General question

So I was right when I told you that I wanted to send you this by email because here you probably feel very threatened and you immediately jump to defend yourself and go wild as if a sensitive nerve was touched. So, honorable enlightened sage, have a glass of water and calm down, you didn't even understand my question. The point wasn't ”what people say about you” The point was that from a purely scientific point of view, you are also considered an exception and somewhat mystical because of your belief in God, which cannot be proven scientifically and empirically in any way.

It seems to me that you probably didn't understand your question either, and certainly not my answer. I usually don't really feel threatened, and certainly not by nonsense like this.

Why doesn't the Rabbi really believe in all these things?
There seems to be no reason to reject their existence, just as there is no reason to accept it.
Isn't the fact that the sages believed in this a sufficient reason? And even if it's not a decisive reason, isn't it a reason to be inclined towards their existence?

You asked the same question in a parallel thread and I have already answered it. I don't think the sages had different tools than we do, and in fact I think we have an advantage over them. Our science is more sophisticated, and for them mysticism was part of the accepted worldview.

Maybe there was a reason that mysticism was part of the accepted worldview.

To say that they were fools and believed in nonsense? That's not serious, and to say that the whole world at that time believed in nonsense? That's even less serious.
I don't understand what the problem is in saying that mysticism does exist, and is diminishing over the generations, that what used to be astrology and witchcraft, today is left with seances and near-death experiences.

Think what you want. If you have an argument, raise it and I will try to address it. I have nothing to do with statements.

This is my claim, that all these things exist, and the evidence is that everyone believed in them.
Therefore, I wrote that I think to dismiss them on the grounds that they were primitive is nonsense.

The rabbi knows the Gemara (I think) which says that as long as a person does not know how many coins he has in his pocket, then the coins can multiply and decrease.
Once he knows, his knowledge closes the door to mystical intervention, research and science have done this on a huge scale.
(I don't understand this but I once read that quantum theory is built on the same foundation – that human observation reduces and limits processes).

The Rabbi?
The Rabbi told me to raise the claim, I would be happy to have his say on it.

I told you to make a claim, not to 'make the claim.' I don't see a claim here, but a statement.

I propose a theory that all the mystical things written in the words of our ancestors do indeed exist, and as a result of the progress of science, these have gradually diminished, as it is written in the Gemara regarding coins in one's pocket, and have eliminated the possibility of mystical interventions.
Then the rabbi's nullification of the words of the sages due to their belief in strange things such as mysticism is null and void.

If the rabbi intended for me to write something else, let him tell me, and so there will be a dialogue, and not just shouting from my side.

First, you also agree that today there are almost no such things. In fact, I did not cancel the sages, but rather said that they had a tendency to believe in such things as their environment thought. You suggest that perhaps in their time it really was. It is possible that the law of gravity has also changed over the years. This is an irrefutable theory. The sages also believed in a flat world in which at night the sun heats the groundwater because it passes under it, so apparently the shape of the world has also changed since then. Who said that the world is not dynamic?

Is there anything like that written about the Earth and the Sun?

yes

The fact that the waters of the abyss are warm was cited by Rabbis as evidence for the view of the sages of the nations that the sun travels from the earth to the earth at night. However, it seems from this that the sages of Israel were willing to learn from the sages of the nations if the observed reality supports their view

With blessings, Artziel Raz ben-Shatach Kaduri

In Jerusalem, idolatry is explained that the world is like a sphere. This fact was known to the sages of the nations at the time of Chazal. I am not aware of any place where Chazal says that the earth is flat.

Shchel,
There is no need to dwell on a specific example, the idea is that they generally accepted in the context of knowledge about the world what the Gentiles thought (as if I remember correctly is also proven from the issue in Pesach and so is what Maimonides writes). So also, if we talk about mysticism that is not directly related to the Torah but is the result of things that are apparently in reality, they will accept what the Gentiles say.

Where is it written?