Good morning, ten two.
Hello Rabbi!
I had a few thoughts that I would be happy if the rabbi could go over in his spare time, but due to the length of the matter, if the rabbi doesn’t have time, then no big deal.
I thought that on the surface, the analytical division the rabbi makes between substantive authority and formal authority is a bit misleading, and I will explain with four examples:
There is a mitzvah to judge fairly. And seemingly incomprehensible, do we have to deceive ourselves? The simple answer is that the mitzvah includes two parts:
A) Stop, and bring up options that present the act in a different light, just as we would be happy for them to do to us. (=seek justice)
b) If there is one, act as if the interpretation is correct (or at least, as if it is perhaps the correct interpretation). Do not respond angrily: “What do you mean you don’t have pillows and blankets?! I worked for you for seven years!” But rather roll up your sleeves and walk away. (= to judge fairly)
It is likely that this will also determine our internal relationship to the other, because usually after actions, hearts are drawn . If we were right – great. And if not? It is better than making a mistake in the other direction.
The same goes for the prohibition of slander. If the Jewish Court declared a person to be wicked, it is permissible to treat him as such. But even the Jewish Court can make mistakes?! (Sanhedrin 33: Horiyot 2.) And then maybe we will just cause injustice to an honest person? But because we are in doubt, we are permitted to act as if it is true.
If all of this is true, one can understand a serious issue in the second page of the fifth chapter. Rabbi Abel disagreed with Abaye and Rava whether or not “it is certain that no one breaks his promise within his time” and the halakha was ruled by Rabbi Abel. And the latter questioned, what is the point of establishing a halakha on a realistic question? (And how did the Gemara try to simplify it from the tenets?)
Indeed, some of the latter (I think their faces light up and more) will argue that the dispute is a matter of presumption – what majority is needed to establish a presumption, and link it to the issue of their feelings for the minority.
But in my opinion, the simple excuse is that there is a doubt here that is very difficult to clarify, given how common it is for a person to break his own rules. Therefore, according to the law, the BID acts as if this is truly very rare, since accepting the Talmud includes accepting that we should act (as long as we do not know otherwise) as if the Rabbis were right.
In other words, in situations of doubt, although on a philosophical level the Sages do not (and as the Rabbi says, “cannot”) have authority in matters of fact, from a practical point of view they do.
This whole process leads us to the issue of “Tev Lemitev Ten Do.” Clearly, this assumption was made based on observation. It is difficult to assume that Ral would have said it without knowing any women. But here we have two possibilities:
1) This is a psychological-behavioral diagnosis that is quite powerful for its time and place.
2) Perhaps the Sages also learned this from the Bible itself – as Rabbi Soloveitchik believes (“Adam and His House,” page 130, and also a bit at the end of the article “Marriage.” In “This Is Sinai,” it is a bit too concise…) – and they linked this distinction to the verse “And your desire shall be for your husband,” and to the ontological difference between man and woman that is reflected in the story of creation, from Kabbalah, and from other places in Halacha.
According to the second approach, if one day gender science becomes as precise as natural science and it turns out that there are no innate mental differences between men and women (except for linguistic skills – in which women have a statistical advantage), then we can say that the sages were probably wrong in assuming that this is an ontological difference, and also in their interpretation of the Bible. But as long as we are in doubt, we act as if the sages were right.
Again I thought it all depends on what a person is.
The rabbi is a doctor of physics with knowledge in extensive fields and also knows the Torah straight and upside down, so many things are clear to him.
If someone comes and claims that he knows almost nothing about reality-as-it-is, but only about the way-he-perceives-it; but he has taken upon himself the Talmud (as he perceives it), and therefore even if the rabbi says that the right is the left, he acts as if she is right – then we probably won’t be able to convince him otherwise, but at most help him discover that he himself doesn’t believe it.
And most of us are somewhere in between. “God said to dwell in the mist” – as the Hasidim say, in this world that resembles a mist. We devote ourselves to our beloved and do not ask ourselves whether she exists, we honor our parents and do not wonder if we were switched at birth. But there are many things we do not know – is there or is not a guardian of the naked? Who is right, the kashrut bodies that do not grant kosher to wraps on Passover even to those who eat legumes (because wheat always gets mixed in along the way), or the kashruts that allow even those who abstain from legumes (because the means of choice are good enough)? Is the poor person who asks me for charity a fraud, and should I donate only to “Bells” or “The Rabbinical Committee for Charity Affairs”? Etc., etc.
