Haredi
Hello, Your Honor.
I saw a letter published on the site here 6 years ago that someone wrote a response to and brought up from the depths of the past. In the letter you complain about the intellectual closure practiced in the Haredi public, and on the other hand I saw responses that advocate the same type of intellectual closure and hegemony. I responded in the above thread. And I copied it here to flood the topic.
I would like to know the Rabbi’s opinion on this issue of restricting the possibilities of getting drunk in the Haredi community for the reasons mentioned here.
As always, the best way seems to be the middle path.
Rabbi Michi is certainly right about the current situation among the Haredi community. As a Haredi, I can say that every point the Rabbi raised regarding the Haredi community is correct and accurate, the leadership in this community does indeed encourage ignorance and disdain for everything that is not Torah. Which of course leads to enormous ignorance to the point that young men in the yeshiva where I studied (Hebron) in their twenties do not know that the sun revolves around the earth, do not know how to multiply a two-digit number by another without needing a calculator, and of course they do not (some of them of course) do not know the letters A-B-C.
The interest is ultimately twofold. Both preventing independent thinking that could question and cast doubt, and also… preserving the public’s dire economic situation!!!
Yes, yes, a low socioeconomic status requires leaning on and receiving support from other parts of the public, and thus further anchors the supported person in that rut that denies criticism and any expression of healthy skepticism.
This situation allows those who are economically or socially well-off to do whatever they want, and any criticism of them will be considered an insult to the Torah of some rabbi who supports them politically, and will be accused of blasphemy. While they (I mean the heads of certain kollels, heads of yeshivahs, and certain public figures) often hurt others emotionally and financially without any justification, and all this in the name of “Torah wisdom.”
But on the other hand, completely exposing children to a variety of opinions and ideas does indeed often lead to leaving religion. (In the boxed article – Rabbi Michi’s way, which was founded on logical and consistent thinking, is not heresy in any way. And anyone who claims this is simply not prepared in advance to accept the possibility that he is right. It is impossible for God, the Holy One, to demand that we not investigate and ask, since in this way Judaism has no priority over any other view or religion.) What should be done in any case (and this is what Rabbi Michi seems to have intended) is to give full legitimacy at the public level to those who have questions, and to be willing to discuss them and not dismiss them outright with opaque arguments of heresy and heresy.
On the other hand, there is no need to introduce ideas and ideological methods into the educational ‘sphere’. (The same cannot be said about secular studies, which need to be introduced and pushed).
On a personal note, I must mention the blessed work of Rabbi Michi, in establishing this website and his willingness to discuss everything.
The site has helped me personally a lot. And since I am Haredi, I have no way of discussing with my friends and acquaintances issues of faith, Torah, science, and more. Both because it is rare to find a Haredi who is sufficiently educated, and because of a real fear of overall social rejection. (Not accepting children into institutions, being kicked out of the kollel, being labeled as an infidel, and so on and so forth.)
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The question is, does the rabbi also think that the reason the Haredi public does not study a profession, and is denied the option of a respectable livelihood, is not because of the important value of preserving the Torah, or any other consideration that was valid (perhaps) at the time of the establishment of the yeshiva world in its current form, but rather because of considerations of political control alone?
Or am I completely wrong?
It's a bit complicated in my opinion.
Clearly, there is a desire to control and close people down in the background, but it also comes from reasons of the Haredi perception and not just from considerations of arbitrary power and interest. The Haredi ideology understands that people have an instinct to open up and that it is important to close people down and not give them that. If you don't restrict them, they will open up to you (which is of course factually true). In short, it is not just power and interest but also a true ideology.
Beyond that, it is clear that there is inertia of hindsight that becomes a habit. This happens a lot (according to Shtreimel). Therefore, even when something started in a time of distress, there is a tendency to perpetuate it even when the situation changes. As is known, new things are forbidden by the Torah.
I would be happy if someone could demonstrate and explain what is meant by “new forbidden from the Torah”.
Rabbi, is this the right way to buy off Haredi by not giving them the tools that are given to ordinary Jews? Do you think this has anything to do with the saying, "Wisdom to the Gentiles - believe, Torah to the Gentiles - do not believe."
Originally it was a prohibition on new grain. In paraphrase, the Hatam Sofer uses it to reject changes and updates in halakhah. It is used to reject a change that is in principle possible, only for fear of reforms, etc. I gave an example of this here.
I don't think so. But I'm not Haredi. The question of wisdom among the Gentiles is not related to this, since the discussion is not about whether science or any other field of knowledge is right or wrong.
By the way, life, the Earth orbits the Sun, not the other way around.
What is your definition of Haredi? And how do you define yourself?
Are you talking about your example of Shteimel?
In the Rabbi's opinion, does it make sense for the law to have the power to uproot the Torah and in another situation, could the law, for example, consider rejecting changes and updates to the law?
In the Rabbi's opinion, is there a place for the law to determine what clothing to wear and what color, etc.? Assuming it is not shatz?
Aharon, in my opinion there is no truth or falsehood here. It depends on where you put the beginning of the axes (I wrote this in a post somewhere).
Moshe, it’s hard for me to answer this briefly. Haredi has two meanings: opposite to Zionism and opposite to modernity. I am both.
I don’t think anyone thinks that the Shtreimel is a halakhic statement.
I didn’t understand the question of whether halakhic law has the power to uproot the Torah.
So what is its contrast to Zionism and how is its contrast to modernity expressed?
You wrote that you already gave an example of nothing new from the Torah - I did not find one.
If we found the halakhic power to uproot the Torah, why does the Hatam Sofer have a problem rejecting changes and updates in halakhic law?
Is the prohibition on new grain time-dependent?
Opposes new values and engagement in new and external areas of the Torah.
The example I gave regarding going to work.
As I wrote, the principle of new things forbidden from the Torah is applied where halachically it is possible to change. Otherwise, you don't need the Hatam Sofer for this. New things forbidden from the Torah does not mean that it is not permitted to choose on Shabbat or eat pork.
During the time of the New Temple, it was forbidden until the Omer was brought in (Yom Hinaf).
Does the Rabbi mean that he is a Zionist, in the same definition of the Zionist organization, also founded by many secularists with the intention of coming and becoming a new, secular national Jew, or does the Rabbi mean that he is a Zionist that he encourages people to live in the land, if so, many Haredim also encourage.
If, as in the first case, does the Rabbi say Hillel and celebrate Independence Day?
Thanks in advance.
Mainly the second. Although I also support the revival of Judaism, as is known.
There is a difference between living in Israel (which Neturi Karta also does) and establishing a state.
There are many Haredim and religious Zionists who believe as I do, but there is no political-social expression for this. The third way. I have written about it more than once.
I definitely think that Hallel should be said. Regarding the celebration, it is a national holiday, not a religious one. Each person has their own feelings.
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