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Is it allowed…

שו”תIs it allowed…
asked 8 months ago

Hello Rabbi!
I bought a product and it was defective. I went to the store to return the product and because I didn’t have a receipt, they wouldn’t replace the product for me.
Am I allowed to exchange the product without the store owner’s knowledge?
In short: Am I allowed to steal from someone who is older than me?


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0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 8 months ago

In my opinion, in principle, yes. Although if you put it on the shelf, you may harm another buyer who takes it. If you have a way to make sure that this doesn’t happen, then I think it’s permissible. Note that simply taking another product and throwing away yours is problematic, because the store owner usually takes advantage of defective products. Furthermore, the manufacturer may replace it for you without the need for a receipt, because from his perspective it doesn’t matter who you bought it from.


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אלי replied 8 months ago

I really don't understand
Who said the store owner committed “robbery”? Who said he was wrong?
There is a famous condition that in order to exchange a product you need a receipt. If you don't have a receipt, he is not obligated to exchange.
Did I miss something?

מיכי Staff replied 8 months ago

He must replace it because he sold defective goods and this is a mistake. Just because you don't have evidence to convince him, doesn't mean he doesn't have to replace it. Of course, he can't believe you, but if you know the truth, then a person is in charge of himself.

אלי replied 8 months ago

Why should the buyer worry about someone else buying the product?
The product was on the shelf and he was unlucky enough to take it, should he now worry more than the homeowner who put the product on the shelf?

אביב replied 8 months ago

Why doesn't Dina Demalkota Dina play a role here?

מיכי Staff replied 8 months ago

Because the law of the kingdom does not exempt him, but only does not obligate him due to the laws of evidence.

יהודה replied 8 months ago

As far as I remember, "Abid is not a judge for his own life" is only in a way that he can prove his claims in court, am I wrong?

mikyab123 replied 8 months ago

This should be expanded upon. Simply put, it is indeed permissible only when he has evidence. But it should be divided. The Grac writes that the seller can do so even when he does not have evidence. And apparently this is because there is no fear that he will make a mistake. According to the law, when there is no fear of a mistake, it is possible. Beyond that, here it seems that he did not buy what he has in his hand at all, since this is a mistake in buying. So the seller owes him an object that was paid for. In order to save his property from a Pishita damage, he is permitted to act even without evidence (Koch comes in the underground). What's more, the seller has no loss, since he is claiming compensation from the manufacturer, and the manufacturer must certainly replace it, and there is no need for evidence for him. What's more, the evidence needed here is evidence for the court, not the court.
The basic explanation for all this is that it does not seem possible to speak here of a prohibition that he violated, since he took what was his. So there is certainly no theft here. If so, what did he do wrong? Therefore, it seems more likely that the entire prohibition against making one's own judgment is nothing more than an obligation on the judge not to legalize the act, and not a prohibition on the doer himself.
Much more needs to be said on this vague matter, and so on.

שמואל חיים פלג replied 8 months ago

But when you purchase a product, there is usually a store policy that says that in the event of a defect or malfunction, a receipt is required, both to verify that the product was indeed purchased at this store and not at another store and also to check the date of purchase because most warranties are limited to a certain time, such as a year.
In addition to this, the Consumer Protection Law also says that you must come with a receipt. Is there still a chance that the product can be replaced without the store owner's knowledge?

מיכי Staff replied 8 months ago

The store's policy is irrelevant. It's like they have a policy of stealing or not compensating for damage or not returning fraud. I didn't get what I bought from them.

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