Haredi “Torah” as opposed to conventional wisdom
Hello,
Following the strange behavior (Corona, etc.) of the owners of the “Daat Torah” franchises among the Haredim, can the Rabbi explain why the above “Daat Torah” is the opposite in 100% of cases from regular “Daat”, does regular “Daat” always contradict “Daat Torah”, and also, if I decide to act contrary to my true opinion, will I definitely be directed to “Daat Torah”?
Greetings, Benjamin, the mindless, Gorlin
Benjamin Shalom. The source of the phrase “Makhtem Da’at” is “Hifach Da’at Torah” in the Samaritan Bible, 3rd century. The story is well-known about the Rabbi of Brisk who asked Sheinfeld how he always manages to get the knowledge of Torah right, and he replied that he asks people on the street and they say the opposite. But it is clear that this is a proverb and should not be taken too seriously. The meaning is that the common sense of the Baal-Bat (which is not a derogatory term. It refers to true common sense) does not always get the knowledge of Torah right.
Rabbi Michi, to the extent that there is a reality of “Daat Torah”, can we please define its essence, its scope, etc. It is clear that we are talking about a halakhic ruling, since those who claim to possess “Daat Torah” do not rely on objective reality but rather on their state of mind and gut feelings, and hence the results of their “common sense” depend on the imaginary reality in which they live?
There are articles by Benny Brown on the subject, and I recommend that you read them. As a rule, in halakhic rulings there is an element of sources and interpretation. The interpretation depends on the insights and reasoning of the posak. You call it a state of mind and gut feelings, expressions with poor connotations. I refer to it as intuitions and reasoning, which are part of the ruling. If you want to call these Da'at Torah – for my life.
In ”Daat Torah” is a component of sources included???
What sources are included in ”Daat Torah” of “Gadoil HaDair” in everything related to the continued activity of the Haredi yeshivas?
Benjamin, please read what I am writing. I explained that in halakhic rulings there are two components: sources and their interpretation. The sources are the objective part, but the interpretation is partly carved out of the explanations and insights of the ruling sage. The second part, the interpretation, is somewhat subjective, and you can, if you really want to, call it Da'at Torah. It of course exists, but how to call it is not an important question.
It is needless to point out that the teaching of the two rabbis in question (which I oppose, as stated) also has sources. Therefore, your resolute bewilderment indicates (again) bias.
Benjamin, do you accept the concept of "Torah knowledge" of any (non-"Haredi") scholar, or do you reject the concept altogether?
Good evening Moshe, I completely reject the term “Daat Torah”, if only because it is not based on objective sources but only on the interpretation of an imaginary event, contrary to the halachic ruling in which I of course accept Rabbi Michai’s definition as above.
To the best of my understanding, Rabbi Michai mistakenly interprets the term “Daat Torah” as an interpretation of objective sources, when it is clear to all Haredi (and not only) that the intention is a state of mind and gut feelings and nothing more.
Benjamin, if this really interests you, you are welcome to read Benny Brown's articles, where he shows you are wrong. The Haredim themselves (at least their rabbis) do not perceive Torah thought in this way.
Are these articles available for free online?
What are they called?
The rabbi means "towards democratization in Haredi leadership? The doctrine of Da'at Torah at the turn of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries"? Professor Brown defines "Da'at Torah" as political theology and I absolutely agree with him. My argument is that this is one of the visible dimensions, but there is another dimension, hidden in the tools, and it is the dimension of the eloquence, which is the main and foundation of the whole building, similar to the dimension of the eloquence in the Catholic religion, the twin sister of Harediism, hence the "Gadwill of the Ha-Dair" enjoy a special status similar to the Pope.
I don't know. Look up Benjamin Brown, Da'at Torah. If not, maybe you can contact him at the Hebrew University and he will send it to you.
He is talking about the area where the doctrine of God is wrong. His claim is that it is not in the areas of life outside of the law.
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