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On the physical evidence based on the ‘laws of nature’ that brought about the complexity

שו”תCategory: faithOn the physical evidence based on the ‘laws of nature’ that brought about the complexity
asked 5 years ago

In the first book you cite the words of Darwinists who refuted the evidence of design because the system of constraints in nature [mutation, natural selection, etc.] is a built-in cause that causes products to improve and become stronger, like the parable of the drunkard who randomly falls into a ditch, etc.
And you rejected this by reworking the proof, that the evidence is not from planning but from the laws that brought about this planned situation.
And I didn’t understand the evidence. Isn’t the natural state that the strongest survives not some law that cannot be created randomly? It’s an elementary thing that should be created by itself, given that there will be life on earth? It’s clear to everyone that when there are creatures – the weak can survive less than the strong, so that there is an external system of constraints that improves the creatures over the generations. What does this indicate about wisdom and complexity that can be used to provide evidence of planning? What wise law are you talking about?


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מיכי Staff answered 5 years ago
I explained there that without the specific system of laws of our world, such complex creatures would not have been created. I also explained that without genetics, for example, even if there were natural selection, it would have become extinct immediately and started over. Therefore, it is not true that the remnant is enough to explain the formation of complex systems. See more detail in God Playing Dice and in the summary article here on the site.

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אליעזר replied 5 years ago

The genetics you gave as an example is not a law but a complex system of any kind, and even that itself can be understood in the process of natural selection, which until it developed, the strong were unable to pass on their strength to their offspring, so that reality forced creatures to develop a genetic system in order to survive, and so it was, without any planning.
You could argue that this is unlikely, but if you agree that the constraints of nature are a reason to select the more complex and better systems, there is no evidence here.

מיכי Staff replied 5 years ago

Genetics are not created by a process of natural selection. Law systems are not created by natural selection.

נור replied 5 years ago

It is possible that the Big Bang is not unique in its kind and that in billions of galaxies no laws have evolved. The complexity of the laws does not mean that there is no chance that they will exist, but that the chance is remote. It is truly possible that out of the millions of "bangs", only our universe has these laws, and in others, living species did not survive due to the lack of laws.

מיכי Staff replied 5 years ago

I answered this in detail in my books God Plays Dice and also in the First Precept. First, even if universes are created, there is a mechanism that creates them, and it itself requires explanation. God could be an explanation for this. And beyond that, since we have not seen all the explosions that create universes with other sets of laws, this hypothesis has no basis, nor is it plausible because if we have not seen them, then they probably do not exist. It is always possible to explode theoretical possibilities and reject a theoretical conclusion. Every strange and rare event can always be explained by such a theory.

נור replied 5 years ago

What creates them could be primordial matter.

I agree that the theory is baseless

מיכי Staff replied 5 years ago

Precursor matter creates nothing.

נור replied 5 years ago

Is the wording problematic?! ”What they were created from is primeval matter”.
But I haven't had time to read the physico-theological evidence yet, so if it's explained I'll read it there.

אליעזר replied 5 years ago

You wrote: “Genetics is not created by a process of natural selection. Systems of laws are not created by natural selection”.
I didn't understand why, a creature whose emergence was without the possibility of passing on its strength to its offspring was less likely to survive, while a creature in which, during the course of experiments, a gene system was created that is inherited by the offspring, managed to establish its strength and pass it on.
Genetics is a mechanism, not a law, and a mechanism is something that can develop according to the evolutionary model.
In short, I don't understand what you wrote.

מיכי Staff replied 5 years ago

It doesn't matter. So biology or physics are not created by an evolutionary process. Genetics wouldn't have been possible anyway. We always assume a framework of laws behind the process, and the fundamental laws (as opposed to the mechanisms within them) have no evolutionary explanation.

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