all the ”small”warnings” that are circulating in the world, a terrorist attack here, a terrorist attack there (abroad), an explosion here, an explosion there, etc.
This sin must be something that the adult knows well, as you described.
In my opinion, regardless of whether you like it or not, preventing the establishment of the Sanhedrin is the next motive/spin for another disaster. Waves (waves) or holocausts.
You remind me of a story I once heard about Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky (it turns out he has a sense of humor). A benefactor who had his car broken into once came to him and asked what he should fix? What sin did he commit? R’ Chaim answered him that he should fix his attitude towards closing the car door. And hey.
And in our case, the cause of the Holocaust was the Nazis' decision to kill Jews. There is no sin or punishment here, and therefore no need for a warning.
As for your explanations, I tend to think that it is more likely that the Holocaust was a punishment for not redeeming a severe tax and not checking for kosher fish. But a righteous person in his faith will live.
You also have quite a sense of humor. But this time it doesn't fit because I'm serious.
On the one hand, you and Mr. Sha'avrech are guilty and could have prevented the break-in, and on the other hand, you say that the Germans wanted to kill Jews, they will die, there's nothing to be done - you decide.
In my opinion, you can't ignore it.
I claim, and many others like me and not like you, that every terrorist attack in the world is a serious signal to us, it's a shame that a Sanhedrin isn't established and disputes are resolved, and it seems that hatred towards us is decreasing. Because when the name of the Lord is called upon us, then the enemies are afraid. And in my opinion, both the righteous and the wicked will live in their faith. And especially the wicked, because perhaps they "live" on the mercy of the wicked.
Thank you. I didn't understand what the two other parties you brought up want. Do you think there is a contradiction between them? What is it? Everyone has a choice, the burglar and the burglarized, the murderer and the murdered. Now what will determine is who is stronger or more capable and the circumstances.
That's exactly what I was aiming for
Every Dalim man
The moment you said “and the circumstances” you completed the entire decision of the scales in my favor because I say as the sages say circumstances will both bring disasters upon us and prevent disasters from us, meaning your actions will bring you closer to his care and your actions will distance you. You saw how the strong change according to the circumstances Hitler was strong and confident in himself but all of that changed during the war as Pharaoh trusted in his strength and his horses and cavalry and it didn't help him so that the cause of the causes determines.
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