Obligation to pray in public
Regardless of the discussions on the subject of prayer in the era of Corona. Do you think that praying in public is a halakhic obligation from the principle of the law or just a kind of compilation of the commandments of prayer?
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Hello,
I didn't quite understand –
What about Kaddish, Kedusha, Bracho, reading from the Torah scroll, Birkat Kohanim, Chazrat Shatz and other elements that exist in prayer in a minyan?
And what about the matter of a “minyan” (ten people)?
Aren't all of these needed and is praying alone sufficient?
All of these are, at most, obligatory for those praying in a minyan. Those praying individually are not obligated to do so.
I have to understand something
Is it obligatory from the Torah to pray in a minyan?
If I want to pray alone, will the prayer not be accepted?
Is it forbidden to pray alone?
Thank you
Is it obligatory from the Torah to ‘understand something’?
If I want not to understand, will my obligation not be fulfilled?
Is it forbidden to not understand something?
Thank you
Danny. You seem really excited. I answered that question exactly.
Where did you answer? I didn't see an answer to the question.
Sorry if I'm being rude.
I don't mean to share in the prayer
I'm just asking in general whether when I pray alone is the prayer accepted?
Or is it forbidden by the Torah to pray alone?
Thank you and sorry if I missed something I probably didn't understand. Please reply.
Rabbi, I wanted to ask, if I stand at home and open the window towards a place where I can hear the minyan praying outside in one place, but they cannot see me and I cannot see them. So as far as I know, it is possible to fulfill my obligation to punish artists and sanctity because even an iron partition does not separate Israel from their Father in Heaven.
But it is not clear that I would be considered a public worshiper.
So, in your opinion, is there any point in doing this?
Because I understand your words correctly, all the obligations of artists are because of public prayer, but here I am only putting myself in a position of obligation when the essence of the virtue does not exist at all?
C”l because **if** I understand correctly ….
Hello Danny.
This was the question at the beginning of the thread and I answered it in the first response. I wrote there that in my opinion there is no halakhic obligation to pray in a minyan.
The question of whether or not the prayer is accepted is left to God. I don't think anyone knows how to answer such questions. I assume that if you act according to the law and pray, God is supposed to accept your prayer.
The question of whether it is from the Torah or not is irrelevant. All prayer law, in most systems, is from the rabbis.
Y’,
For a summary of the laws, see here: https://ph.yhb.org.il/02-02-09/
The statement about an iron partition is about the matter of the need of a person and not about joining.
As a rule, if there is no eye contact and you are not in a place that is defined as being one with the place of the minyan, you do not join.
If the minyan is in the parking lot of a building, and you are in one of the apartments, there may be a place to say that you join even without eye contact (when there are ten without you) because the building, the yard, and the parking lot are one area.
First of all, thank you for the answer
I thought that praying in the first place was from the Torah
That's why I asked if it was possible to pray at home and whether the prayer "counts"
Because according to a Google search, every rabbi answers that one "must" pray in minyan
I didn't know that praying in the first place was from the rabbis
So if I understand correctly, this whole issue of prayer is not from the Torah and there is no obligation to pray?
Thank you
I get the impression that you are not familiar with the halakhic categories. There are obligations from the Torah and there are obligations from the rabbis, and both are halakhically binding. The Rambam believes that the obligation to pray is from the Torah and the Rambam believes that it is from the rabbis, but there is no dispute that one must pray.
Thank you very much, but my situation is a bit more complicated, so I'm curious what you think about combining in this case:
I am in a building across from the garden of the building where people pray. And between the two buildings runs a pedestrian path for the Rabbi, so there is absolutely no connection between them.
Now I can't see the ten people in the garden, and they can't see me, but I can see the people praying in the apartments of the building that is attached to the garden. Because I'm standing in my window at home right across from them. And they are supposedly more likely to join the minyan. So if they can be seen as joining the minyan, can I also join because of eye contact with them?
I think so. If they are attached then you have eye contact with part of the minyan and that's enough.
Excuse me, but the things said above are not supported by the poskim, neither Rambam, nor Shulchan Aruch, nor Rishonim and Achronim.
Even if the prayer is from rabbis, I have not seen any rabbi who said that it is permissible to pray alone from the beginning, unless it is a special situation or a time of need.
What are the sources on which the rabbi bases his/her argument?
This has nothing to do with the question of whether prayer is rabbinical or Torah. Here we are talking about prayer in a minyan, which is a completely different question. If you haven't seen any rabbis say that it is permissible to pray in groups, you probably haven't looked at the Gemara and the Poskim. What is usually written is that it is appropriate to pray in a minyan, not that it is obligatory to do so. A regular halachic obligation is not postponed in times of stress or special situations.
See briefly here: https://www.etzion.org.il/he/halakha/orach-chaim/prayer-and-blessings/%D7%AA%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%91%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F
And there is much more, of course.
I wrote ‘individuals from the beginning’, meaning that this is a normal and acceptable situation, but even though there are certain situations where one can be lenient and pray in individual prayers, this is not a desirable situation according to the Talmud and the poskim.
Does the rabbi have poskim who say that it is permissible to pray in individual prayers from the beginning? That was actually my question.
Ariel, I answered that very clearly. I'm done.
Why doesn't the rabbi want to answer my question?
We both agree that praying alone is not an ideal situation, but if the rabbi meant that there is no halakhic obligation such as saying "it is better not to" then I'll leave it at that, and if the rabbi meant that it is permissible from the start, I asked for sources on that and did not receive any.
Ariel, the Rabbi answered you with a link.
By the way, for the answer (below 🙂
1. It is possible for Rabbi Feinstein to divide between “heard” and ”accepted” so that even according to his method there would be no obligation in the minyan and the akhmal.
2. Not definitively closed, but the Maimonides‘s language ‘need’ is also not clear that it is obligatory, but rather appropriate and very worthwhile. For example:
Halacha 16
How is it intended that he should clear his heart of all thoughts and see himself as if he were standing before the Divine Presence? Therefore, he should *need* to sit a little before prayer in order to prepare his heart, and then he should pray calmly and with supplications, and not perform his prayer as if he were carrying a burden and throwing it away and walking away? Therefore, he should *need* to sit a little after prayer and then he should dismiss the early Hasidim who would stay one hour before prayer and one hour after prayer, and would extend the prayer by an hour.
I do not know, and you are invited to update me, that my people practiced obligatory in this, and I also saw that the Rambam uses the word obligatory when it is required for this, meaning necessary and not obligatory.
3. In any case, the Shul in one place will endeavor against the need to return to prayer in minyan, when he also knows how to use the language "must" when required (for example: "the evening prayer that is prayed at night, his companion must wait for him"). The language "must" and "must" is found to eliminate the contradiction in the Shul = "will endeavor," very important, to the point that a person should feel that he needs to, but not obligated.
Hello Rabbi Michi, regarding the main discussion here about whether praying with the minyan is obligatory, what would you answer to the opinion that says that it is limited to praying with the minyan, and that it is explained by the fact that one has to go to great lengths to pray with the minyan?
Says it's an assessment of what is expected of me and not what I owe.
Says this is what is expected of a person and not what he owes
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