New on the site: Michi-bot. An intelligent assistant based on the writings of Rabbi Michael Avraham.

Life versus economics. Da’at Torah.

שו”תCategory: HalachaLife versus economics. Da’at Torah.
asked 6 years ago

What is the Rabbi’s opinion on the matter?
Is there justification for preventing the “collapse of the economy” at the expense of the life of one Jew?
And with this, how many thousands of Jews will be saved at the expense of the collapse of the economy?
And when it comes to old people?
And what if it’s a lonely old man who knows he has one month left to live? What if 5 years? What if 50 years?
What is the price according to Torah law that is permissible to pay in “life law” in order to save in “money law”?
And if there is no such price, does it follow that the decision-makers are criminals according to law (Torah, or civil law) and should go to prison? After all, they allowed the spread of the virus and the death in the pandemic. When everything was predictable in advance. In order not to collapse the economy.
 


Discover more from הרב מיכאל אברהם

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

Leave a Reply

0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 6 years ago
Absolutely yes. First, because the collapse of the economy has critical consequences for human life. But even beyond that, a normal life in society justifies risking life. King David instructs those who ask, “Go out and stretch out your hands in the battalion.” And so it is with the war of authority to expand the king’s domain without there being any real risk to life. I wrote about this from a certain angle in my article on “You shall not dwell” (see there on public needs as protection of life): https://mikyab.net/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9E%D7%91%D7%98-%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%A3-%D7%A 2%D7%9C-%D7%97%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%99%D7%97%D7%99%D7%93-%D7% 91%D7%AA%D7%A4%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%93-%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%99 There is no sharp line here, but the principle is correct and is accepted by everyone I know, religious or secular. I don’t know anyone who forbids driving on the road, even though hundreds die in accidents every year. And many more examples.

Discover more from הרב מיכאל אברהם

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

הפוסק האחרון replied 6 years ago

There are 2 very big differences between death from an accident and death from an epidemic.
1. In an accident, death results from negligence. And every person chooses to take the risk and be careful if necessary. (And a drunk person who endangers others is not allowed to drive a car because then he is a criminal). In an epidemic, death is certain for a certain percentage of the people who are infected. And a person who goes out during an epidemic is similar to someone who drives drunk and endangers others.
2. In an accident, death is local, only those involved in the accident are injured. In an epidemic, one person can spread the virus to the entire country and then everyone dies. Therefore, treating an epidemic requires mutual guarantee, otherwise the epidemic will continue to spread. It is enough for one percent to break the rules and the epidemic will not stop.

And it seems that the “and you will not live for anyone” follows that there is no need to be afraid of all those scaremongers regarding the disaster expected from the “collapse of the economy”. The economy collapses? So we start over. Changing the rules of the economy.
And we can add that the economy is based on the laws and usury, which are explicitly forbidden in the Torah.
And in general, even from the Torah's perspective, the economy is restarted every 50 years.
So, apparently, an economy collapsing is a normal situation and not as wrong as it seems. It's just that it can be frightening, especially for those who have a lot of capital.

And you still haven't answered what the price of the law of life is compared to the law of property. How much is one person's life worth. How is it priced?

In the Torah, there is a prohibition: "You shall not murder." There is no prohibition: "You shall not destroy the economy of the country."

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

The differences are irrelevant. You asked if there is a price for a human life, and I showed you that there is.
I answered you that there is a price and that I do not have a single criterion. Like a hundred thousand other things that do not have a single criterion.
Why did he call me Sabra?

הפוסק האחרון replied 6 years ago

You really confused me, the difference between the collapse of a single business and the collapse of a country's economy is important, but the difference between an accident involving a few people and the destruction of the entire nation because of someone spreading the virus is not important?

If they told a rabbi that he had to kill himself for the growth of the economy, would many agree?
So if the economy is so important, maybe we should send all the old people to hell to benefit it. Where is the line?
If it's a half-collapse, then you can kill? How did a rabbi come to rule on this, based on the advice of an economist with vested interests?

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

You managed to confuse me, what confuses you here?
I'll answer again: There is a price for human life. Period. I don't have a clear line to determine what it is. Therefore, each situation must be considered on its own merits, how many human lives versus how much economic damage and to whom.
From this, it is worth not getting carried away. No nation is destroyed because of the virus. But that's just a side note.

הפוסק האחרון replied 6 years ago

So I will summarize your answer according to my limited understanding
The rabbi permits sending people to their deaths knowingly as “near-intentional” murder when
it is intended to save the collapse of the banks and business owners and the economic system practiced in the State of Israel.

In other words, the rabbi permitted decision-makers to override “thou shalt not murder” so that the economic theses of certain economists from the previous century do not turn out to be those that do not stand the test of reality when it includes a pandemic.

The rabbi does not base his words on the Torah at all when he decided that life according to the economic thesis in question is “normal life of society” which, because they are normal, “justifies risking life”. The rabbi has not provided any evidence that this is a “normal life.” He simply states or assumes that it is.

The rabbi does not even hint at the fact that this “normal life” is contrary to the Torah.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

I don't usually lie, so I don't see why I should mention that it is contrary to the Torah. There is not and has never been a single rabbi in the world who disagrees on this. I explained that there is also a piko”n in this and that it is permissible regardless of the piko”n. But you are being so adamant without any basis (as I just pointed out to you in a parallel thread). Good luck.

הפוסק האחרון replied 6 years ago

If so, then Hitler, who was careful to save Germany and sent 6 million Jews to their deaths in order to save the German economy from collapse and the German people from humiliation, is actually a kind of righteous man.

And it seems that the rabbi would have allowed the tyrant to turn to the rabbi for advice or a ruling on the matter of whether it is permissible to send Jews to crematoria and gas chambers, because what is at stake is saving the German economy and returning German life to normality according to their perception. And it does not matter whether their perception is right or wrong, because there is not a single rabbi who opposes it.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

exactly.

הפוסק האחרון replied 6 years ago

This is what the prophet warns about

He answered, "For this people draw near to Me with their mouth and with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of Me is a commandment taught by men. Therefore, behold, I will continue to do wonders to this people, wonders and wonders, and the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men will be hidden."

And the Corona virus has come to reveal the truth.

ג' replied 6 years ago

And to reveal this truth here on the site, you can pay with human life by faithfully reporting the Corona virus.

הפוסק האחרון replied 6 years ago

A man's spirit, he will be consumed by his illness.
The spirit of Debra will endure like a priest.

ג' replied 6 years ago

The cynicism of the fools in the way of the stubborn one who guards his soul will recognize it.
Sarcastically, he is a joker in a way that is hard to understand. He knows her.

הפוסק האחרון replied 6 years ago

I brought something nice that I saw in the translation מהמלחו = קורוניה and saw Rashi instead.
Cold sores are 328 and Corona is 367 so it doesn't work out

ג' replied 6 years ago

Listen, it turns out you're just a nice guy and I treated you with excessive aggression. I won't continue with this mistake.

ג' replied 6 years ago

One last thing. This verse itself is also tainted with witchcraft. The verse says, “A man’s spirit can sustain him from his illness, and a crushed spirit who can bear it?” Interpretation: A person’s spirit can enable him to endure even physical ailments (or just motivation, or actual medicine like a placebo), but if the spirit itself is crushed and oppressed, then who can bear it? Such a connection is as bewitched as Torah study can sustain the world.

Leave a Reply

Back to top button