Jew and Gentile

Thank you.

Can you explain to me more about what the greatest virtue of being Jewish is? Where did you get the idea that there is such a virtue? And why is it ultimately worth it (i.e., isn't it better to live without so many prohibitions, and give up the ’virtue’)?

Shlomo, definitely better, a Jew is similar to me as a person born with a “disability”…

Doing the commandments of your Creator is a great virtue. Being equipped with the Torah that gives you a framework and perspective within which you relate to life is a virtue. It is not a question of whether it is worthwhile or not. But of course, there is no arguing about taste and smell.

To do the will of your Creator – is a virtue. I agree. But the question is why is there a virtue in a person not being satisfied with the will of the Creator from the Gentile.

That is, there is some assumption here that the Gentile is the minimum, and the Jew is the maximum. Then there is some virtue in moving up to the Gentile, but is this assumption justified? I don't know. It is possible to see this as completely different requirements, which cannot be scaled upwards – Could you then explain this further?

Likewise, “being equipped with the Torah that gives you a framework and perspective within which you relate to life is a virtue” -even if that is true, I don't understand why one has to be Jewish for that? And a Gentile cannot examine the world from a Torah perspective (and simply will not bind himself to the various prohibitions)?

Sorry to bother…

To conduct oneself according to the Torah is, for me, to be Jewish. Whether one undergoes formal conversion or not is a technical question. Technically, it is unlikely that someone would conduct themselves this way without conversion.

Okay, I understand. Thank you.

And what about the first question? Why assume there is any interest in committing to a multitude of commandments? Who said the Creator is interested in that?

I didn't say the Creator is interested. In my opinion, this is a fuller, richer life.

You wrote: ‘To do the commandments of your Creator’ So how exactly did you not say that?

“A whole life and twenty” is this a value? If so – then the Creator is interested in it (perhaps not obligatory), and again, where is this assumption drawn from?. And if not – then it is just a pure desire, why is it worthy of a certain appreciation?

They asked me if I would convert and I said I think so. That's all. As far as I'm concerned, this strange debate is over.

No no. This is not a strange discussion, you are just avoiding answering.

For a change, I agree with A.

After all this thread, I don't understand whether you see any value in converting? Let's say you find that you are a Gentile, and you have the ability to continue studying Torah and teaching at Bar-Ilan, etc., with your family, and in short, everything remains the same, and no one knows about it - why convert? What is the value in it? And does God expect it of me? Maybe I'm annoying, but I'm really asking a simple question. I didn't understand anything clear from the thread here. Sorry, and I'd appreciate an answer.

I said I would convert because I don't think it's possible to live a full life of study and halakhah without being committed. It's not an academic pursuit but rather a pursuit of what should guide me in my life.

Now I understand, great. So we can conclude that it is a purely technical device to uphold the value of a "full life of study". After all, if you do not convert, you will not be obligated to follow the halakhah, and you did not explain why you should commit to it, but rather, the halakhic study itself has value, as stated.

This is really disgusting to me. If you ask why I do X, you probably expect an answer in terms of Y: I do X to achieve Y. So from your very question it follows that the answer will be instrumental. In short, this discussion is delusional, as I wrote. If it is a fundamental principle, then it has no explanation, and if it is not fundamental (it can be placed on a more fundamental principle) then it turns out to be instrumental. So how do you expect me to explain the halakhic obligation itself?!
In short, I'm done.

Company
You are missing an important point here
There is a dispute as to whether a Gentile is allowed to study Torah or not, and according to most systems, certainly those who adhere to the simple are forbidden to study Torah and keep the commandments, but only to engage in the 7 commandments of the sons of Noah? And what would he engage in all day as a person who is obliged to halakha and study Torah and sees it mainly as Judaism? In endless digressions in the laws of theft? In endless digressions in the laws of theft?
In short, it is not that practical
A person who is already completely discouraged from keeping the commandments and studying halakha and does it with great difficulty. It is possible that he would die to be revealed as a Gentile and be obliged only to 7 basic prohibitions without any binding content. But why would a person who is Halakha and fears heaven want this?

Who obligates you to the ’halakhic obligation’?

Let's get it straight.

First, let's put the question in its proper context: Is there value in converting? That is, is there value in being Jewish? There is no psychological question here about this or that person, or even whether it is ultimately worth being Jewish along with all the various duties. This is just a pure question.

Onwards. The answers given: Yes.

And for two reasons: a) There is value in studying Torah. That is, in studying real life (and not a meaningless academic form) it is actually value to conduct life in light of Torahic glasses. b) There is value in keeping mitzvot. A person who does the will of his Creator has value.

In my opinion, the first answer is excellent. I don't expect any further explanation. As far as I'm concerned, it really is a fundamental principle. There is a Torah of the Creator, and a person who conducts himself in its light is value.

But, why convert? That is, it may be a technical step. Indeed, it is unlikely that a person would walk around the world and conduct themselves in the light of Torah glasses without committing themselves to them. Okay, then this is really conversion, and in fact the entire obligation, is technical for the value of “conducting life in the light of Torah”.

But from answer b’ another reasoning emerges. There is an interest in the obligation itself (i.e., in not eating pork) – Why? Here I really don't understand. The Creator, for some reason, wants there to be a group that will not eat pork. And that really has value. That is, if I were born Jewish, there is certainly value in keeping the Creator's commandments. But I am a Gentile, He didn't tell me that He expects this of me, to come and commit for nothing? Why? I really didn't understand that.

Rational,
Come on really? Your answer is really technical. So let's establish according to the methods that a Gentile can study Torah… and after all, this is basically a pure question to clarify the value only, as stated.

There is value in belonging to an elite group that keeps more commandments and improves more things (in the world or here). What is not clear here? Just because I don't know what the benefit is in this doesn't mean there is no benefit here.

Dear H. Why is my answer technical?
It is not known exactly what Gentiles are allowed to do in practice beyond the obligations and prohibitions that reason requires them to do.
And it is not so simple to skip this controversy and rely on the two-three or one-severe system that Gentiles are allowed to study Torah and do almost all the commandments (and indeed I heard in the name of Magen Avraham that a Gentile can accept almost all the positive commandments before a court. Apart from the commandments in which you declare that you are part of the Jewish people, apparently. Then he is not at all a Gentile who is forbidden to observe, but rather enters the new category of a resident alien who has taken on the burden of commandments, and this is all speculation and individual opinion).

And because it doesn't say in the post here that God expects all to convert or that everyone should convert. And it seems to me that Smiki didn't hint at this. Rather, he said that he would convert if it were revealed that he was a Gentile. Because he prefers to be in a higher position in the service of God. Like Madmoni, he didn't write that he would expect everyone to act this way.

‘Just because I don't know what the benefit is in this doesn't mean there's no benefit.’ In other words: blind faith? And you still haven't answered who obligates you with the ’halakhic obligation’?