Note: Throughout the discussion, I ignored the possibility that the Chazal have substantial authority in assessing reality on the part of “the secret of the Lord to those who fear Him and His covenant to make known to them” (Sotah 4), because I assume that the Rabbi himself disagrees with this factual determination, and Rabbi Soloveitchik himself (to the best of my knowledge) does not use this argument.
I would be very happy to know whether the Rabbi agrees with some of the things.
All the best and thank you.
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Wow, how fast.
I assume the rabbi read Adam and Eve? To my understanding, the whole article there is a bit meaningless if it is just “to answer the species”…
Would the rabbi be willing to explain a little more about the Gemara in B”? If the Sages do not discuss which assumption is correct and which is not, what is the subject of the issue there?
I am familiar with the rabbi's article on considering merit. I did not mean that a narrow explanation should be adopted, but that when there are two equivalent explanations (as the rabbi suggests) we should act as if the lenient interpretation is correct. Otherwise, what is the meaning of considering merit? The equivalent explanations exist in any case. Only “to seek merit”? (The rabbi's answer will probably be: yes)
I haven't read it. In any case, it doesn't really matter to me what he thought. In my opinion, such a claim is unfounded, and since he is a very intelligent person, it is difficult for me to assume that he believes it. But even if he did, it doesn't really matter.
The subject of the issue there is the fundamental question: given a presumption, whether it is possible to spend money on it or not (because in principle, only on the basis of two witnesses will a thing be established). Even if the issue does this by discussing a particular presumption, the factual determination (whether a person defaults within the time limit or not) has no fundamental importance. This can change. What does not change is the determination that a presumption spends money. This is the Torah in this issue, the rest are facts.
Incidentally, this is also implied by the continuation of the issue, which deals in general with the prohibition against presumption, and there it is certainly formulated as a question of principle and generality and not a question of fact (whether there is a presumption or not), and it deals with every presumption and not necessarily with this specific presumption.
I didn't understand the last part. When there are two possible explanations, we must assume the more lenient one, but not as a fact but only from a consideration of the burden of proof (to leave the person presumed kosher). Such a presumption is not an inquiry but a “legal” consideration (or value, in this case).
Thank you very much.
I'm glad we agree on the last point. 🙂
Regarding the issue of the Bible, the rabbi wants to say that Rabbi and Abaye disagreed on whether we spend money on a whim? That's a really interesting direction. Thanks
And would it occur to you that there is a debate about the fact that a person does not tend to repay within time? Is there anyone among them who denies this reality? And on the other hand, is there anyone who denies the fact that sometimes a person does repay within time (when you cheat on her)? Therefore, it is clear that the question is whether such a consideration (= presumption), which of course has exceptions (which everyone agrees on as well), is strong enough to take money out of a trust. It is difficult for me to see any other interpretation of the issue.
As such, we found a disagreement between Rav and Shmuel about whether money is spent by the majority, and according to the law it is as clear as Shmuel that one does not follow the majority in money (although of course there have been many interpretations of this, and so on).
If the debate was only on the factual level, then from my point of view it was simply abrogation of the Torah. Why would I be interested in the reality of their time?! To the same extent you could learn what pants they wore back then and what they used to eat. This is a matter for historians, not Torah scholars.
This is a really nice explanation.
And a question from Katanta for the sake of completeness: Does the rabbi agree that there are different assumptions, some of which are stronger than others (halachically)?
In other words, is it really absurd to say that the Amoraim disagreed about this specific assumption, whether to spend money on it, that is, whether to put it in the category of “strong” or “weak” assumptions?
And we decide legally (because the reality is really not well defined, let alone considering the possibility that Dilemma is cheating on Lia Zuzi, but something needs to be decided) that it is “strong”?
They may disagree about how strong this assumption is, but again, that's not a disagreement in reality. The disagreement is that they disagree about what the general criterion for assumptions is, that is, how good they have to be for us to spend money on them.
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