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intercession

שו”תCategory: philosophyintercession
asked 4 years ago

What is the part of man and the part of God in man’s life? In other words, what is the limit of effort? When do I know that I have already done everything to succeed and now it depends on God’s decision? When do effort and faith meet? Perhaps you have already written about this, if so, thank you for guiding me.


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מיכי Staff answered 4 years ago
I have written about this extensively. The effort part is 100%. What you do is what will happen. Nothing depends on God. Read the second book in the trilogy, and a lot here on the site (search for divine involvement in the world).

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אהוד replied 4 years ago

Miki's arguments that there is no divine intervention are not serious.
But it is also impossible to know when the Almighty will intervene for me.
So the point is to make an effort*, but at the same time be in a mental position that ultimately the Great King will determine (unless he has abandoned you to the laws of nature).

*This effort means, for example, going to see an orthopedist when your back or knee hurts, but on the other hand, it is recommended not to “go crazy” and run to get 4 different medical opinions, and also pay a lot of money to a private specialist.
This actually shows a lack of confidence in yourself. There is a certain place where you need to know how to let go.

I highly recommend that you not read Miki's books, it is a waste of your time. Pure boredom.

EA replied 4 years ago

Ehud, you give a definition of effort with a parable, don't you have a more precise, serious definition perhaps? Thanks for the recommendation, I'll read them and tell you whether you were wrong or not.

ע.ק. replied 4 years ago

If you are looking for an approach that is closer to the Rabbi but not quite,
Then if I am not mistaken there is a method that I saw in the book Heshon Neffes (but recently I skimmed through it again and did not find it inside), that a person should trust his mind and do what is right and that is the effort, as if to trust his thought. And I assume the intention is not in vain or disdainful.
The wonder consultant mentions that a person should strive to overcome the law of doubt that he is subject to nature. Look, for example, at the level of medicine and then you can be precise about livelihood, although towards the end there is some contradiction.

Hozcemza, I have something that I think can be taken from the book of Ezra that I have never seen brought up, but no one to this day has really addressed my words when I presented it to people, and most of them did not understand or did not look. Or I am wrong but they did not say that either…
And this is his simple statement, after he began his journey to the land, we see that he also got involved in explaining the relationship between effort and security and providence:
” (21) And I proclaimed a fast there by the river Ahavah, that we might afflict ourselves before our God, to seek of him a right way for us, and for our children, and for all our merchandise. (22) For I was ashamed to ask of the king an army and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way: for we spake unto the king, saying, The hand of our God is upon all them that seek him for good, and his strength and his power upon all them that seek him. All his people left him. (23) And we were troubled and asked our God for this, and he granted us.

This means that he did see fit to ask for a force and horsemen, but for a theological and explanatory reason he refrained. On the other hand, as a result of this he prayed and was answered.
So that it is as if he is a type of reliance (through prayer) on the Blessed One in times of distress. But initially one needs to make an effort, only if it is impossible then one prays and trusts in providence, etc. And perhaps it can be explained in other ways.

אהוד replied 4 years ago

EA,
I don't really have a definition for effort, and there are things that I think shouldn't be defined, but simply lived.
If you're still looking for a definition, for “effort”, then in my opinion it's simply – “knowing when to let go”.
I'll give examples of how this manifests itself in the real world:

A. If you're going to a job interview, don't think you have to dress perfectly, or know how to answer questions perfectly, etc.
B. If you're dating someone, don't try to impress them too much.
C. Don't flatter.

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