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In a confrontation with Yaron Yadan

שו”תCategory: faithIn a confrontation with Yaron Yadan
asked 2 months ago

In that debate, you laid out the innovative and brilliant definition against Yaron Yadan, who was unable to unravel it except to mutter under his breath that it was not the common approach he knew, and that is when opposing values ​​harm each other, for example a moral value versus a halakhic value, who to prefer? Sometimes it prevails and sometimes it prevails, as in any system of values ​​when there are two values ​​that conflict with each other. As an example of this, you cited a French soldier who had a dilemma between the value of honor versus the value of continuing to fight that had to be decided, and therefore Yaron cannot wave a certain mitzvah that goes against human morality, etc. First of all, I must say that I really enjoyed it (look how long I remember it, I didn’t see the debate today, and it is possible that you, as the owner of the mimra, managed to forget some details and I am here to refresh your memory). And if we enter the world of images, then like in football teams, I wanted you to be the player who represents me, to win, even in a knockout, and there is some spice to this from the point of view of Philosophically and psychologically, however, now that the cannons have fallen silent, it is time to refine the matter a bit (there are similar stories in the Gemara in which one of the Tan’im argued with a Sadducee and answered him what he answered, and his students later told him that it was good for the Sadducees as a kind of rejection of straw, but what is the real answer for us? I know that for you it is not rejection of straw but a real claim, but I need refinement in order to understand it properly) and my question is do you have an example of a moral value that conflicts with a halakhic value, in which your moral value would prevail? What is being put forward behind the scenes of my question is that there really is no such animal, because as soon as there is a halakhic value, the meaning of a thing is that thus the Creator commands you to act in practice, and there is no possibility of evading it by arguing that it is immoral, even if He commands you to take your only son whom you love, etc., which is a strong frontal clash between halakhic and moral, and the example that arose there between you (I am still writing from memory and I do not have a memory In general, this gives you an indication of how much something we enjoy is kept in memory, and you did well to go to the confrontation (it concerns the commandment of a woman of good character). This is not a good example of the aforementioned dilemma of a conflict between halakhah and morality, because there is no practical command from the Torah to rape the enemy’s women in war, but rather, the Sages said, “The Torah spoke only against the evil inclination, and the Torah also prefers that you not act this way if you can overcome your inclination, so it is impossible to bring from this evidence of how the moral value prevails over the halakhic value, because the halakhic here is also only a permission (and also in retrospect due to mental difficulty) and not a halakhic instruction as a command. I am looking for an example of a halakhic instruction as a command of the Creator against a practical moral value that would tell me here that the moral value prevails. All we know is the opposite, that the halakhic value prevails, for example, in my opinion, every circumcision is a halakhic instruction as a command that conflicts with the moral value of abusing the child. Defenseless, and there is no one who does not fulfill this commandment

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מיכי Staff answered 2 months ago

All the examples of a sin for its own sake, such as Yael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, or Lot’s daughters. Desecrating the Sabbath for saving the life of a Gentile, some would say is such (in my opinion, there is no prohibition at all, and according to others, there is a prohibition even today if it were not for the ways of peace).
The prohibition “You shall not be deceived” against reading heretical books is perhaps also an example. Even if there were such a prohibition, I would not accept it.
Rulings that oppose invalid witnesses in secular marriages, or the institutionalization of prostitution, are also this type of instruction. Cold halakhic consideration says to do so, and morality or meta-halakhic says not to.
But it is clear that these cases are rare, as there must be a serious moral problem here and clear halakhah against it. In particular, I distinguished between a structured conflict and an accidental conflict. See my lessons on halakhah and morality.

מיכי Staff replied 2 months ago

See also Baturi on the Fastenish, in particular the prohibition of courts regarding courts in Israel.

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